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What's the story with PROPELLER IDE? — Parallax Forums

What's the story with PROPELLER IDE?

Hi,

The "PROPELLER IDE" application for the MAC seems to work ok, But it lacks the INDENTATION Lines that the PROPELLER TOOL uses. ( This is the main reason why i want to use the propeller tool instead of the propeller IDE)

What i look at the download page for the propeller 1 chip, there is no mention of this app?

Q1) Is it redundant?
Q2) Is anyone working on updates?
Q3) Can we get INDENTATION LINES added? just like the propeller tool?

we need a decent IDE for MAC users.

Thanks

Comments

  • I cannot get Propeller!
    IDE to work on my MAC OS Monterey.

    I get this error

    and this is my settings..

    any ideas?

    Does anyone use PropellerIDE on a MAC??
    Is the programm dead? as far as developments?
    Why does parallax not seem to care about MAC USER'S?

    I might have to give up on using Propeller chip and use something else?? Arduino??

  • BSTC is quite old. I'm thankful it still works with Windows because I need the dead code removal feature for a work project.

  • dgatelydgately Posts: 1,623
    edited 2023-01-28 02:55

    @DavidM said:
    any ideas?

    Yes, the bstc compiler is a 32-bit, X86 program that does not run on Macs for more than just a few years... The developer of bstc stopped developing and supporting the code, having lost the sources and his desire to keep it in development. You noticed that the Preferences allows a choice of compilers. The user can choose bstc or openspin. Openspin compiles P1 code just fine!

    Does anyone use PropellerIDE on a MAC??

    I used it during its development, mostly as a tester, as I had coded the the Find commands and some of the UI for SimpleIDE, that it was based on. I normally used Simple IDE for P1 programming (still do). And, now am more likely to use flexprop for P1 & P2.

    Is the program dead? as far as developments?

    Propeller IDE was an attempt to simplify P1 coding (BASIC & Spin) and provide a cross-platform solution. It started from the SimpleIDE base code. Unfortunately, the lead developer was not able to complete the IDE to his own satisfaction and was, I think, exhausted with the effort. Its code and SimpleIDE's code were based on the Qt development framework, which is "ever changing". When the Qt platform is updated (i.e. from Qt4 to Qt5, to Qt6, etc,), your code generally needs major changes.

    Why does parallax not seem to care about MAC USER'S?

    Just my $.02... We're (Mac users/developers) just a small percentage of typical Prop developers... Parallax has limited resources... Parallax resources need to support the portion of their business (Education) that allows the company to remain 'in business'. A lot of support for propeller developers is provided by the folks you see in this forum. In fact, there are programming environments that are cross-platform (flexprop, Visual Studio plug-ins that use flexprop's compiler), provided by them!

    When I have issues, the forum comes to my aid. It takes a little more work sometimes, when you're coming in from the Mac or Linux world. So, yes it can be frustrating, but not impossible.

    dgately

  • @JonnyMac said:
    BSTC is quite old. I'm thankful it still works with Windows because I need the dead code removal feature for a work project.

    Thanks John!

    I have change the compiler to "openspin" and it seems to work!

    although i did notice that declaring an OBJ i.e "FullDuplexSerial.Spin" returned an error, as it did not like the capital letter for ".Spin", this code compiled previously ( on my older make 5 years ago) without this error, but simple enough, i changed the "S" to lowercase and works fine. So i guess that openspin is case sensitive, compared to BSTC at least for filenames.
    No worries.

    I really want to get my ide working so i can get started on my DMX project and try out your DMX drivers you sent me the other day.

    Thanks
    Dave M

  • Windows filenames are not case sensitive, but I try to keep project and library my names in lowercase, anyway, just to prevent these kinds of problems from raising their ugly heads.

    Note that you do not need to specify the extension of the class (object) file; if compiling for P1, .spin is assumed; for the P2 it's .spin2 (at least in Propeller Tool).

  • Ok, Thanks

    I haven't done any programming for nearly 10 years, i am very rusty at the moment.

    I am just now trying to get my propeller demo board working?? its over 15 years old!

    I do prefer to use the extension, as it remind me i am referring to a file.

    thanks

  • @dgately said:

    @DavidM said:
    any ideas?

    Yes, the bstc compiler is a 32-bit, X86 program that does not run on Macs for more than just a few years... The developer of bstc stopped developing and supporting the code, having lost the sources and his desire to keep it in development. You noticed that the Preferences allows a choice of compilers. The user can choose bstc or openspin. Openspin compiles P1 code just fine!

    I used openspin, seems to work, thanks!

    Does anyone use PropellerIDE on a MAC??

    I used it during its development, mostly as a tester, as I had coded the the Find commands and some of the UI for SimpleIDE, that it was based on. I normally used Simple IDE for P1 programming (still do). And, now am more likely to use flexprop for P1 & P2.

    Is the program dead? as far as developments?

    Propeller IDE was an attempt to simplify P1 coding (BASIC & Spin) and provide a cross-platform solution. It started from the SimpleIDE base code. Unfortunately, the lead developer was not able to complete the IDE to his own satisfaction and was, I think, exhausted with the effort. Its code and SimpleIDE's code were based on the Qt development framework, which is "ever changing". When the Qt platform is updated (i.e. from Qt4 to Qt5, to Qt6, etc,), your code generally needs major changes.

    so in other words ITS DEAD!

    Why does parallax not seem to care about MAC USER'S?

    Just my $.02... We're (Mac users/developers) just a small percentage of typical Prop developers... Parallax has limited resources... Parallax resources need to support the portion of their business (Education) that allows the company to remain 'in business'.

    >
    there are plenty of mac users using arduino! ( not me yet??), i cannot see how mac user want to use propeller when there is little support from parallax.
    >

    A lot of support for propeller developers is provided by the folks you see in this forum. In fact, there are programming environments that are cross-platform (flexprop, Visual Studio plug-ins that use flexprop's compiler), provided by them!

    When I have issues, the forum comes to my aid. It takes a little more work sometimes, when you're coming in from the Mac or Linux world. So, yes it can be frustrating, but not impossible.

    dgately

    I am trying out visual code studio, its a bit complicated, has anyone on the mac have a setup routine for this?

  • OK, I tried many times using PROPELLERIDE on the mac, it recognises the USB porn, it will COMPILE, but IT DOES NOT WRITE the FILES to the Propeller chip!

    does any know if this app still works?

    So I tried using FLEXPROP again, and guess what it compiles and write to the eeprom!
    but there is no BUTTON to write to the eeprom, only a menu command, why is this?

    BUt the syntax highlighting and lack of customisation make me not want to use it.

  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,290
    edited 2023-01-28 07:00

    Your options right now are probably just FlexProp and VSCode. Both use the same compiler, Flexspin, and downloader (Proploader for propeller1, Loadp2 for Propeller2). EDIT: Actually, I'm guessing that VSCode uses exactly the same tools as Flexprop. I've not used VSCode myself.

  • this is ashame, i have flexprop working, but i dont like the GUI, I miss the coloured BLOCKS and the INDENTATION LINE that the proptool has. I wonder if these feature will ever be implemented.

  • @DavidM said:
    this is ashame, i have flexprop working, but i dont like the GUI, I miss the coloured BLOCKS and the INDENTATION LINE that the proptool has. I wonder if these feature will ever be implemented.

    If you are feeling adventurous, you can try my IDE here https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/174436/spin-tools-ide

  • @macca said:

    If you are feeling adventurous, you can try my IDE here https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/174436/spin-tools-ide

    Does this run on the MAC?

  • @macca said:

    @DavidM said:
    this is ashame, i have flexprop working, but i dont like the GUI, I miss the coloured BLOCKS and the INDENTATION LINE that the proptool has. I wonder if these feature will ever be implemented.

    If you are feeling adventurous, you can try my IDE here https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/174436/spin-tools-ide

    sorry, i found the MAC download link, and i am feeling adventurous!

    I will get back to you!

  • HI Macca,

    ok, I installed it, and the java runtime, all that worked ok.

    I could open up a spin1 file and view it,

    1) The Preferences menu does not appear to work.
    2) The font size is small, and for some reason the fonts look blurry.
    3) It showed some compile errors for commands that were not errors, so I could not upload to my prop chip, but if i retyped those commands, the errors disappeared, and the compile and write to eeprom worked.
    4) The INDENT LINES are good to see, but they draw over the top of the code! this could be an easy fix?

    How willing are you to complete this project?

    I think you have something very good here.
    lets talk more!
    well done!

  • @DavidM said:
    ok, I installed it, and the java runtime, all that worked ok.

    Good.

    1) The Preferences menu does not appear to work.

    Yes, that is not yet implemented.

    2) The font size is small, and for some reason the fonts look blurry.

    The default found is a generic "mono" 10pt (the same as Linux) maybe the actually selected font is not right, I'll add the preferences page with the font selection.

    3) It showed some compile errors for commands that were not errors, so I could not upload to my prop chip, but if i retyped those commands, the errors disappeared, and the compile and write to eeprom worked.

    That sometimes happens, usually adding spaces between operators fixes the error. If you can post the code portion I'll see if I can fix the parser.

    4) The INDENT LINES are good to see, but they draw over the top of the code! this could be an easy fix?

    Happened in the past and tought it was fixed, it has to do with the source formatting that sometimes gets in the middle of lines draw, if you can attach the source code (or a portion of it) that shows the problem I may be able to fix it.

    How willing are you to complete this project?

    I am willing to complete the project, and I think I'll release the source code soon, since it is the best way to get contributions and enhance few things.

    I think you have something very good here.
    lets talk more!
    well done!

    Thank you!
    Let's continue on the other thread, to keep things together.

  • @macca said:

    Hi Macca,

    Thanks for the replies, ill add my discussing in the official thread!

  • It's serendipity that the day I log in to the Parallax Forums while migrating my password keyring, I see this post. I've avoided coming on this forum for years because I wasn't sure how or whether I'd be able to face questions like this.

    It was not quite exhaustion that led to me abandoning the project. I ran out of money. =)

    I left my job for three years to try and make LameStation into a product. This led to me getting involved in a number of other projects. PropellerIDE was a big one, but there was also trying to make a Spin standard library, a bunch of GUI tools, a packaging system, a firmware loading library, a bunch of stuff! But at the end of the day, I was trying to develop this gaming handheld, develop the SDK for it, develop a curriculum around it. You could say I bit off too much, and you'd be right.

    I was able to spend so much time developing PropellerIDE because Parallax supported the effort financially, plain and simple. That work kept the lights on in my apartment for a good year and a half, and I will forever be grateful for that. Soon, however, it became clear that PropellerIDE and LameStation were facing an uphill battle in a classroom setting. Spin was competing with C and Python, in mind share, tooling, and availability of content. My hardware required lots of cabling and adapters and batteries when competitors just needed a USB cable. The LameStation was expensive! It cost twice as much to make as similar kits were being sold for. Most customers wanted something to keep a classroom busy for an afternoon, not a semester long adventure project. It took upwards of 8 hours to assemble the kit for someone who had never done it before! To top it off, PropellerIDE might never run on iPads and Chromebooks, the dominant platforms available in a classroom setting.

    PropellerIDE wasn't making a lot of sense anymore, so the project was stopped. As for LameStation, we spent the next few months shaving as much as we could off the hardware, trying to make it cheaper, smaller, doing away with self-assembly, with cables, making it rechargeable, and so on. But, I guess, maybe I was really tired, and then I just kind of stopped. I hadn't quite run out of money yet, but I might as well have. I stopped returning calls from people I used to work with. I stopped doing open source. I stopped caring. I played video games until I depleted my savings enough to force me to go back to my old job, and I did.

    The next few years are a blur for me. I was "working" but I wasn't really "creating" anything as I used to know it. I often wondered why my life was so dull, and where the excitement had gone. I hated myself, the work I had done, the future I was no longer working towards, but most of all, I hated that I failed. I felt like I had failed myself, my family, my mentors, and everyone else who believed in me and thought I could really do it. That bitterness stung for a very long time (and sometimes still does), which has made it hard to move forward.

    It's taken a long time, but I've been slowly picking up the pieces of my old life and making sense of things. I find myself more excited about building things, and contributing to open source, and reaching out to people. There have been many times over the years that I've sat down to write a post like this, and I wasn't able to. Writing this now is a testament to how much I've grown since then. I look back now and see that PropellerIDE was a part of an utterly crazy, awesome, miserable, exciting time in my life. I may not have been ready for it, but I am happy that I did it, and took that chance. Nothing can ever take that experience away from me.

    I don't know how many people will read this and even know what I'm going on about, but it feels good to have a voice again. No, I'm not going to dive into PropellerIDE again. But I'm open to talking about it. =)

  • Welcome back Brett. You are a star - keep on shining.

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