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Dalek of the Day — Parallax Forums

Dalek of the Day

ercoerco Posts: 20,256
Full props to mikeologist for steering us to this website in his thread. Many great Dalek images IMO of general interest to robot fanboys, I thought it deserved a thread of its own.

http://www.daleksoftheday.com

Comments

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  • It's neat, but Dalek's are not robots!
  • Well, they have a burnt pot roast for a brain, so at the least they are cybernetic organisms. That's likely to be the future of robots on earth, anyway. We grow some brain matter in a Petrie dish, impart some alpha waves to it so it thinks like us, and voilà! -- Instant Robot.
  • Oops, I forgot. Make it InstantRobot™. Erco is right now trying to make it all work with one motor.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    Oops, I forgot. Make it InstantRobot™. Erco is right now trying to make it all work with one motor.

    What if I only use a solenoid? Can I get credit for 1/3 of a motor, since most little DC motor armatures have 3 lobes?

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2018-03-28 18:02
    Dalek of the day from 5th August 1981:

    pixel.gif

    Edit: Poop. There is an img tag here but it does not work so here is the image:

    https://punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000ZvleumhOmDo
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2018-03-28 18:34
    Let's try again.

    Dalek Of The day 5th August 1981:

    Screenshot%20%28119%29.png
    1 x 1 - 43B
    1 x 1 - 43B
    2263 x 1285 - 768K
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Dalek i - Dalek I Love You:



  • We grow some brain matter in a Petrie dish, impart some alpha waves to it so it thinks like us, and voilà! -- Instant Robot.

    Something like this has been done with rat (rattus rat) neonatal brain cells... grown in sterile culture media on a tiny matrix of gold pins connected to instrumentation to detect the neural activity. This is not cutting edge... I remember things like this from the late 90s to the early 2000's. I do not know how far it went, but could only guess.

    I have always thought that consciousness will not be achieved with silicon, rather it will take some form of biological computation. I am no expert in this field, just my opinion. I am very interested in differing opinions, so please do not rip me apart.

    I have in the past grown neonatal rat brain cells (astroglial cells actually), it is relatively easy. However, I never grew them on gold pins. All one would need is a culture of rat brain cells (harvested from a one day old rat pup), sterile media (most expensive part of this), a glass tissue grinder (not expensive), antibiotics (bottle will last about a year in a refrigerated desiccator), cell culture flasks (radiation sterilized) and a CO2 incubator. A sterile HEPA hood with UV light sterilization would be very nice, as it will allow a much higher success rate for growing cells.

    It has been a long time since I was involved in growing mammal cells in culture, but if someone is interested in trying this, I would be happy to walk them through the process. It not that hard, none of the materials needed are expensive or hard to get (nor illegal to possess), nor dangerous. I am sure that some of the techniques have evolved, but I had very good success at growing them, about 99% success. Out of a hundred flasks, only about 1 would be bad, never with bacteria, always fungal contamination. I think that this would be a really neat thing for a serious hacker type who is really interested in biological computation to get involved in. I have a hunch that there are potential patent-able things to be found in this line of experimentation.

    Best,

    J

    Best,

    J
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2018-03-28 22:12
    Kotobuki,
    I have always thought that consciousness will not be achieved with silicon,...
    Do you have a definition of what "consciousness" actually is?

    I mean, if I build a machine, with silicon or whatever, and claim that it is "conscious" how would you evaluate it and determine if my claim is true or not?

    Or perhaps my creation claims that it is "conscious" for itself (After all, why would it need me to do that?). How would you evaluate if it's claim is true or not?

    Sorry, but I will pass on the chopping rat brain experiments.
  • Our squishy water sack bodies are not prepared for massive acceleration and space journeys lasting aeons. Therefore consciousness will find better bodies for starting to travel around.
  • Heater. wrote: »
    Kotobuki,
    I have always thought that consciousness will not be achieved with silicon,...
    Do you have a definition of what "consciousness" actually is?

    Heater,

    Thank you for your question.

    The best that I can answer you is what the academy (used) to teach in freshman philosophy: Descartes' Cogito ergo sum. "I think, therefore I am".

    Consciousness is like the supreme courts' non-definition of what pornography is... that is they famously claimed that 'they could not define pornography, but they know what it is'.

    I really cannot define it, but I know what it is. I look in my pet dog or cats' eyes, and I see consciousness. One of the defining characteristics of consciousness is self preservation. If you make a device, I can always pull the plug to the mains. The machine, unless programmed too, will not protest being turned off. A cat or dog (or human for that matter) will fight to stay alive. My ancient Panasonic CF-29 will not protest being turned off or "killed'.

    I feel that no matter how fast and powerful the silicon, that it will never achieve consciousness. Just my opinion, worth what I charge for it. Again, my opinion is that at the very least, that machine consciousness will take quantum computing.

    Then again, maybe tomorrow, I will wake up and read an announcement that Intel and Microslop have a truly conscious machine. It would not be the first time that I have been wrong.

    Best,

    J

  • Sorry for the double post, but this very question is what the movie AI was all about. I found that movie to be quite disturbing on several fronts, BTW.
  • Heater. wrote: »
    I mean, if I build a machine, with silicon or whatever, and claim that it is "conscious" how would you evaluate it and determine if my claim is true or not?

    You can't, but neither can you prove that another person is conscious. You can only know if you're conscious. It is an assumption -- possibly wrong -- that just because one feels consciousness other humans must, too.

    My feeling is that I am the only one that experiences consciousness. The rest of you are questionable.

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    My feeling is that I am the only one that experiences consciousness. The rest of you are questionable.

    I'm pleased as punch just to be a prop in Gordon's World.

  • Actually, I would rather like to have a pet Dalek, though I would insist upon it being neutered (disarmed). Then every morning as I am getting my first cup of coffee, it would insult me, and I it in return. Thus, the daily banter would help the caffeine wake up my biological computer, thus making my consciousness increase exponentially along with my wakefulness.

    Then, possibly my coding will be better, my decisions will be better and my wit sharpened in the process. Additionally, along with better coding and decision making and sharper wit, maybe my mathematical acuity would increase over time with the constant exposure to a Daleks' insults, and in the end my calculus skills will approach that of the late lamented (and cute) Adric's ability for solving complex differential equations and FFTs in his head.

    All bad humor aside, I forgot to mention that one would also need a supply of sterile one use pipettes, a motorized pipetter, and a decent stereo microscope in order to do cell culture. I have seen decent 'scopes on e-bay for not too much. I also forgot that you would need some sterile trypsin to dissolve the extracellular matrix of the brain tissue so that the cells would properly adhere to the flask. A heavy alcohol lamp would also be very helpful under the hood to flame bottle and flask mouths without melting them. And speaking of flasks, the disposable precoated flasks are the way to go, as coating the inside of flasks is an unnecessary PIA. Don't bother with getting bottle filters to sterilize media, buy the premixed and filtered media. It will save a whole lot of time because you do not need to buffer, pH or proof the media. Oh, and how could I forget, a box of disposable cell scrapers... A vortex would be nice, but not necessary. And gloves and a lab coat... (It has literally been decades since I have done this, so I think of things that I have forgotten since then.) All told, I think if someone already has a clean but not white room containing a bench with a sink, power outlets, and a vacuum source, that a decent bio lab could be had (sans HEPA hood) for about eight grand. A small used and serviced HEPA hood would be about another ten K.

    At Heater;

    I know that the idea of chopping rat brains could be disgusting, (and I won't go into my physiological reaction when I first decapitated a rat), but with the hour old pups, it is really not bad. Before anyone chastise me for doing animal model studies, we were trying to do good. Our project was to find methods to cause undifferentiated brain cells to repair and innervate damaged areas of brain tissue caused by head trauma.

    BTW, I like your avatar... I love old tube or 'hollow state' electronics.

    Best,

    J

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Gordon,
    You can't, but neither can you prove that another person is conscious. You can only know if you're conscious. It is an assumption -- possibly wrong -- that just because one feels consciousness other humans must, too.

    My feeling is that I am the only one that experiences consciousness. The rest of you are questionable.
    Strangely enough, for once, we are in agreement.

    Except for one small detail: It's me that has the consciousness, not you :)

    I think this is basically the same as Descartes' view of the situation.
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