Friendly suggestions for parallax
m00tykins
Posts: 73
in Propeller 2
Hey all,
I've been doing research on old 8 bit cpus lately, and I was reading on how simple chips, even with just say 16k transistors, used design teams of at least 5-10 people. And reading about processor design on my own, it's a miracle that chip has been able to make something a complex as the p1 all by himself. In retrospect it's awful that people on these forums have been literally demanding that chip make the p2 immediately like spoiled children.
Anyway, parallax, the propeller is your new flagship product. The basic stamp is no longer relevant today, the arduino is both cheaper and faster, but the prop is unique and has a unique niche in the market.
Maybe you should hire some more silicon designers parallax. Take the stress off of chip to make something as complex as a pentium all by himself. Bill mensch, the designer of the 6502, is still around and has his own company very similar to parallax where he still sells 6502 and 65186 SBCs. I would suggest contacting people like him and seeing if you could help take half the load off of chip.
And although chip has done the impossible already, what about the prop 3? Prop 4? Do you really expect him to make something even more complex than the p2 in the future, also all by himself? That's asking the impossible.
I've been doing research on old 8 bit cpus lately, and I was reading on how simple chips, even with just say 16k transistors, used design teams of at least 5-10 people. And reading about processor design on my own, it's a miracle that chip has been able to make something a complex as the p1 all by himself. In retrospect it's awful that people on these forums have been literally demanding that chip make the p2 immediately like spoiled children.
Anyway, parallax, the propeller is your new flagship product. The basic stamp is no longer relevant today, the arduino is both cheaper and faster, but the prop is unique and has a unique niche in the market.
Maybe you should hire some more silicon designers parallax. Take the stress off of chip to make something as complex as a pentium all by himself. Bill mensch, the designer of the 6502, is still around and has his own company very similar to parallax where he still sells 6502 and 65186 SBCs. I would suggest contacting people like him and seeing if you could help take half the load off of chip.
And although chip has done the impossible already, what about the prop 3? Prop 4? Do you really expect him to make something even more complex than the p2 in the future, also all by himself? That's asking the impossible.
Comments
Huh... That's actually an amazing idea. Sort of like the Linux of CPUs.
For P2, Chip is using tools written by Altera & FPGAs supplierd by Altera (not available to your old 8 bit designers), and he is using ASIC consultants and On Semi.
P2 is about to enter a solid phase of Test Verification, and that will involve more than even those 5-10 you mention.
Add-in the P2-eco system of Software tools, and the number grows again.
P2 is already close to community developed, and certainly the vital Test Verification phase is looking very much community driven.
"friendly" comment not so friendly as us forum friends have been encouraging Chip, contributing and testing, outlaying our time, money, and resources. I know I have. I just want Chip to make a P2 in silicon, not a P3 or P4 as it currently is in FPGA. Why? Because we are not just taking an academic interest in the project, we have commercial interest, and we have proven to be very very patient, and still interested. Very much unlike children.
There hasn't been much of late but there was a time or two in the past where quite a number of us were saying things like "It'll never be finished" and "The competition has/will left us behind" and "This has gone beyond the kitchen sink" and "I was counting on it being done by now".
Those are demands in there own way. I'd guess that's the sort of comments m00tykins is talking about.
Uninformed and uncalled for comments I would say which is why I was not impressed.
-Phil
So if the P2 comes out in 2017, when would we expect the P3 -- 2027? And the P4 in 2037?
Perhaps, but I have no idea what "diluted any cohesive vision" means - in practical terms, I know the first P2 conception did not include Smart Pins or USB support.
Given those are in there, that is the opposite of what 'dilute' usually means ?
The real test is not one of any perceived vision, but rather does the part have enough features to gain a critical mass is design-ins ?
My instinct is, there is enough space between MCU and FPGA, for the P2 to do quite well.
Given the trends for MCUs to morph into MPUs, P2 gets more useful.
Prop2 is not yet any mask set at all ....
It will have the ability to generate future variant mask sets, as demand & funding allow/dictate.
You may be right. However, the cat's out of the bag, and I doubt you're going to put it back in. As you point out, the current approach has some drawbacks. So, where do you go from here?
To me, there are at least two advantages to opening up the actual coding, compared to the current approach:
Had both of these applied to the P2 design, it's conceivable that it would have taken less time to develop and ended up with a more coherent design. I'm not saying that it would have been a certainty, because none of us can know that (either way). But I definitely don't think the idea should be dismissed outright, just because the current approach didn't work well.
Get me it now!
However, I'm also responsible for throwing one tiny, weeny, little extra feature suggestion into the pot that Chip implemented on the road to the failed "P2 Hot" design.
Perhaps it's better we all shut up and let Chip get on with it.
As for P3 and on. That will be a 64 bit, RISC-V, open source design, running Linux, with multiple Propeller style COGs and I/O system for the real time stuff.
Yeah, OK, I fantasizing there.
Did someone mention sausage??!!!.... yum yum yum
https://www.google.hu/search?q=images+hungarian+sausage&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVpPCXgazNAhXGWBoKHReIAGkQsAQIGw&biw=2560&bih=1271
SO... does that mean the cogs are.... piglets
AND... the Hub is... the trough
AND... the Pins......trotters (smart of course)
what else???
Dave
*product may contain up tp 10% digital byproducts and passive fillers
A nursery rhyme for the modern age!
This little piggy went to SPI.
This little piggy stayed off.
This little piggy had smart pins enabled.
This little piggy had none.
And this little piggy blinks an LED all day long!