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Vibration — Parallax Forums

Vibration

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2001-02-23 23:21 in General Discussion
I have been using Stamps and Scenix chips for the better part of
two years, and I have a number of apps up and running.

However, I have just been talking to a friend who wants to
measure vibration in machinery, and I have been unable to
find any mention of such an app in any of the lists of apps
for the Stamp or elsewhere.

Could anyone out there point me in the right direction for
perhaps choosing what chips might be able to measure
strain and.or vibration?

Any help gratefully received.

JP Harrison

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-21 21:02
    I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    wave generated from a bearing.

    What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.

    I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    could help me out here.

    Thanx in advance......JP Harrison
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-21 21:33
    An audio mike tunned for frequency and/or noise level of a bad bearing
    may be a starting point.
    ACJacques

    Harrison, JP wrote:
    >
    > I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    > sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    > wave generated from a bearing.
    >
    > What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    > sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    >
    > I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    > enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    > could help me out here.
    >
    > Thanx in advance......JP Harrison
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-21 22:19
    How about a piezo transducer attached to whichever is stationary, the race
    or the bearing? It would produce a voltage relative to the level of
    vibration.

    > An audio mike tunned for frequency and/or noise level of a bad bearing
    > may be a starting point.
    > ACJacques
    >
    > Harrison, JP wrote:
    > >
    > > I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    > > sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    > > wave generated from a bearing.
    > >
    > > What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    > > sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    > >
    > > I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    > > enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    > > could help me out here.
    > >
    > > Thanx in advance......JP Harrison
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-21 22:50
    Yes, that's the starting point. Now comes the difficult part....

    Say I sample the wave (actually the ADC) that vibrates at
    200-400 Hz. If the shaft is slightly out of round - it always is
    to a certain extent - then the "vibration" is what the shaft
    rotation is.

    But if the bearing is failing (broken ball, say), then there
    will be smaller amplitude vibrations of a higher frequency
    "riding" on the larger, lower frequency wave. At least, that's
    how I envision it.

    What I then need to do is to sample the wave at some frequency
    that must be at least double that of the expected higher frequency,
    which might be 2000Hz or even more.

    Has anyone done that - and what sampling rate do I need in order
    to use a Fast Fourier Transform to detect these small vibrations?

    Again, any hints or help gratefully received....JP


    How about a piezo transducer attached to whichever is stationary, the race
    or the bearing? It would produce a voltage relative to the level of
    vibration.
    > Harrison, JP wrote:
    > >
    > > I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    > > sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    > > wave generated from a bearing.
    > >
    > > What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    > > sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    > >
    > > I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    > > enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    > > could help me out here.
    > >
    > > Thanx in advance......JP Harrison
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >




    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-21 23:15
    At 02:50 PM 2/21/01 -0800, you wrote:
    Use a 'notch' filter to de-tune your RPM frequency. The remaining
    signal should be the rotational abnormalities.


    >Yes, that's the starting point. Now comes the difficult part....
    >
    >Say I sample the wave (actually the ADC) that vibrates at
    >200-400 Hz. If the shaft is slightly out of round - it always is
    >to a certain extent - then the "vibration" is what the shaft
    >rotation is.
    >
    >But if the bearing is failing (broken ball, say), then there
    >will be smaller amplitude vibrations of a higher frequency
    >"riding" on the larger, lower frequency wave. At least, that's
    >how I envision it.
    >
    >What I then need to do is to sample the wave at some frequency
    >that must be at least double that of the expected higher frequency,
    >which might be 2000Hz or even more.
    >
    >Has anyone done that - and what sampling rate do I need in order
    >to use a Fast Fourier Transform to detect these small vibrations?
    >
    >Again, any hints or help gratefully received....JP
    >
    >
    >How about a piezo transducer attached to whichever is stationary, the race
    >or the bearing? It would produce a voltage relative to the level of
    >vibration.
    > > Harrison, JP wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    > > > sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    > > > wave generated from a bearing.
    > > >
    > > > What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    > > > sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    > > >
    > > > I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    > > > enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    > > > could help me out here.
    > > >
    > > > Thanx in advance......JP Harrison




    Beau Schwabe IC Mask Designer
    National Semiconductor Network Products Division
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525 Mail Stop GA1 Norcross, GA 30071
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-21 23:32
    You're basically talking about an accelerometer (and
    it's instrumentation amplifier.)

    You'll need to collect data and perform an FFT or
    wavelett transform on it. You'll want to sample
    synchronously with the rotation of the shaft - i.e. 128
    samples/rev, or 256 samples/rev, etc. More is better -
    but more compute intensive. Keep the number of samples
    as powers of two - it makes the FFT easier.

    Ususally this sort of data is displayed as a "waterfall
    map." Frequency along the y-axis, amplitude along the z-
    axis, time along the x-axis. Of course, you'll need
    some algorithm to "decide" when something bad is
    happening with the bearings.

    Regards,

    Arlen Fletcher

    --
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety." - Benjamin Franklin
    > I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    > sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    > wave generated from a bearing.
    >
    > What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    > sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    >
    > I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    > enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    > could help me out here.
    >
    > Thanx in advance......JP Harrison
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-22 00:59
    Analog Devices ADXL202 accelerometer chip. See the technical note on the AD
    website: Using the ADXL202 Accelerometer as a Multifuncion Sensor (Tilt,
    Vibration and Shock) in Car Alarms, by Harvey Weinberg and Christoph
    Lemaire. It includes high pass filtering for shock sensing.

    Dennis

    Original Message
    From: Harrison, JP [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=CSA3OP9u1QgE7cXgb6tr76zlos4FK_btOHYCp9UEztorAgkU_3YlsNGggIFb441DQRsSS2Ud2xWhMPlbKhhrPGKczM0]jpharrison@n...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:02 PM
    To: 'basicstamps@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Vibration


    I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    wave generated from a bearing.

    What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.

    I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    could help me out here.

    Thanx in advance......JP Harrison



    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-22 01:08
    You may not need an A/D converter. See the Analog Design Tech Note: Using
    the ADXL202/SCXS210 with the Parallax Basic Stamp Module to Speed Algorithm
    Devlopment, by Harvey Weinberg. It includes code for BS1 and BS2.

    Dennis

    Original Message
    From: Harrison, JP [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=JgbL2csaLO_eXfjw2D_sYcoJmx2MYp2Zni2lGVFchNp6Gx6Jzum7nNS5f4akxFY-EWYI23C5sDUfeDjzae1o5cAIHfQjZi-7rw]jpharrison@n...[/url
    Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:02 PM
    To: 'basicstamps@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Vibration


    I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    wave generated from a bearing.

    What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.

    I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    could help me out here.

    Thanx in advance......JP Harrison



    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-22 17:09
    >I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    >sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    >wave generated from a bearing.
    >
    >What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    >sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    >
    >I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    >enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    >could help me out here.

    The BASIC Stamp, even the SX, is not the right choice to do that directly.
    Speed--you would be hard pressed to write a sampling loop fast
    enough to meet the Nyquist frequency.
    Memory--FFT and digital signal processing in general requires a
    large RAM memory array
    Computation--DSP requires a powerful number cruncher.

    It is possible you could do something very effective on the Stamp
    with preprocessing filters. For example, use analog or SC filters to
    resolve the signal into several frequency bands, and then have the
    Stamp look at the ratios. But what if the rotation rate changes;
    then all the frequencies shift up? Lock into the fundamental
    rotation frequency using a phase lock loop, and use that to clock the
    SC filters. But I guess the point is, it would take some non-trivial
    external hardware.

    -- Tracy Allen
    electronically monitored ecosystems
    http://www.emesystems.com
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-23 00:14
    The other day something was sent to me at work that I think you might be
    interested in.
    It was from Metrix Instrument Co. and is entitled "Vibration
    Instrumentation." It has some technical information on vibration
    measurement as well as various products that they sell. Metrix can be
    contacted at: sales@m... (email) or 800-638-7494 (phone) or
    www.metrix1.com (web site). Don't know how pricey they are.

    On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:02:20 -0800 "Harrison, JP"
    <jpharrison@n...> writes:
    > I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    > sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    > wave generated from a bearing.
    >
    > What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    > sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    >
    > I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    > enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    > could help me out here.
    >
    > Thanx in advance......JP Harrison
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-23 20:28
    HI: some years ago i used a contact mic (swiped from wifes elect guitar) on bearing housing with op-amp·to listen to a high failure bearing assembly, the tone would have a "missing pulse" when the bearing started to fail.· detected by the lowly LM555 which triggered an alarm. The shaft speed varied from 0 RPM to 30,000 rpm.· Very messy when bearing failed, not mention cost.
    ··· Carl·· see dot oddball dots martin
    c.oddball.martin@worldnet.att.net
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2001-02-23 23:21
    If you would like some information and a complete circuit design to
    accomplish this. Please contact me directly @
    dreamsystems@c...


    ~\/~
    (@ @)
    ______ooO_( )_Ooo_______________________________________
    "If we all did the things that we are capable of doing,
    we would literally astound ourselves."
    Thomas A. Edison
    ______oo0_____0oo_______________________________________



    Sincerely;

    Stephen Holt

    http://the-interface.org/

    Original Message
    From: agarb@j... [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=NBNPje9cQh3gYjsq7jFk4tCPJe2_zgMeTivEfIKEN5VNtOgIli9FtRRvmq-gNQfn23e2dTUr764]agarb@j...[/url
    Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:15 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Vibration

    The other day something was sent to me at work that I think you might be
    interested in.
    It was from Metrix Instrument Co. and is entitled "Vibration
    Instrumentation." It has some technical information on vibration
    measurement as well as various products that they sell. Metrix can be
    contacted at: sales@m... (email) or 800-638-7494 (phone) or
    www.metrix1.com (web site). Don't know how pricey they are.

    On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:02:20 -0800 "Harrison, JP"
    <jpharrison@n...> writes:
    > I am looking at the possibility of using some sort of vibration
    > sensor, interfacing it to an A/D converter, and capturing the
    > wave generated from a bearing.
    >
    > What I'd like to do is to sense when the bearing has some
    > sort of fault, typically a spalled ball bearing or a faulty race.
    >
    > I am assuming that I would have to use the SX to get high
    > enough sampling, but maybe someone who has some experience
    > could help me out here.
    >
    > Thanx in advance......JP Harrison
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >



    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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