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Butter, Margarine or Plastic Please — Parallax Forums

Butter, Margarine or Plastic Please

MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
in General Discussion
Can any of the smart people here dispute the allegation that, margarine is one molecule away from plastic?

Yum, what's for dinner?

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Comments

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    No idea really. But as far as I know they are both long chain, hydrocarbon molecules. So much the same at some level.

  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    Hydrogen peroxide is one atom away from water. If you choose to drink it, especially in its undiluted form where it can spontaneously combust upon contact with organic material, be sure to write your obituary first.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    I never eat margarine. Butter, or nothing. Olive oil sometimes. Never margarine.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2016-11-28 18:02
    I've tried for years to avoid margarine, aka hydrogenated oil, once I found out that it was made by boiling hydrogen through oil to thicken it.
    It essentially is a type of polymer. Although it may look and taste like butter, hydrogenated oil is not food.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2016-11-28 18:25
    lardom wrote: »
    hydrogenated oil is not food.

    I think this depends on how one defines "food." It's been many years since I've used margarine but I'm not sure I'd deny its status as food.
    I'd wager a person could survive longer on hydrogenated oil and water than water alone.

    If I were stuck on Mars with only water, potatoes and margarine, I'm pretty sure I'd eat a lot of margarine.

    Edit: I tried to figure out how to delete this post after I made it. I think I come across more argumentative than I feel or intend.



  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    lardom wrote: »
    It essentially is a type of polymer. Although it may look and taste like butter, hydrogenated oil is not food.



    It is good to know it's a good value for your money, you can also eat the container it comes in.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2016-11-28 19:11
    Duane Degn wrote: »

    If I were stuck on Mars with only water, potatoes and margarine, I'm pretty sure I'd eat a lot of margarine.

    Edit: I tried to figure out how to delete this post after I made it. I think I come across more argumentative than I feel or intend.

    Thanks for saying that. It is just a point of view.
    Margarine is not poison. I just say butter is better so I limit my intake.
    I also try to limit my intake of sodium chloride, aka table salt, by substituting sea salt instead.
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    Hmm.. salt is salt, it's just a question of how much other minerals are mixed in.
  • RsadeikaRsadeika Posts: 3,837
    Sea salt is produced through evaporation of ocean water or water from saltwater lakes, usually with little processing. Depending on the water source, this leaves behind certain trace minerals and elements. The minerals add flavor and color to sea salt, which also comes in a variety of coarseness levels.


    Table salt is typically mined from underground salt deposits. Table salt is more heavily processed to eliminate minerals and usually contains an additive to prevent clumping. Most table salt also has added iodine, an essential nutrient that helps maintain a healthy thyroid.

    I think that table salt with iodine would be the healthier choice, just my opinion.

    Ray
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2016-11-28 19:58
    Rsadeika wrote:
    I think that table salt with iodine would be the healthier choice, just my opinion.
    The need for iodine in salt depends on where you live. For those in the so-called "goiter belt" that encompasses much of the American Midwest, iodized salt or iodine supplements are a virtual necessity. In other areas, maybe not so much.

    -Phil
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    Rsadeika wrote: »

    I think that table salt with iodine would be the healthier choice, just my opinion.

    Ray


    I have been using sea salt for more than a few years now, but if you think about it , the worlds oceans have been a dumping area since the beginning of time. evaporation concentrates any contaminates there in.

    Most of the time the best choice is not to think about it.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2016-11-28 23:12
    lardom wrote: »
    I also try to limit my intake of sodium chloride, aka table salt, by substituting sea salt instead.

    Both are sodium chloride. Table salt is more refined, and much of it comes from sterile salt deposits where nothing has touched it for millions of years. Sea salt is collected from just about anywhere, including countries where safety precautions can be non-existent. If you use sea salt, check its source. In the US, what's called sea salt doesn't actually have to come from the sea.

    That said, some people object to the iodination ("we must protect our precious bodily fluids"; though that quote was about fluoridation), and as noted there are chemicals in some table salt to resist clumping from moisture. The fix for that is an "unadulterated" salt and a few grains of rice in the shaker.
  • VonSzarvasVonSzarvas Posts: 3,450
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    Hydrogen peroxide is one atom away from water. If you choose to drink it, especially in its undiluted form where it can spontaneously combust upon contact with organic material, be sure to write your obituary first.

    LOL, Good advice, thank you Gordon.
    Will let the hairdresser in the family know !!! :)

  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    Hydrogen peroxide is one atom away from water. If you choose to drink it, especially in its undiluted form where it can spontaneously combust upon contact with organic material, be sure to write your obituary first.



    Also:

    That's a new take on getting slipped a micky.

    And the expression "getting bombed".

    Happy the OTC products are what, 2 or 3 percent.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2016-11-29 02:23
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    Hydrogen peroxide is one atom away from water. If you choose to drink it, especially in its undiluted form where it can spontaneously combust upon contact with organic material, be sure to write your obituary first.

    One of the great mysteries of life. Water is good and necessary for life. Oxygen is good and necessary for life. But that particular combo H202 is toxic.

    Another oxygen "gotcha" is how it becomes toxic when scuba diving deep. Not that diving below 200 feet is practical for any reason. But all your body cares about is the "partial pressure" of oxygen. Same ratio of nitrogen & the rest, but when the PP of oxygen gets high enough, it's just a matter of time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity#Underwater

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    My mom has interesting stories of the Great Depression. When "oleomargarine" was sold, it legally had to be white, to avoid confusion with butter. It came with yellow food coloring which people manually mixed in. Two toxic wrongs DID make a right.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    erco wrote: »
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    Hydrogen peroxide is one atom away from water. If you choose to drink it, especially in its undiluted form where it can spontaneously combust upon contact with organic material, be sure to write your obituary first.

    One of the great mysteries of life. Water is good and necessary for life. Oxygen is good and necessary for life. But that particular combo H202 is toxic.

    Another oxygen "gotcha" is how it becomes toxic when scuba diving deep. Not that diving below 200 feet is practical for any reason. But all your body cares about is the "partial pressure" of oxygen. Same ratio of nitrogen & the rest, but when the PP of oxygen gets high enough, it's just a matter of time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity#Underwater

    Even breathing pure (or close to pure) oxygen at normal atmospheric pressure is fatal after a while.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    VonSzarvas wrote: »
    LOL, Good advice, thank you Gordon.
    Will let the hairdresser in the family know !!! :)

    Yep, same stuff we use to bleach our teeth to make them whiter, and disinfect cuts. And don't forget jet and rocket fuel!

  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2016-11-29 06:14
    erco wrote: »
    Another oxygen "gotcha" is how it becomes toxic when scuba diving deep.

    Either way just make sure you order the 0^2 version, and not the 0^3 version of oxygen.

  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    erco wrote: »
    My mom has interesting stories of the Great Depression. When "oleomargarine" was sold, it legally had to be white, to avoid confusion with butter. It came with yellow food coloring which people manually mixed in. Two toxic wrongs DID make a right.



    Thank You for that.

    My mom just called it "oleo", and we always had it in the house. She was mostly the only one who used it, and thought it was better for her health. I used it very seldom when we were out of butter, thinking it was tasteless I piled it on, and my mom would get mad at me for that.

    We were never out of butter very long because of my dad, he wouldn't touch margarine. My mom would get mad at him for his over use of butter. Regular doctor visits and cholesterol tests had to do with that.

    The Great Depression brought out the worst and the best in people and how they lived. Saving bread bags, rubber bands, plastic can lids and other items for re-use. Living through that time instilled ways of of thinking that they kept throughout their lives.

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    MikeDYur,
    Saving bread bags, rubber bands, plastic can lids and other items for re-use. Living through that time instilled ways of of thinking that they kept throughout their lives.
    Similarly for those in Europe scratching along after the Second World War.

    Still, there is a huge proportion of people who have to live like today, even the supposedly wealthy western world.

  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    Heater. wrote: »

    Similarly for those in Europe scratching along after the Second World War.

    Still, there is a huge proportion of people who have to live like today, even the supposedly wealthy western world.



    We still re-use bread bags, it just makes makes sense to use something that is still in good condition. Because of their size, quality and that the bread we get has an inner wrapper. You just cant buy anything similar.

    Rubber bands and bread ties are another story, they get pitched upon first contact.

    Funny, I bet you can't find a rubber band in our house.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Rubber bands have become an annoyance in recent years. Used to be the a rubber band was usable for quite a long time. Now a days they seem to rot and crumble away after no time.

    Also tie wraps. Used to be that tie wraps were made of nylon and damn strong. Recent packets of tie wraps have busted at the slightest tug. I don't think they are nylon at all.

    Also sticky tape. Used to be that sticky tape would actually stick to stuff. Not anymore it seems.

    Oh, and whatever happened to those plastic Dymo labels you pressed text into with a Dymo machine? They would stick ferociously. Now we have Dymo label printers that print on sticky paper that does not stick to anything.

    Seems nothing in this modern world actually works anymore...

    Oops, sorry, when off on a grumble there.

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    @Heater: Things are different. Shoelaces last forever, they just wont won't stay tied.
  • LtechLtech Posts: 380
    Wait ! ...... Living is dangerous, you die from it ! ;-)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    erco,
    Things are different. Shoelaces last forever,....
    Oh shoot, I forgot to grump about shoe laces.

    More specifically bootlaces. Can't run around in shoes most of the year here. I now have to change laces twice a year because they fray and break. The problem seems to be not so much with the laces as the hooks on the boots that seem to be specifically designed to have sharp edges and cut the laces as fast as possible.

    I could go on...

    Seems to me as if solutions to problems that were solved hundreds or even thousands of years ago are now forgotten.

  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2016-11-29 21:54
    To avoid problems, stick with old stuff. At least it can be fixed instead of replaced. I drive a 1982 Mercedes diesel. It's got nearly 300K miles on it and still runs smoothly. My washer, dryer, fridge, and stove were ancient when I bought my house in 1984. I still have them. Every one of them has needed fixing at one point or another, but they're all so freaking simple that even I can figure out how to do it.

    Recently, the timer motor on my dryer quit. Sears wanted too much for a replacement timer, so I got a good used one on eBay for a fraction of what Sears was asking. I expect it to last another 30 years.

    -Phil
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2016-11-29 23:32
    It's not so easy.

    If you happen to have a 30 year old car that still runs, all well and good. Around here if you want to buy one it is not so easy to find. Certainly not cheap.

    Actually owning your own home in which to keep all that old stuff for decades is all but impossible for most people around the world today. They have been reduced to tenants. When they have to move to the next place dragging all that stuff with them is not feasible.

    @Ltech
    Living is dangerous, you die from it !
    Yep. One can only hope so.

    As far as I can tell civilization has been going down hill since 1969. When man stepped on the moon.

    Luckily, hopefully, I'm old enough to be out of here before the stuff hits the fan.

    Good luck for the future you young guys.


    Edit: Other grump... It's impossible to buy real milk now a days. You know, where an inch of cream floats to the top of a pint over night.
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    Heater. wrote: »
    As far as I can tell civilization has been going down hill since 1969.
    For many years I've identified that very same year as the turning point, too. Still, in a few ways things have gotten better. My oldest sister owned an absolutely crappy transistor radio. I don't think she realized then (or now) just how retched it was. The circuit was retched, the case was retched, and the earphone that came with it was retched.

    It takes but a few minutes of work, nowadays, to earn the money that would buy an excellent radio and headphones.

    OTOH, good luck finding something worth listening to. If you succeed, chances are good it came from 1969. :)

  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    User Name wrote: »
    Heater. wrote: »
    As far as I can tell civilization has been going down hill since 1969.
    For many years I've identified that very same year as the turning point, too.



    I know it was back around that time somewhere.

    And I thought I was the only one that sucks the life out of rubber band's and battery's.

    And the only thing I can get to stick is something I don't wan't to.

    But you can't keep poisoning something, and not expect a reaction.
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