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TAQOZ for implementing a parallel bus — Parallax Forums

TAQOZ for implementing a parallel bus

Hi,
first statement: I am a TAQOZ newbie

My task: I want to realize a USB <-> 16 bit parallel bus (similar to ISA or UNIBUS) R/W interface with the Prop 2 using TAQOZ.
Some words like
SENDBUS address data
or
READBUS addres data

should write a word of 16 bit to PIN 0..15 and set also R/W PIN16 to high and also handle Address/Data line at PIN17. etc..
I know that I can easy handle each PIN with Forth, but all the documentation of TAQOZ and Assembler is for a beginner overwhelming.
So I am just looking for some hints, how to handle such a task in the most professional / elegant way.
Is bit banging of each pin the right way? Or is there some command to set 16 bit input / output as a single command?
Many thanks in advance for each reply
Markus

Comments

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713

    Is there a USB-Chip in the front end? I imagine it to be difficult to have the USB implemented, at least is will cost much more time then the chip will cost money

  • Yes, of course, I forgot to say. I want to make my first tests with the P2 evaluation board. 3.3V <-> 5V converters are already attached ...

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713

    How will the pc-side look like?

  • The PC side is an USB port and the idea is to send for example a command
    SENDBUS address data
    (as metioned in my first posting)
    If I send
    READBUS address
    I expecting a decimal or hex number back via the serial/USB line.
    I will realize the PC side in Pascal, Erlang, C, Pyton or whatever...thats not the problem.
    The question is: how to realize this on the Propeller 2.
    I could do this in SPIN, but I think Forth has already a very fast and stable command interpreter.
    Why not using it?
    So the question is, how write a word SENDBUS or READBUS in Forth? Setting or reading each single pin is possible of course,
    but I am quite sure, that this is not state of the art - but maybe I am wrong.

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713

    I believe Forth to be the solution as you can send words to P2 and so dynamically program a solution. On the other hand it could be useful to program the PC in Forth to as then one programming paradigma can be applied and it will make sense to improve both systems by implementing words here and there. One problem I see now is that the free version of 8th has no COM interface, but that may be negociated as Ron seems to be just another Peter ;-)

  • Christof Eb.Christof Eb. Posts: 695
    edited 2022-08-13 14:19

    Hi,
    Operand goes always first onto the stack.

    Adress outb cog!
    To set the adress on port B.

    Do some bit banging for handshake and then:

    To read 32 bits of port A and print it to the serial, I would look for something like
    Ina cog@ .
    In https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/173302/taqoz-reloaded-v2-8-word-glossary/p1

    I have not tested this.
    Good luck, Christof

  • Thanks for the hint to 8th I never heard before about it.
    I have seen serial access is possible in the Hobby+ versions.
    Have you ever used it? Is it stable? Is it worth to spend 49 bucks?
    Forth on both sides sounds sexy...

  • Hi Christof,
    thanks for your hint! It seems to work!
    INA, INB etc. are predefined in TAQOZ and cog@ and cog! work as well.
    That solve 90% of my problem - the rest is hard work...
    Markus

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713

    I can forward a licence, could you send a pm?

  • is it legal?

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713
    edited 2022-08-14 10:12

    sure, I'm a CEO, not a president, and in contact with ron Aaron and we work together, want to expand it. So yes!

  • bob_g4bbybob_g4bby Posts: 336
    edited 2022-08-14 10:35

    In the glossary version 65 I've added a 'Cog Register Layout' table to the section 'Cog / Hub' and added a reminder note in 'Input / Output & Smartpin Basics'.
    I also now realise that from switch on, COG7 is running as a vga controller and writing to smartpins P0 to P4 ( check this with an oscilloscope if you like). If vga display is not required, this can be turned off by the command 7 COGSTOP, leaving P0 to P31 completely free for the user. I've added a note about that.
    Still learning - Bob

  • bob_g4bbybob_g4bby Posts: 336
    edited 2022-08-16 10:47

    So today, I've been attempting to cancel the vga display that Taqoz Reloaded runs in cog 7 at switch on, so that pins P0 to P4 can be reused for something else. The vga controller outputs on pins P0 to P4. It would be handy to have P0 - P31 completely free for use, especially for bus work like here. Here's some code that I found by trial and error to work:-

    \ Stopping the VGA display controller in COG7 and reclaiming pins P0 - P4 for user programs
    \ Bob Edwards Aug 2022
    
    7 RUN: COGSTOP
    
    : TEST1
    5 0 DO I PIN L I MUTE L I FLOAT LOOP
    ;
    
    : TEST2
    5 0 DO I PIN H I MUTE H I FLOAT LOOP
    ;
    
    TEST1
    
    
    

    I must admit I don't fully understand this - but it does work. It would be part of a user applications initialisation routine. The one snag is that it momentarily sets an output on P0 to P4, which may clash with anything connected to those pins.

  • Hi Bob,
    many thanks for the hint regarding the first pins. I hve read already that this pins are "abused" for VGA, but I had no idea how to disable it.
    I have read something about a "512 byte configuration space" for Taqoz - but I can't actual remember where :-(

    Hi ErNa
    I will revert to you regarding 8th. Yesterday I tried Freepascal on the PC side, with the library Synaser.pas from
    synapse.ararat.cz/doku.php/download#synaser_serial_library
    Usually this software works fine, but here it resets the P2 board, if I open /dev/ttyUSB0.
    I fear its touching RTS and DTR what could have strange results on the USB port.
    I have to check with the oscilloscope or/and Wireshark what is happening here.
    So next try with 8th ?/!

    Many thanks for all the help
    Markus

  • This is what I found (again):

    Peter Jakacki Posts: 10,193 2021-01-22 03:27 edited 2021-01-22 03:31 Flag
    @DaveJenson
    VGA on P0..P4 is enabled by default, that's why it doesn't "like" P0 :) You can change or disable the VGA config registers in page 0 (first 256 bytes). Once you use I2CPINS it will setup the pins with internal pullups and bus speed of 400kHz and then issues a restart followed by a stop.

    Next task is to find out what page 0 is

  • bob_g4bbybob_g4bby Posts: 336
    edited 2022-08-15 15:16

    I can shed light on 'page 0' - it's the area in hubram, 0 - $58 that holds various internal system settings. If taqoz_20210822 is compiled with the tool flexprop, then a listing can be produced, of which an extract shows 'page 0' - see attached text file. Amongst other things:-

    long at $20 holds the smartpin numbers assigned for the vga red green blue and horizontal sync signals - defaults to 03020100 - pins P3 to P0
    long at $24 holds the smartpin assigned to vga vertical sync signal - defaults to 4 - pin P4
    long at $28 points to the initialisation code for the vga driver

    You can read and write these locations e.g. $20 @ .L

    So - Peter's post hints at how to change the pin assignments from the default ones above - or disable the vga driver - but the 'elegant' forth code to do that isn't shown.

  • So now I have got it:

    Here some lines from taqoz.lst

                       '    *** SERIAL/VGA/KEYBOARD *** '
    0001c 007 000e1000 _BAUD        long    baud_rate
    00020 008 03020100 _VGACFG      long    $03020100       '$33323130      ' VGA RGBH pins on P48..P52 (set long to 0 to disable vga)
    00024 009 00000004          long    $04             ' VSYNCH'
    00028 00a 00000d58 _VGAINIT long    @vgainit        ' VGA code '
    0002c 00b 101cac00 _VGASET      long    round(fset)
    00030 00c 00003635 _KBCFG       long    $3635           ' PS/2 CLK,DAT' 54,53
    
    

    The data are in the HUB RAM

    Before:

    TAQOZ# lsio --- ␍␊
    [17:26:33:976] P:0000000000111111111122222222223333333333444444444455555555556666␍␊
    [17:26:33:976] P:0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123␍␊
    [17:26:33:976] ?:lllllhhhhhllhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhllhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHLhLLLLL␍␊
    [17:26:33:976] =:ddddd~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~u~ ok␍␊
    

    Here you see pull-downs at the first 5 pins for VGA output (the small ddddd)
    Now we set address $20, $24, $28 to $0000

    [18:19:28:054] TAQOZ# $20 @ .L --- $0302_0100 ok␍␊' Read Adress $20
    [18:26:36:386] TAQOZ# $20 @COG  ??? .L --- $0000_0020 ok␍␊
    [18:27:04:318] TAQOZ# $0000_0000 $20  ! ---  ok␍␊' Write $00 to address $20, $24 and $28
    [18:28:39:970] TAQOZ# $20 @ .L --- $0000_0000 ok␍␊
    [18:31:38:781] TAQOZ# $0000_0000 $28  ! ---  ok␍␊
    [18:31:45:371] TAQOZ# $24 @ .L --- $0000_0000 ok␍␊
    [18:31:56:874] TAQOZ# $28 @ .L --- $0000_0000 ok␍␊
    [18:32:02:698] TAQOZ# BACKUP BIX SUCCESS! ---  ok␍␊' Safe the new binary to the SD card
    

    REBOOT

    [18:33:34:725] TAQOZ# lsio --- ␍␊
    [18:35:58:975] P:0000000000111111111122222222223333333333444444444455555555556666␍␊
    [18:35:58:975] P:0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123␍␊
    [18:35:58:975] ?:lllllhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhllllhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHhLLLLL␍␊
    [18:35:58:975] =:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~u~ ok␍␊
    
    

    Now the pull downs are gone...

  • bob_g4bbybob_g4bby Posts: 336
    edited 2022-08-15 17:34

    Brilliant! I had wondered about illegal settings being the key. You've cracked it. I'll stick a note/attribution in the glossary after testing it out.

  • Hi,
    I am some steps further learning Taquz, 8th etc.
    I am now able to toggle pins and words (at least seen on my osszi)
    but I have problems to read some data.

    If I try to read in one pin I get an u instead a h or H with lsio.
    At the input of the Propeller 2 (Pinheader 2 of the P2 Eval board Rev. B PIN 15) there are 3.3 V.

    0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123␍␊
    [17:57:36:556] ?:hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHhLLLLL␍␊
    [17:57:36:556] =:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~u~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~u~ ok␍␊
    
    

    With 0V I get the following answer.

    [17:57:36:556] TAQOZ# lsio --- ␍␊
    [18:09:26:126] P:0000000000111111111122222222223333333333444444444455555555556666␍␊
    [18:09:26:126] P:0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123␍␊
    [18:09:26:126] ?:hhhhhhhhhhhhhhlhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHhLLLLL␍␊
    [18:09:26:126] =:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~u~ ok␍␊
    

    I have at the inputs TI TXS0108E level converters (bidirectional), because I want to interface an old 5V bus.
    I assume / fear u = undefined? . Its not described in debug.twc .
    The glossary sais: lsio : display all 64 pins states, high low etc
    LatiN: et cetera = and so many other opinions and options ;-)
    Any pullups or pulldowns required? Any further IO configuration necessary?

    Regards
    Markus

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713

    Happy to see progress, still busy doing other stuff.

  • Hi everybody,

    I am some steps further, but TAQOZ keeps still many many questions open.
    II try to learn some common patterns from the TAQOZ source, but for a FORTH beginner its not so easy.

    I the source code of TAQOZ I see quite often in the beginning of a file the lines:

    TAQOZ
    IFDEF *MANDELBROT*
        Cx org
        FORGET *MANDELBROT*
    }
    
    

    I read the few lines in Word Glossary about the word TAQOZ, and tried to understand it, but for what is the

    Cx org

    command. I guess to start the word *MANDELBROT* but how to do it?
    I tried to use the command TAQOZ for my own bigger word (1000+ lines, mainly data), but I was not able to run it.
    Any help or explanation appreciated.

    Markus

  • bob_g4bbybob_g4bby Posts: 336
    edited 2022-09-26 09:23

    The code above can be determined by using ctrl F in the Taqoz glossary to look up the words, but here's my explanation:-

    IFDEF looks for the word *MANDELBROT* in the dictionary. If it is there ( the mandelbrot program has already been compiled into memory ), it executes FORGET *MANDELBROT* , which deletes all code since and including the word *MANDELBROT* from memory. This avoids the build up of old copies of the compiled code, every time it is recompiled after fixing a bug. So it's a useful phrase for anyone developing code. You notice the word *MANDELBROT* defined around line 6 just prints the programs title - it's just a marker word. It could be any name you like.

    Similarly, before the MANDELBROT code is erased, Cx org, resets a data pointer back to what it was before the MANDELBROT code was compiled - you notice that Cx is defined as a long in the MANDELBROT code around line 33. If this were not included another block of variables would be defined in memory every time MANDELBROT was loaded.

    In summary, the code allows MANDELBROT to be repeatedly loaded into memory, without free memory being used up by copies of program and data.

    Having multiple copies of a word in memory is otherwise ok. When that word is looked up in the dictionary during a word definition, only the latest copy will be found, as the dictionary is searched in latest to earliest order.

    When compiling forth source code the process is very simple like assembling assembly language - a word is either a number or it's a call to a procedure, which then returns. These numbers and calls are threaded together like beads to make your program.

    It's best to keep forth definitions very short, so that they can be individually debugged by manually putting input parameters on the stack, executing the new word and looking at output parameters left on the stack. Sounds like you need to split your 1000+ line definition into code and data file and start debugging by using much less data.

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713
    edited 2022-09-26 09:46

    Would have been appropriate to read bob's post before posting myself :-(

    org   ( adr -- )             X    PUB  Set the data origin for DS style data memory allocation
    DS    ( bytes <name> -- )    XI   PRE    Create a constant with the current value of the ORG then advance it by bytes for next DS
    (FORGET) ( nfa -- )          PUB     Forget the word with this nfa
    NFA  ( <word> -- )        H   PRE  Compile the name field address into code memory
    

    Yes, hard to understand if you are not familiar with Peter's way of thinking ;-) The glossary needs additional comments that explain how the environment looks like, ...

    I assume the piece of code is the start of the new word MANDELBROT so the old one has to be deleted first

    Forget needs the nfa (name field address) of the word to forget.

    So IFDEF may result in the nfa in a special register Cx ?
    My hope is, once I finally begin using TAQOZ, I'll dive more and more into it and gain some basic knowledge. But it is hard ;-)

    Maybe someone can help when you show your code as it should work

  • Hi Bob, Hi ErNa,

    many thanks for the explanations. Multiple defined words are really confusing. I didn't know that TAQOZ will call the latest version, thats helpful,
    but the FORGET construct shold save me here.
    I thinks thats quite important and should be clearly noticed in the doku!

    Sounds like you need to split your 1000+ line definition into code and data file and start debugging by using much less data.

    Yes, I guess that will be the next step.

    Thanks so far again.
    Markus

  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,713

    As I think about it: it should be a nice feature. When developing a word, there is just a second entry, it can be FORGET and the latest version will now be the curren?

  • As far as I understood it behaves exactly this manner.

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