Let's Robot - Am I the Only One Who Thinks This Is A Bad Idea?
GlassKNees
Posts: 181
So, I read the email announcing a planned collaboration between Parallax and Let's Robot, a gaming company. If I misunderstand this correctly, Let's Robot wants to permit people to control Elev-8's, equipped with live video streaming, remotely at home and even have groups sharing the experience via chat sessions. This brings up a whole lot of issues in my mind:
Is it a good idea to let unknown individuals control a flying robot? I know from experience that flying a quad with no previous experience is a challenge, but adding latency as well as flying by committee sounds like a recipe for disaster.
These quads will be flown indoors, right? If not, then how do you get around the requirement for having a spotter while flying FPV, which is what you're essentially doing? Don't forget to register with the FAA!
Whether indoor or outdoor operations, doesn't this fall under the category of commercial drone use? After all, people are going to pay to fly, right? Will Let's Robot have to apply for an FAA exemption?
Is it a good idea to let unknown individuals control a flying robot? I know from experience that flying a quad with no previous experience is a challenge, but adding latency as well as flying by committee sounds like a recipe for disaster.
These quads will be flown indoors, right? If not, then how do you get around the requirement for having a spotter while flying FPV, which is what you're essentially doing? Don't forget to register with the FAA!
Whether indoor or outdoor operations, doesn't this fall under the category of commercial drone use? After all, people are going to pay to fly, right? Will Let's Robot have to apply for an FAA exemption?
Comments
A wheeled robot can do this because:
- It can stop moving and safely hold position when no commands are given
- If the batteries run out, or connection is lost, it simply stops (see first comment)
- It is possible to move in "units", like forward 1 foot, or left 90 degrees
- Maximum speed is easily limited - many bots move relatively slowly
An Elev8 has:
- No means of holding a specific location in space
- No means of sensing obstacles
- Four very sharp blades spinning at high RPM
- A maximum speed of 40 mph or so
I think unless the Elev8 could be made to work similar to a wheeled robot (position hold, move in units, fully enclosed) this is a very bad idea.
I think we can assume they are looking at the legalities and safety issues and will have them covered before actually trying this. You would. I would. Why assume they wouldn't? They know what their liability insurance costs.
People controlling it would be limited to just moving it in an X/Y/Z manner within limits I set and possible the ability to pan/tilt a camera gimble. There's no reason something like that couldn't be done in a field area. Firmware could be programmed to safely land the copter during low-battery condition and ignore user input.
The 3DR Iris and their newer model can do some amazing things, so I know it's possible. :cool:
Having been there, I can clarify a bit and share some of the technical details that were part of the off-camera conversation.
It would be indoor only, so FAA rules don't apply to that at all (in fact, if you are in a netted enclosure outside, FAA rules don't apply to that, either). We did share with them briefly what is and isn't legal, and we are here as a resource for them (and any other customer) to help point people to where the most current legislation and rules can be found.
Jason is absolutely right - there a lot of concerns and technical challenges, and Let's Robot is keenly aware of them. That being said, nothing drives progress and development like an ambitious goal. I've been to the ER from an accident with my own v3, so I know EXACTLY how dangerous they are and shared my own experiences in detail.
What they want to do is something that is a popular request - control a multirotor with something other than an RC transmitter. It's been done on lots of other platforms, and having the capability on the ELEV-8 would be a welcome addition.
With capability comes responsibility - so this beings up the need for an array of sensors that act as a sort of safety - we talked about LiDAR, Ultrasonics, Laser Rangefinders like the SF-11, and physical barriers like a large shell of some kind, as well as how to code in an e-stop. Again, development here would be welcomed.
Please continue the discussion - if you are up for contributing by integrating sensors, coding e-stops, building a command-set protocol, or helping develop in any other way, we'd love to see what you come up with. People are going to try this regardless of what we say or do, so let's be there to help them do it safely.
Thanks,
Matt
I don't know much about the F.C. on the V3 Elev-8, but since you've incorporated GPS, I would think it would be capable of flying in Loiter mode, which would make it easier for a novice to control. But that would require obtaining a GPS lock indoors.
I too have been thinking about collision avoidance, and you have no doubt searched this topic as well. You guys should be able to cobble something together that would be specific to the Let's Robot environment, hence a simpler, cheaper solution.
I did run across an outfit in Germany that offers a collision avoidance system that can take inputs from a variety of sensors, but it's not cheap and requires modifying the F.C. code. Check out: aevo-cas.com/index.php
With experimentation comes discovery and this can be made entirely safe in my view.
Whether or not it is achieved is another story.
Ken Gracey
Provided you can keep it safe, and doesn't cost a fortune, go for it.
Was going to the moon safe? Absolutely not! But we did it to learn, and we learnt a lot, including how to save 3 astronauts lives on Apollo 13 by using cardboard and duct tape. The Flight Engineer in Charge of the Mission is quoted as saying "loosing them is not an option, so you better find a solution!"
Just my 2c,
Ray
Could be interesting if every user had some feed back as to what the command inputs of all the other users were. One might see a swarm of dots that indicate a lot of people want to go up and left, whilst another swarm of dots would indicate a group that want o go up and right. Which group would one join?
Pretty simple, but it works. Kind of like logo commands. For a drone, if the drone had the ability to hold a set position and move relative distances it would be pretty simple from there to use the same control scheme.
Does that mean we can then have remote quad dog fights ?