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Sensors for plasma cutting — Parallax Forums

Sensors for plasma cutting

I have implemented a plasma cutting solution with proximty inductive sensors.
It works fine until the metal surface reaches about 200 centigrades or higher, then sensors function changes radically, so the system get farther and the plasma fails.

I wonder if your ultrasonic (or another kind) sensors could work with a plasma cutting system (as hypertherm), that is, that heat doesn't affect the distance measurement and neither the electromagnetic noise of plasma affects it. Have someone had an experience with this kind of cutting systems?

Thank you for your advice.
Luis
563 x 463 - 500K

Comments

  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    Luis,

    As I mentioned via email, heat does affect ultrasonic sensors to a degree (no pun intended). :nerd:
  • In about what percentage? It could be marginal, not relevant. (what "pun" means?)
  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    edited 2016-06-22 16:41
    "Pun" means: the usually humorous use of a word in such a way as to suggest two or more of its meanings or the meaning of another word similar in sound.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    Thanks Mike. Yeah, I was mentioning that heat affects the ultrasonic sensor to a degree, meaning both "in some sense" and the literal use of the word degree as in temperature. Anyway, hopefully someone here can help you or has been in this situation before and has a solution or at least suggestions.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-06-22 19:04
    Luis,
    It's likely a case of choosing the right elemental materials to construct the probe from. Things like Curie Point will always be a problem but different materials have different limits.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Well, the speed of sound in air goes something like:

    v = 331m/s + 0.6m/s/C * T

    So bump the temperature up by 200C for part of the round trip and and you have a substantial change in speed and hence distance measurement.

  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    A full 3D ultrasonic camera would be cool! It would certainly have the useful stand-off distance.

  • Didn't someone have a cheap laser range finder posted somewhere?

    IIRC, it was using a standard $1 store laser pointer.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Strangely enough Parallax has a laser range finder in their catalog. 250 dollars or so.

    Also strangely enough I was just talking to Bill Latino of LeddarTech at the Sensors Expo in San Jose. They have a LED range finder that looks out across a 30 degree or so beam width and reports distances of objects at 16 different angles in that beam.

    They have an evaluation kit of this that you can buy on line for 255 dollars.

    http://leddartech.com/app/uploads/dlm_uploads/2016/02/Datasheet-Leddar-Sensor-Evaluation-Kit.pdf

    All of which is preferable to the laser range finder we bought last year for 2500 Euro!





  • MikeDYurMikeDYur Posts: 2,176
    edited 2016-06-23 12:06
    Thanks Mike.


    Thank Merriam-Webster, you done a better job of exsplaining it.
  • Heater. wrote: »

    v = 331m/s + 0.6m/s/C * T

    So bump the temperature up by 200C ...

    ¿What is "C"?. If it would be near 1, and T= 200, the change is .003, wich is not relevant.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Well, I have no idea. I take "C" to mean centigrade.

    I could be wrong. But Google is your friend here.

  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2016-06-23 05:09
    Just my two cents but if you ping the surface and get back a distance reading you can use that to look for the sudden edge change rather than just creep. Those on/off type sensors don't give you enough information to make intelligent adjustments.
  • I saw leddar sensors, thank you, but I need to move a cutting head about 1 cm up or down, knowing the distance to surface for control, so It would be right to have 1 or 2 milimeter precision. These sensors are for a 50 m range with a 5 cms error.
    If someone has been in touch with plasma cutting, could have a hint.
    koehler wrote: »
    IIRC, it was using a standard $1 store laser pointer.
    Do somebody have used a laser pointer to know distance in short ranges? In google "IIRC" stands for a "Reporting Council" for financial data of companies.
    [quote/]
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Yeah, sorry, when I checked the Leddar spec's later I saw the 5cm resolution thing.

    Our 2500 Euro laser range finder does much better, but that's hardly what you want.

  • Hi lfjill

    Is your plasma cutter intended to operate over evenly finished surfaces, like metal sheets or bars, or should it also accept any kind of workable surface, perhaps with coarse and unpredictably distributed imperfections or ondulations?

    Henrique
  • Is this is a project or a search for a reliable solution to get a piece of equipment ready for production?

    There are many low-cost THC units available.

  • Every CNC plasma table I've made uses the arc voltage drop to maintain height:
    https://www.hypertherm.com/en-US/learn/articles/torch-height-control-for-plasma-cutting/
  • @MrBi11

    That was a very informative link. Thanks for sharing.
  • In Aerospace Engineering we learned C = sqrt( gamma R T )

    C = Speed of Sound
    gamma = adiabatic index, typically around 1.4
    R = Molar Gas Constant = ~287
    T = Temperature in Kelvin

    When going from 293Kelvin to 473Kelvin (approximate numbers) the speed of sound goes from 343 m/s to 436 m/s.

    Also keep in mind you might be dealing with large temperature gradients, which means you won't have a constant speed of sound between the objects (assuming there are large temperature gradients).
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