The World's First RISC-V Open Source Microcontroller
Ken Gracey
Posts: 7,395
in Propeller 1
http://makezine.com/2016/11/30/open-v-worlds-first-risc-v-based-open-source-microcontroller/
Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Comments
More wow, Colombia is ahead of the LowRISC project in the UK.
They have my 100 dollars backing already.
A swear this will see the end of ARM in cheap embedded devices. Why licence ARM when you can just use RISC V ? Leaving ARM to the "high end" mobile phones and such.
Then working up from there....
It's not necessary that your particular implementation, in terms of Verilog, VHDL, whatever, of RISC V be open at all.
But there are are already a number of open source implementations of RISC V around.
People like the Indian government that does not want to be beholden to a foreign supplier.
People like lots of startups who don't want the expense, and more importantly the hassle, of getting ARM licenses.
Crazy people like me who dream of an open landscape for our computing world.
And yes the RISC V guys have stated they want to displace ARM and Intel. Sorry I don't have a link to such a statement.
Consider this: Not many people designing processors and other chips own their own chip fab plants anymore. Not Apple, not AMD, heck not Parallax. The chip fabs are hugely expensive and they will make whatever design you have, be it an ARM or whatever. As a little guy wanting to make some cheap widget that requires a processor what do you do? Intel is not an option. ARM is a hassle. Creating your own CPU is a huge project (See Propeller 2) RISC V is what you need.
And, you get the advantage that all the software you need is ready to go. Compilers, debuggers, etc, etc. The whole opensource software world is there to be used. That saves a ton of development effort and cost.
I'm kind of expecting this whole RISC V movement takes over the CPU world in the same way as Linux has taken over the software world.
Hmm, that seems to be a fund-raiser, not any tangible real silicon ?
RISC-V has been around a while, and there was this recent news from MicroSemi, which places Risc-V in a similar place as P2 - ie Working in a FPGA, silicon 'planned'.
http://www.microsemi.com/products/fpga-soc/soc-processors/risc-v
Microsemi also have 8051 & M1 & M3 cores, but I cannot see any Logic Usage and MHz figures given anywhere ?
If the RISC-V can fit in a smaller FPGA, for better specs than ARM, then it gets more appealing.
Err - that makes no sense.
" a little guy wanting to make some cheap widget that requires a processor " requires a physically real processor, not some illusion.
Something he can buy today, well priced, with some lifetime assurance, and tools.
He cares less about the branding, or core, or any hype at all.
If he worried about Power, he might seek out one of the new sub-threshold-process ARMs.
Intel is an option, (for some niches), and ARM is not a hassle, thousands of designs use them.
There is also MIPs and smaller cores like 8051/STM8/AVR/PIC that are real options.
What is not an option today, is RISC V - until that little guy can buy real parts, it is vaporware.
This recent news shows how easily the hype of 'ideas' can get ahead of reality, ....
http://www.watoday.com.au/technology/innovation/autodesk-boss-explains-why-3d-printing-failed-to-take-off-despite-the-hype-20161205-gt4muf.html
They want a production run so why not.
Seems they have working silicon, so more than "silicon planned". See link above.
8051, M1 and M3 are not in the picture here. How open are they? Besides RISC V is a bigger idea than an old 8 bit processor. They are expecting to go to 64 and even 128 bits!
You can already get RISC V cores to use in FPGA.
You will not get better specs than ARM for any CPU design in FPGA.
Yup, your " little guy wanting to make some cheap widget that requires a processor " can't actually make a production run, for quite some time, can he ?
Of course they are.
What does 'open' have to do with your " little guy wanting to make some cheap widget that requires a processor " - he needs parts, and he WILL be worried about price and delivery, much more than a 'open' hype label.
His accountant and customers will care even less about 'open' claims.
The 8051 has been open for many years, as have other CPUs.
Open Source tool chains are certainly not new, and they support real cores, right now.
Their buffoon level claims like this
"You'll also receive three stickers commemorating the production of the world's first truly open source microcontroller"
do little for credibility.
- but maybe their target market is not Design Engineers, but more fashionistas ?
So ?
What price will they be ?
What is the System BOM ? - I notice the first generation Silicon is RAM only, and meagre at that.
Looks to also need two regulators, and a boot memory.... (Stone soup anyone ?)
Wait up - Are those mandatory regulators and boot memory Open Source too ?! Oops...
I can buy 8051 Flash variants for under 30c, with MORE memory than this ?
I'm not sure what you thought you were saying there ?
There are a number of FPGA optimised cores, that have better specs than ARM, in FPGAs.
https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive1
This one is from SiFive, which is a Startup by the Risc-V main designers from Berkeley University.
These Arduino compatible boards ships on Dec 20.th this year if you are fast!
(the Open-V is planned for 2018).
Both chips are very pure in respect of onchip peripherals and memory (8kByte / 16 kByte RAM)
They are ment to test the Risc-V core and not as a competitor to state of the art ARM chips.
Andy
BTW: The SiFive chip is made in 180nm, like the P2 but runs with 320 MHz, mostly single cycle.
Interesting parts, but no schedule on actual devices - Just boards. They say
"Can I Purchase Just the Freedom E310 Chips?
We do plan to make the individual Freedom E310 chips available, but currently the only thing available is the Hifive1 board. There are some additional complexities associated with providing chips and support that we are working through."
Yup.
Pluses : This one at least has QuadSPI support, and they have thought about XIP use.
Minuses: No ADCs, and they make a school-boy mistake of doing 16b timers on a 32b part. ?!
Only 19 pages of overview, so no hard numbers on UARTS, Timers, SPI speeds & features.
No mention of capture, just PWM ?
There's that initial hurdle to overcome, and someone will need a lot of confidence to invest that amount of money.
ARM and Intel had it easier because they were around back when everything was larger and fabs cost (much much) less, and could just carry along as the technology (and cost) changed. RISC-V has to get there in one go if there's to be any competition. If it doesn't, it'll be just a curisiosity and something only for universities and hobbyists.
https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/11/22/esp32-c3-wifi-ble-risc-v-processor-is-pin-to-pin-compatible-with-esp8266/
"ESP32-C3 WiSoC is pin to pin compatible with ESP8266, works with ESP32 development framework (e.g. ESP-IDF), supports Wi-Fi & Bluetooth LE 5.0 connectivity, and integrates 400KB SRAM & 384KB ROM. It features a single32-bit RISC-V (RV32IMC) core @ 160 MHz, and consume as little as 5uA in deep sleep mode. Pricing will also be similar to ESP8266."
https://hackaday.com/2020/11/22/espressif-leaks-esp32-c3-a-wifi-soc-thats-risc-v-and-is-esp8266-pin-compatible/
Interesting that parts of the chip are not open-sourced!
The RISC-V is 160MHz, single core to handle everything - wifi, etc.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-BL10-WiFi-Development-Board-w-BL602-Chipest-for-Application-Development-with/393024370816?hash=item5b8213f880:g:kG8AAOSwQPtft6jU
There’s so much that could be done with just a shrink to 90 or 120nm with not changing much. A change to RISC-V would be a major redesign!
However, if we ever expect to see further P2/P3 development, Parallax will need to sell millions of P2’s!
P2 is real, so let’s help sell those millions by finding markets for those millions
https://github.com/totalspectrum/riscvp2
Now we just need a RISC-V based "Raspberry Pi" (at that price point!). That would be great. But there are still things that I plan to do that I believe the P2 can do which I can't easily do on a conventional system (I tried). Which is why I'll get myself a P2, eventually.
I run code compiled by flexspin on my RetroBlade2 so there’s no reason Eric’s riscvp2 will not run. There’s a RetroBlade2 on it’s way to eric as we speak.
https://beagleboard.org/beaglev
Your nifty RISC-V emulator could allow a softer/smoother code base transition between a BeagleV host, or a P2 Host, or even both running together.
Only very critical stuff would need to be in PASM ?
I will try, being a technical university teacher, as soon as I get it (the USPS is slow as... ) I can show this for my students (Automatics&Robotics) and the rest of the faculty staff.
And don't make P3 based on RISC V or anything else than the Propeller itself. As I can see there are a lot of things that can be upgraded in future versions without a revolution in basics. Lower process, more cogs, more HUB RAM, individual, faster CORDIC for every cog, PLL for every cog as it was in P1. The Propeller architecture is one of its kind, don't replace it with anything else.
I wish the FPGA would have more (fast, as in video timing) D/A converters.