Ulp! I don't speak your language but...

BibaResto

I did see the "Please refrain posting meaningless topics' under comments".

I'll start out with, if you feel you can help me, which most likely you will be building 'something', and I'll pay you for it.

Having good knowledge of fairly modern cars will help (a lot). I own both a 2007 Ltd. Chrysler Crossfire (XF) and also, recently, a 2005 SRT-6 model. The Ltd's have very cool automatic spoilers which extend at 62 mph and close at 38 mph. The high end SRT-6 (includes a supercharger) has a solid spoiler. I'll be selling the Ltd. and want the automatic extending spoiler in my SRT-6. I have an XF (eBay) automatic spoiler which will fit exactly where the solid one is located. I also have the correct dash electronic spoiler switch.

No one knows what triggers the spoiler to open and close. Along with coming up with a manual way of opening the spoiler, I want a solution to the automatic part which I can 'bolt up'.

I know absolutely nothing regarding electronics - so won't be of much help there. I do have a basic schematic of how it is all set-up, but does not include anything, for instance, the existing limit switches for the start/stop (though they're pretty basic).

What I want to end up with is 'equipment' which I can install and will work as an 'original' automatic spoiler works.

Please pass this on if you know of someone here who might be interested. However, I don't want to deal with 'theories' and 'maybes' along with multiple add ons, 'just in case'. Though fuses make sense.

I restore 1955 - 1975 Alfa Romeos for a living. I have a one page schematic for the entire wiring diagram.

Seairth

It looks like you are already getting some advice for the same post at http://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/automatic-rear-spoiler-project.148193/. I recommend keeping the conversation in one spot, in case other people with a similar question come along later.

BibaResto

I won't deny that I'm knocking on various doors to hopefully get answers. The electro-tech-online was a shot in the dark. I received a good handful of replies, especially by one fellow. But it was nothing but theory on top of more theory, etc. I'm well aware my complete lack of electronics is a definite hinderance.

I'd logically started out on the Crossfire forum, and received some information but not enough. Then another fellow - get this - who has a Miata with an electronic Crossfire spoiler also has a thread on the Crossfire Forum. He too is most interested in having the spoiler open and close at fairly specific speeds. A fellow on his thread suggested that BASIC Stamp might be a solution. Obviously I have no idea what that is and why IT might be of help.

I'm pretty sure a rocker switch can be made to work to open and close it manually. However, the lack of information as to how the spoiler opens and closes at speed is a major problem. I'll add that the entire drivetrain and braking system are identical to the '03 Mercedes SLK320.

The belief is that the opening/closing at specific speeds is buried somewhere in the Body Control Module - though I want a stand-alone 'unit' if someone can come up with one that will work.

A bit ago I skimmed through information way over my head regarding regarding Rotary Encoders. No doubt a bit overkill for this problem.

And let me say it - of course this is an exercise in 'so what'. The answer being because it is a challenge and that is the way I want the spoiler to work. Perhaps not the best analogy, but why do people climb mountains?

Is there any way I can receive replies - should there be any - directly to my email address?

DavidZemon

A 2005 car sold in the US must have OBD2 by law. One of the core pieces of OBD2 is a speedometer. Okay, step 1 of research is done: this is an easy way to read speed, without requiring you to create your own speedometer. Step 2 of the research is to understand your aftermarket spoiler, where to wire it for power, and how to communicate with it. Hopefully, its as simple as three wires: power, ground, and a digital line that goes high (12V) for "Spoiler up" and low (0V/ground) for "Spoiler down". Whatever it is, we'll need information from you on this one - the manufacturer and part # would help of course .

It terms of software and hardware communication interfaces, this is now very easy. You have three magical black boxes with two interfaces. The boxes are A) car, B ) microcontroller, and C) spoiler. The car talks to a microcontroller through OBD2, and the microcontroller talks to the spoiler through whatever we learn from step 2.

I'd love to develop black box #2, the microcontroller, for you. I would provide you with a box with three connectors (power, OBD2, <spoiler interface>) and the OBD2 cable at a minimum. Connect the box to those three wires, and it would work.

I think you would be better off fabricating a mounting system and wiring the car yourself, for my only automotive experience is in wrenching, not fabrication.

If you're interested, get back to me with the spoiler part number and an email address (message me here or email <first name>@<last name>.name) and we can work from there.

Cheers,
David Zemon

DavidZemon

Okay, re-reading your post, I see it is not an aftermarket spoiler, but an OEM spoiler for a Crossfire that happens to also fit your SRT-6. This likely makes it more difficult to determine the interface between the spoiler and the microcontroller because Chrysler has no reason to provide such documentation. My offer still stands though, it's just going to take a bit more research to determine what the interface is between these two.

xanadu

If you haven't sold the XF how many wires are going to the spoiler?

Do you have a multimeter?

You'd need to connect a multimeter to the XF's wiring going to the spoiler, drive the speed required and see what happens with those wires. Chances are you'll have one that is constant 12v and another that switches on and off when you're at speeds you mentioned.

BibaResto

I'll attach some info but basically two wires drive the motor which drives both way. There is an open gear box which have limit switches on both sides. The switches are simple on/off activated to stop when the metal arm meets the raised area on the outer edge of the gear. The gears are plastic so the metal arm is simply there for longevity. However...the limit switches appear to be somewhat larger than necessary - unless they are more complex and are part of the raising the spoiler at 62 mph and lowering it at around 36 mph. However the motor would also need to be alerted - so not sure how that works.

Yes, I have a mulitmeter but was unable to get a reading off the two diodes (I'm pretty sure that's what they are) which are on top and bottom of the dash spoiler switch. The switch is there simply if you want to open/close the spoiler whenever the engine is running. I also have one of the switches. The one in the SRT-6 is a dummy one.

I've not sold the Ltd. and will be keeping it until the SRT-6 gets the spoiler to automatically open...or not. I'm pretty sure I can come up with a switch which will activate it. Using the Ltd. as the guinea pig I found that the power to the motors with engine running is 14.5 volts and the limit switches use 13.5 volts.

The schematic is what it is. The photo of the spoiler is my eBay spoiler (same with the switch - which, apparently, is unusable since it only sends signals.

More info: The complete drive train, brake system, and (pretty sure) interior including gauges is the same as on an '03 Mercedes SLK 320. I do have a complete set of 2007 of the service manuals. The three manuals when stacked are 5". But they do not get into the nittygritty part such as the BCM in the schematic.

I do need to say that I'm extremely leery 'playing around' with the black boxes and definitely including the cables - unless it is absolutely bullet proof.

There's no way to at least get an email message saying there is/are posts??

Apparently it is not possible to send a readable schematic.

DavidZemon

I'm not able to tell what the physical connector looks like from your photo of the spoiler, but the wiring diagram appears to show four different wires as the "communication" interface. Two wires control the motor directly - nothing digital between the ends of the wire and the motor itself. And two more wires, one each for when the spoiler has gone all the way up/down, and they are active low.

This is a simple enough interface and shouldn't be a problem to implement with a small microcontroller and a few passive components. I might enlist the help of some friends here on the forums with more experience in electronics/board design and I could focus on the programming.

xanadu

Is that dash mounted switch a momentary or toggle switch?

DavidZemon

@BibaResto

I have found a EE friend that is interested in helping and would take care of things from the hardware side. I would take care of software. Together we would provide you with a solution that I think you would be very happy with! Just send me an email

BibaResto

This might be a game changer. I apologize for not having uploaded it at the beginning. It was written by the same fellow who suggested my contacting your forum:

"In the Crossfire, the Body Control Module operates the spoiler motor. How the BCM knows the speed of the car is a bit beyond my knowledge, but I assume that the wheel speed sensors' data is sent over the CAN bus to the BCM and the BCM then commands the motor in the spoiler.

"What I DO know is that the BCM watches for the limit switch ground signals (from the "all the way up" and "all the way down" switches in the spoiler assembly) to know when to stop sending current to the motor. (That is, the BCM determines the car's speed is high enough to raise it or low enough to retract it - it sends current to the motor and stops sending current when the limit switch takes the lead to ground.)

"All you need is a 'brain' to take on the role of the BCM for this purpose - and the BASIC Stamp seems like a good choice. The only issue is getting the speed information to the Stamp. On the Crossfire, one way would be to couple to one of the wheel speed sensors and use this signal (thru an op amp set for very high impedance so you don't confuse the PTCM). I'd think the Miata has wheel speed sensors you can "tap" in this way as well.

"Writing the routines for BASIC Stamps is an art itself, but I do know there are internet-based groups of electronics enthusiasts who would be willing to help for some reasonable compensation."

**********

DavidZemon, If you're still interested, I can send additional information. Keep in mind I'd like to have a stand alone switch to trigger the spoiler going up and down - along with the spoiler automatically opening at roughly 62 mph and automatically lowering at 36 mph.

After I've sent additional information, I'd like at least a rough cost estimate as well as a time estimate. The latter is pretty loose, providing it isn't a, "I'll think about it tomorrow", situation.

DavidZemon

@BibaResto,

All that is exactly what I was thinking. I don't know if the Crossfire's BCM uses the CAN bus (OBD2) or not, but that's sure as heck what I would do! That's a lot easier than trying to add your own speedometer or connect to an existing one.

A Stamp could certainly get the job done, but I have no interest in using one. If I choose a small chip similar to the Stamp, it will likely be a TI MSP430 since I have one already. There are also bigger chips (like small ARMs, which I also have) that have CAN bus decoding peripherals in hardware. And then there's always the Propeller, my personal favorite. All three can get the job done without too much difficulty once you add in an ELM32X. Not sure which of the three I'll end up choosing... we'll have to see!

Go ahead and send me all the information you have. I'll then forward it to my EE friend and CC you on it so that we all have each other's contact information. From there, he and I can talk and determine some numbers.

BibaResto

The physical connector for the motor is the blue socket attached to the upper right of the gear housing. And attached to it (black) is the socket for the limit switch. Apparently 'whoever' was in charge of the electrical wiring wasn't at all interested in making sure that all wiring markings were consistent throughout - which includes agreeing with the so called wiring diagram's wire colors. Before I forget, how critical is it that the wiring I'll be adding will be a fair amount heavier (16 gauge) than the 20-22 gauge existing wiring? Will this affect any signals, or...? Also the limit switches are always hot once the car is running, I believe the motor is also, can check if important. I believe the motor only turns roughly three quarters of a turn each way.

The sockets just arrived. The switch is momentary and perhaps you can see the stuff inside sits on a circuit board. It would be lovely if the switch can be used - I'll be happy to ship it to you if it will help.

By any chance will the completed 'unit' fit inside the area to the right of the gear-box - 4.5" x 1.75" x (open). While the 'unit' should have a housing, the Ltd's spoiler interior is pretty clean - very, very minor water incursion. Also in the package today with the plugs are a pair of drain hoses for the outer cupped areas for the opening mechanism.

The spoiler is roughly 28" x 7". The entire assembly weighs 11 pounds. I'd guess the spoiler itself weighs roughly five pounds.

It is going to be interesting how the 'unit' will know when the XF hits 62ish and closes at 36ish.

Feel free to contact me at biba@earthlink.net