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Building on a Propeller Project Board USB — Parallax Forums

Building on a Propeller Project Board USB

I have a simple circuit I'd like to build that uses a few resistors and a single 8 pin PDIP. I'd like to build it on a Propeller Project Board USB (https://www.parallax.com/product/32810). My problem though is I'm not sure how to work with this kind of board. I've used boards like the Circuit Overlay Board (https://www.parallax.com/product/32999) that pretty much mirrors a breadboard. How do you work with a board that has plated through holes but none are connected to each other? It seems like it would be awkward to solder a PDIP onto the board and then try to attach wires to the PDIP pins.

Comments

  • You might try a web search on point-to-point wiring -- that's what you need to do to build a circuit on a perfboard of any type. The advantage of the CoB is that you can pull it off your PAB and then re-purpose that part.

    When you get the hang of the hardware stuff and tire of hand-wiring boards you can etch PCBs at home. Yes, I still do this when I need a board today (so long as the board is not too complicated). I use a product called PCB-Fab-In-A-Box.

    Here's a little board I built for a Cylon-themed dress for San Diego Comic Con.

    db700951ddbf2a4128b611ea4f4a1ba2.jpg

    Under the Propeller Mini is a TC4427 and a couple resistors.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2016-10-19 02:09
    I use wire-wrap wire for this. I strip about 1/2", put it through the adjacent hole from the top of the board then wrap the stripped end around the PDIP pin (usually lightly tacked down with a little bit of solder to fill the hole). The wires are mostly routed around the components on top of the board. Excess gets cut off after soldering.

    You can easily get two wires on a pin or resistor lead wire. Sometimes I'll daisy chain by stripping a 1" section in the middle of a wire sliding the insulation towards one end (the shorter one), then stripping 1/2" from that end for the next connection. I'll double over the 1" area and slip that through the adjacent hole to wrap around the PDIP pin. It helps to have a simple wire-wrap stripper and a sharp small diagonal cutter.

    If you don't have wire-wrap, 26G or 28G solid wire will work, just not as nicely. You'd like insulation that'll fit through your board holes. If you need more than one wire on a pin, use two adjacent holes next to the PDIP pin for the wires.
  • JonnyMac wrote: »
    You might try a web search on point-to-point wiring -- that's what you need to do to build a circuit on a perfboard of any type. The advantage of the CoB is that you can pull it off your PAB and then re-purpose that part.

    When you get the hang of the hardware stuff and tire of hand-wiring boards you can etch PCBs at home. Yes, I still do this when I need a board today (so long as the board is not too complicated). I use a product called PCB-Fab-In-A-Box.

    Here's a little board I built for a Cylon-themed dress for San Diego Comic Con.

    db700951ddbf2a4128b611ea4f4a1ba2.jpg

    Under the Propeller Mini is a TC4427 and a couple resistors.
    Very nice! I built something with a PropMini as well but I used a clunky AdaFruit board: https://www.adafruit.com/product/1609
  • My project had to be as small as we could make it because it was hidden in this dress:

    17a765b41e3d0ff145695bab115299a7.jpg

    There was also a button in her waistline so she could cycle the animation states. Yes, that's a strip of WS2812 LEDs across her chest.
  • Mike Green wrote: »
    I use wire-wrap wire for this. I strip about 1/2", put it through the adjacent hole from the top of the board then wrap the stripped end around the PDIP pin (usually lightly tacked down with a little bit of solder to fill the hole). The wires are mostly routed around the components on top of the board. Excess gets cut off after soldering.

    You can easily get two wires on a pin or resistor lead wire. Sometimes I'll daisy chain by stripping a 1" section in the middle of a wire sliding the insulation towards one end (the shorter one), then stripping 1/2" from that end for the next connection. I'll double over the 1" area and slip that through the adjacent hole to wrap around the PDIP pin. It helps to have a simple wire-wrap stripper and a sharp small diagonal cutter.

    If you don't have wire-wrap, 26G or 28G solid wire will work, just not as nicely. You'd like insulation that'll fit through your board holes. If you need more than one wire on a pin, use two adjacent holes next to the PDIP pin for the wires.
    Thanks! That is very helpful.

  • I find it painful, but doable. I use thicker gauge wire than Mike suggested, soldering it to an adjacent hole, then extending the stripped wire over the 0.1" to make contact with a pin leg, and solder again.
  • I buy a box of 'breadboard jumper wires'. These are insulated tinned solid-core wire, with exposed ends bent at 90°; a box contains a variety of lengths, all integer multiples of 0.1", i.e., the same as the pitch on the board. The exposed wires are the perfect length to reach an adjacent hole. No measuring, no cutting, no stripping, no bending - just push through the board and solder.
  • rjo__rjo__ Posts: 2,114
    My first choice is the Circuit Overlay Board. If this just cannot work, I use Veroboards and an ImageJ macro to output g-code so that a cheapo CNC router can size the Veroboard and cut the traces. Once I have a design that I like, using the macro and cutting the board takes about twenty minutes.

    The are two problems with this second approach: 1) There is a fair amount soldering. Veroboards aren't difficult to solder, but they are certainly not as easy to solder as the Overlay Board, and 2) It is more difficult to share the design with others. Everyone can buy an Overlay Board... relatively few people have even a cheapo CNC machine. So... if it is just for me, I frequently go the Veroboard/CNC route. It is fun and productive. If it is for the community, I try my hardest to stick with an Overlay Board or two or three:)
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2016-10-20 03:19
    (deleted)
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2016-10-20 03:33
    I also use wire-wrap wire. I start by stripping an inch or more of insulation from the loose end of the spool. For each wire segment, I roughly measure the length required, then begin to strip that much additional insulation off, stopping when the end reaches about 1/8" from the conductor end. This leaves a long section of stripped wire in the middle. I can then cut a piece off, leaving 1/8" of conductor on the other end of the cut piece. Sometimes I do this right away. Other times I wait until the free end is soldered, then cut it.

    The reason I do it this way is that stripping a short piece of insulation off of the end of wire-wrap wire is difficult -- or at least tedious -- using the usual wire-wrap stripper. This is especially true if the piece of wire you're trying to strip is very short. Plus, there's zero waste with this technique.

    -Phil
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2016-10-20 04:54
    David Betz wrote: »
    I have a simple circuit I'd like to build that uses a few resistors and a single 8 pin PDIP. I'd like to build it on a Propeller Project Board USB (https://www.parallax.com/product/32810). My problem though is I'm not sure how to work with this kind of board. I've used boards like the Circuit Overlay Board (https://www.parallax.com/product/32999) that pretty much mirrors a breadboard. How do you work with a board that has plated through holes but none are connected to each other? It seems like it would be awkward to solder a PDIP onto the board and then try to attach wires to the PDIP pins.

    That kind of board with uncommitted plated-through holes is the perfect proto board to use. I either bridge adjacent pads with solder itself or just use stripped wire-wrap wire taking the track to exactly where I want it to go. Of course you use ww wire to connect point to point but stripped and tacked to pads it's a great track.

    btw, here's a P2 proto where you can see I've used a bare wire as a track. I really really hate "tracked" protoboards with a vengeance, especially single-sided, as the cutting of the track is problematic and leaves burrs that may short etc.
    matrix.JPG
  • I have been using this as hookup wire for years, and it looks like I have some years left. 22 ga. tinned copper, but one thing is important is there is no shrinkage or melting of the insulation. I don't like wire that has insulation that can't handle the heat of soldering. Color coded some what as I use the red for power runs and the white for signal. Short pieces are cut, fitted and soldered, longer runs are worked from one end to the other. Making sure to leave enough slack for possible re-work or added circuitry.
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  • I ended up using a Circuit Overlay Board. I would post a picture of it but I'm not sure how to embed a picture in a post.
  • MikeDYur wrote: »
    I have been using this as hookup wire for years, and it looks like I have some years left. 22 ga. tinned copper, but one thing is important is there is no shrinkage or melting of the insulation. I don't like wire that has insulation that can't handle the heat of soldering. Color coded some what as I use the red for power runs and the white for signal. Short pieces are cut, fitted and soldered, longer runs are worked from one end to the other. Making sure to leave enough slack for possible re-work or added circuitry.
    I've had problems with insulation shrinkage. What type of wire do you suggest to avoid that?

  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2016-10-20 15:44
    If you use standard (30AWG) wire-wrap wire the insulation doesn't shrink plus the wire is silver plated so it is so easy to solder.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    JonnyMac wrote: »
    My project had to be as small as we could make it because it was hidden in this dress:
    There was also a button in her waistline so she could cycle the animation states. Yes, that's a strip of WS2812 LEDs across her chest.

    The shoes look to have LEDs too. Anything special there?
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    edited 2016-10-20 17:34
    If you use standard (30AWG) wire-wrap wire the insulation doesn't shrink plus the wire is silver plated so it is so easy to solder.



    My experience with wire wrapping goes back to the 70s when I usud it for a while. From what I remember about it was the wire insulation was some pretty tough stuff, like Teflon. But also you didn't need to strip the wire, the post that you wrap to cuts into the insulation to make the connections. Not sure what the modern day version is though.
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,104
    edited 2016-10-20 18:04
    JonnyMac wrote: »
    My project had to be as small as we could make it because it was hidden in this dress:
    There was also a button in her waistline so she could cycle the animation states. Yes, that's a strip of WS2812 LEDs across her chest.

    The shoes look to have LEDs too. Anything special there?

    There was no time to update the shoes -- we did that whole project (including me designing and etching a PCB) over a weekend). Jinyo and Victoria (from the show "Heroes of Cosplay") bought several Propeller Minis so we could do the shoes, too, but time ran short. What's in the shoes is a cheap LED string from All Electronics.

  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    MikeDYur wrote: »
    If you use standard (30AWG) wire-wrap wire the insulation doesn't shrink plus the wire is silver plated so it is so easy to solder.



    My experience with wire wrapping goes back to the 70s when I usud it for a while. From what I remember about it was the wire insulation was some pretty tough stuff, like Teflon. But also you didn't need to strip the wire, the post that you wrap to cuts into the insulation to make the connections. Not sure what the modern day version is though.

    I built some interfaces in the early 70's as well, and IIRC the wire wrap insulation was Kynar or some similar name. That was the most common wire wrap insulation, but was not practical to use when soldering the wire wrap joints. Teflon insulated wire wrap wire was harder to find and more expensive but stood up well to soldering temperatures, although it was very difficult to strip without the proper tool.
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    edited 2016-10-20 21:09
    Had to look this up, I remember buying a kit from RS way back, using a chemical etch solution, stickers and a etch resist pen. The results were not very good as the PCB blanks from RS had a thin layer of copper to begin with. But if JM is using this I wouldn't have any reservations on giving it a try.

    http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/products/starter_kit.html

    kwinn wrote: »
    the wire wrap insulation was Kynar or some similar name.

    Kynar sounds about right. I remember trying to repurpose the wire when I got out of wrapping, and the insulation didn't hold up to heat very good at all. The modern product that has to be stripped first, as Peter said holds up to heat better.
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2016-10-20 22:03
    The stuff that you see in the photo is the stuff I use all the time. This one is white because I have a 1,000ft roll of it but you can get it in different colors. The thing is that while it is called wire-wrap wire, I have never really wire-wrapped but I've always used the wire to make up prototypes. If you trim insulation off a ww wire and cut the bare end to the right length you won't have any trouble soldering it plus the insulation won't shrink either.

    If you need to strip any kind of wire including this stuff you can just use your side cutters but from the back of the cutters with your middle finger in between the handles to regulate the tension. The back of the cutters will dig in nicely at 90' to the wire rather than what I see everyone else struggle with when they strip with the cutters in the "traditional" manner (moving V of cutters upwards rather than inverted V upwards) if you know what I mean.

    btw, I have in the past used that coated "Vero wire" with the wiring pen and guides to build boards where direct soldering will melt the insulation coating but that stuff is thin and really needs the guide rails to keep it all together.

    EDIT: I think I will have to post a video showing how to strip and solder this wire, but it is the best way I know of making a reliable hand wired prototype. You may have noticed that I also used copper tape for a ground bus just where I want it :)
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    edited 2016-10-20 23:56
    The stuff that you see in the photo is the stuff I use all the time. This one is white because I have a 1,000ft roll of it but you can get it in different colors. The thing is that while it is called wire-wrap wire, I have never really wire-wrapped but I've always used the wire to make up prototypes. If you trim insulation off a ww wire and cut the bare end to the right length you won't have any trouble soldering it plus the insulation won't shrink either.

    If you need to strip any kind of wire including this stuff you can just use your side cutters but from the back of the cutters with your middle finger in between the handles to regulate the tension. The back of the cutters will dig in nicely at 90' to the wire rather than what I see everyone else struggle with when they strip with the cutters in the "traditional" manner (moving V of cutters upwards rather than inverted V upwards) if you know what I mean.

    btw, I have in the past used that coated "Vero wire" with the wiring pen and guides to build boards where direct soldering will melt the insulation coating but that stuff is thin and really needs the guide rails to keep it all together.

    EDIT: I think I will have to post a video showing how to strip and solder this wire, but it is the best way I know of making a reliable hand wired prototype. You may have noticed that I also used copper tape for a ground bus just where I want it :)



    That wire definitely takes up a lot less space, and less confusing to trace. I will have to place an order soon.

    Sorry about the rhyme.


    EDIT: Not to mention less solder, less weight, less fumes to dull your brain.
  • I'm now starting to understand the need for plated-through holes on a protoboard. I just tried building a simple circuit on a cheap RadioShack single-sided protoboard and one of the pads lifted immediately. I guess the through-hole plating helps keep the pads in place.
  • David Betz wrote: »
    I'm now starting to understand the need for plated-through holes on a protoboard. I just tried building a simple circuit on a cheap RadioShack single-sided protoboard and one of the pads lifted immediately. I guess the through-hole plating helps keep the pads in place.

    I know the pain, I thought I had decent plated through hole proto boards, nothing made here.

    Anyway I lifted the pads a couple pads on some rework, just go to the next pad., if needed.

    Parallax through hole prototype boards are heavy duty, under Peter's process they would last forever. They could be reworked or repurposed at will.
  • I got lazy and am using one of these: https://www.adafruit.com/products/1609
  • I think most of those cheap ss boards aren't even tinned either and so they are not that friendly to solder if they get a bit tarnished. The th also supports connectors far better too so that they don't push through when you press on them. You can even mount parts on either side quite easily.
  • JonnyMac wrote: »
    You might try a web search on point-to-point wiring -- that's what you need to do to build a circuit on a perfboard of any type. The advantage of the CoB is that you can pull it off your PAB and then re-purpose that part.

    When you get the hang of the hardware stuff and tire of hand-wiring boards you can etch PCBs at home. Yes, I still do this when I need a board today (so long as the board is not too complicated). I use a product called PCB-Fab-In-A-Box.

    Here's a little board I built for a Cylon-themed dress for San Diego Comic Con.

    db700951ddbf2a4128b611ea4f4a1ba2.jpg

    Under the Propeller Mini is a TC4427 and a couple resistors.



    Don't you find the Prop-plug male header on the Propeller Mini gets int the way, there must be a special concern to trim leads as short as possible or, OUCH!
  • This is as good a place to ask this as any, why are the male headers on the Memsic2125 mounted on top of the board? To protect the chip maybe but it isn't traditional at all. The excess solder on the pins keep it from sitting straight in a female header.
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