Is Fluke "quality" just hype?
Mickster
Posts: 2,611
Need a new DMM. Had Fluke back in the 80's and loved the build quality but there are soo many nice meters (apparently) today. Was about to pull the trigger on another Fluke but then I came across a relative cheapie that has a pretty darned good spec.
Comments
Care to share the link?
I am worried that a Fluke would only be a temporary possession.
http://testmeterpro.com/proster-vc99/
1. Not holding calibration or being able to be recalibrated. I have had some of the really cheap meters (Harbor Freight, I'm looking at you) get shockingly wrong while appearing to still appear to be working.
2. Poor filtering or update rate, which aren't noted in the specs. Flukes tend to have a pretty good update rate capable of blipping on just a few 9600 baud RS232 characters; one meter I got (for nearly $100, even) only updated about twice a second. This is a big problem when measuring dynamic signals.
If you take your Fluke to a certified lab they can not only test it, they can restore it to factory calibration. This is much cheaper than a new meter. Off-brand meters are pretty much disposable.
UPDATE: On reading the review, does look like update rate is poor, particularly for auto-ranging and capacitance (which is inherently a dynamic reading). For about the same price you can get the bottom of the line Klein meter from Home Depot and it will probably perform a lot better. I have the two bottom-end Kleins, one auto-ranging and the cheaper one not, and I actually prefer the non-auto-ranging one. (Note that these meters are marketed to electricians and while they have small signal ranges they default to AC.)
"Transistor hFE: . . . Transistors are inserted into the test device, or you can test in-situ via the probes."
I comes with two probes, so you won't get a direct hFE reading using them. You'll have to measure the base and emitter currents separately, with a separate power supply and base resistor, then do a division.
-Phil
Or am I in for a more expensive Xmas gift
The DMMs I have are not as cheap as the one you linked, but also not as expensive as similarly spec'd Flukes.
https://www.amazon.com/EEVblog-BM235-Brymen-Multimeter/dp/B01JZ1ADCO
https://www.amazon.com/EEVblog-121GW-Multimeter/dp/B07W8C3T3J
Very happy with both, but really like the feature set of the 121GW. Yes, I am a EEVBlog fan, and I trust Dave's take on DMMs.
Yeah, pretty much live with 3-phase and also 400V DC :skull:
Thanks, Roy. I'm glad I asked the question. Need to study some more.
There are teardowns online which show the guts of some of the no-brand meters. Some/most of them do not have the safety features (no matter what they claim) that are needed when working with high voltages and currents.
IIRC Dave on the Eevblog and Clive of Bigclive fame have done some of them.
1) I would never let any of my engineers or technicians work on high voltage with anything less than a Fluke.
2) My personal meter of choice at home and for my side job of occasional breaker box or sub panel installs is a Fluke 87V.
Bonus loose change: when we have our Flukes sent out for annual calibration, they pretty much never require adjustments to maintain spec. Other meters, including HP/Agilent, occasionally need one pot fine tuned.
I was not aware that Fluke had been bought out, they just recently have been buying up many biomedical imaging companies that produeced test equipment like Keithley, test phantoms like Nuclear Associates on the imaging side, and others on the biomedical side). And upping the prices.
@"WBA Consulting" : the volume of devices we have in a 20 person biomed shop handling in house biomed and imaging makes bringing in BC Technical on site for a week to calibrate everything a good deal. Their guy comes on site with his whole test setup and standards and that is all he does for that time.
eidted to refer to EEV blog #84
Buy outs in the medical and research instrumentation areas has been going on for many years. The typical modus operandi is to buy out the company, lay off 20-30% of the employees, cut salaries of the remaining employees by the same 20-30%, and still expect them to produce the same or more work and income that the full complement did. Been there and seen that, so not surprised that the quality and safety of the equipment is in decline.
accuracy and have to be sent out to be recheck every year
I have been using one of these amp clamp head
with this meters
Fieldpiece Instruments
EHDL1 - Electronic Handle ( this meter has been discontinued )
I also have another volt meter that I have from them I can not find it anymore online
So I have had to buy a Fluke Meter that has Bluetooth capability for remote monitoring when working on overhead cranes and machine that are hard to access
Also we have had a lot of changes in the way we can troubleshooting techniques have also been changed ( some of these changes I have been doing for along time already but some of them I have get in habit of doing each time I am working on voltages higher than 120 volts AC )
In other words you can NOT use meter leads to check voltages above 120 volts AC that you are holding on to with OUT arc flash protection in full use ( they would prefer you not have to do it this way )
I have doing this part for years in that I will hook up wires to the item that is under test with the power disconnect and verify by looking in the disconnect box to make sure that all fingers are in the OPEN position before any work is started ( or if it has only a breaker that all LEGs
have “0” volts to ground )
The voltage range that I have to work with is 3 volts DC to 24 volts DC ( VFD drive voltages outputs this is done with care )
The voltage range that I have to work with is 24 volts AC to 480 volts AC ( 3 phase )
As a time-served electrician who has been handling 3-phase for many years, the thing that horrified me the most was my first visit to the US from the UK. I'd forgotten to bring an AC adapter to this hotel in the middle of nowhere TN. All I had to do was detach the UK plug and shove the live & neutral into two holes in the AC outlet. Could there be a more dangerous design? And don't get me started on those wire-nut thingies.
Yet those of us who are trained and experienced are assumed to have no common sense and therefore need to be more cautious? I am frequently in close proximity to high voltage and the least of my worries is when I'm using the test meter because this is when I know that I'm about to be making contact with a high voltage.
Some time ago, I visited John Deere to troubleshoot an issue with a 24v proximity sensor on my own equipment. Their H&S policy dictated that I wear a fire-proof suit and ridiculously restrictive steel "toe-tectors". I could hardly move!
If they'd had a fire emergency, I'd have been the last one out due to this ridiculous garb.
But back at home, a toddler can be tugging on some cheap, frayed power cord or sticking a knife in a power outlet or grabbing those cleaning chemicals from under the sink.
In the workplace, "safety" has become our own version of PC.
No eye/ear protection required but one must be wearing a Hi-viz vest (they have one fork truck and it never moves from the load/unload Dock). Just a bunch of people operating production machinery.
Sounds like a very dangerous place to work in
Have they fix this problem
We have a machine that the plate sensor malfunction and was reporting a plate detected when no plate there I would NOT let them run the machine that way because it will destroy the pusher cylinder threaded end and tear off the bearings on pusher assemble
And of course they complain about production but it is what it is
Dose anyone follow this
That depends on what and what is to much case in point—>
Where I work some of what they call “safety” I sometimes wonder if we can still do our work safely
Some of the “safety” items we have made some jobs take a lot longer to complete ( but then they ask the question why are these jobs taking so long to do ) “really”—> they should know the answer to this question already
The only hot drink on the floor is mine. I have a kettle right next to my desk. I carry my own liability insurance and my work area is cordoned-off. I even have my own portable red, flashing lights to warn people of potential danger. Management don't mess with me, I am saving them a ton of money and I'm the only game in town (entire country, actually).
There is no way that I will turn this machine over to production without adequate safety coverage and it ain't gonna be the hokey optical device. I will install 4-wire safety mats. My preference is a SICK laser scanner but they balked at the cost.
I have a huge opportunity to really milk the safety issue because, inspite of these machines being fitted with "approved safety sensors", all they do is halt the machine motion (pause). Personnel are now under the misconception that it's safe to approach the machine and proceed to stick their digits in all kinds of finger-chopping areas.
In the US, we had a "Zero Energy Hold" system where all forms of energy were blocked; servo-drives disabled, hydraulic and pneumatic lines blocked. I already have a retrofittable ZEH package planned but have yet to announce it. Who could refuse it? :cool:
I find your post very interesting
The only way I get our management team to not use a machine that is malfunction to a certain point ( meaning that is still works but not exactly right but could you limp it until I get the parts to fix it right —> sometimes I can do this but not always ) is tell them that if you use it could tear it self apart and I not going to be responsible for what happens next
This must be nice
I do not blame you for that one I would not either
We have a machine that one day the light bar was not working correctly and they wanted me to bypass it NO this not going to happen it turned out to be that the power supply / communication cable had a piece of metal stuck in it
This happens all the time they want the cheapest way to do something
I do not understand why people have this misconception that if you trip the
( light bar is only a pause ) then it safe to do things to the machine I have reminded the machine operators of this fact that only when you hit “ E “ STOP that you have disabled parts of the machine but not all of it ( CNC controller is waiting for a enable command )
You get someone that does not want to pay for the cost of a system like that
Others above have listed all the excellent reasons to spend the cash for Fluke.
I must agree.
Two things I trust, 100%: Fluke test instruments and Michelin tires.
Actually there are a lot of companies that can refuse it. Safety costs money. Somewhere someone calculates the cost of the safety versus risk exposure and the decision is made. Of all the CT systems that I work on, there is only one with a table that will stop with minimal downward pressure applied to anything trapped under it with a series of touch sensors on the underside. The rest will apply considerable weight before stopping.
Same thing for test equipment. I would put a fluke 287 across 480 with proper leads, but turn off, clip on the leads, turn on and measure. The287 does have an optical IF, but cable is rather short. Stay close to the thing to read it or trigger the record function and review after power off of the tested device. RaySafe dose meter has bluetooth. I use it and never need to be in the room when radiating. For any reason.
But seriously, not just meters, good test devices are rather cheaper by far than another life/health/accident policy (which may balk at paying out if you did something really stupid .....)
Gotta say, with all respect that the safety concerns are unfounded.
The trade has relied on PVC tape since forever and it has a dielectric strength of >1000v/mil. 3M tape is 7mil.
It seems to me, based on the above reports that they just want to keep people away from dangerous voltages.
After learning that a spare fuse for a Fluke meter costs $40+, I am convinced that they are selling a name. "No one got fired for buying IBM".
If Fluke were in the PVC tape business it would sell for a hundred bucks/roll and many would swear that they would never use anything else.
I am the worst for convincing myself to go for quality kit; I have lots of KNIPEX and Wera and so I had also sold myself on a new Fluke....but which one?
I found a site that only evaluated/compared Flukes to help me decide. I was disappointed to find that the "Pros" and "Cons" read just like any other meter. "Accuracy not great", "Slow to respond".
I kinda suspect that in the past, Fluke went to great lengths to source tight tolerance components and each product went through extensive testing and calibration but newer technologies have made this unnecessary.
A $10 Casio keeps better time than a $25,000 Rolex.
One note you have to try to connect the device a few times before your device is recognized by your phone or tablet devices
But what I do not like about Fluke Bluetooth devices is yes you can read it from a distance BUT if you want to data log your results you have to buy this feature for $249.00 a year to be able to use it
Now there is a free version BUT it very limited in what you can do with it you can record it but you can not save it and you cannot play it back which sucks big time
The problem is that I got to use it for 30 days for free the full version of when I first bought this meter it nice but I would only probably use a couple times a year and would probably be it ( and NO way would my employer would pay for something that I might use a couple times a year )
Now there are other meter manufacturers out there but the problem with some of them is that the Bluetooth device either will not work with some phones or tablets and you do not know if it going to work until you buy it
This happen to me once and it said that would work on Apple devices but I could not get it to work and I even google the company that made the device and there were a lot of complaints about there Bluetooth devices not wanting to connect ( I return it the same day that I bought it ) the name of the company that made the device was in the manual not on the plastic packaging
Now if someone is out there that knows another company that makes a Bluetooth meter device that ( will work with a Apple devices ) that has data logging features that do not cost anything or cost very little a year I would greatly appreciate it if you would share this information
I would use it at work once I verify that the device is working correctly and just want to data log the results
This "renting" of software to keep your hardware usable is something I find truly despicable and will avoid at all cost. That's the biggest reason why I am a big fan of FOSS, and the fact that the source code is seen by a lot of programmers also gives me some assurance that there is no malware included.
PS, in thinking about this a bit it seems like logging bluetooth data from meters and other test equipment would be a great application for for a P2, or perhaps even a P1.