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Prop2 Analog Test Chip - Page 2 — Parallax Forums

Prop2 Analog Test Chip

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  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,134
    I just noticed some emails from earlier today where Treehouse is coordinating with OnSemi to get the test chip GDS file to them tomorrow. The shuttle is starting on Monday.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,171
    cgracey wrote: »
    I just noticed some emails from earlier today where Treehouse is coordinating with OnSemi to get the test chip GDS file to them tomorrow. The shuttle is starting on Monday.

    From there, what is the time line to first numbers ?

  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    Excellent news Chip :)
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,134
    I don't know how long their shuttle takes. It's probably 6-10 weeks. Hopefully, it's around 6 weeks.
  • This'll be a giant leap forwards. Really looking forward to hearing some figures

    If nothing else I'm pretty sure you could sell a 'smartpin ring' that would work with other processors and give them super powers
  • Hi Chip, any news?

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,858
    Later this month according to earlier post - http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1384559/#Comment_1384559
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,858
    Which implies it was a late June, early July shuttle run.
  • Tubular wrote: »
    If nothing else I'm pretty sure you could sell a 'smartpin ring' that would work with other processors and give them super powers

    Maybe a smart coprocessor?
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,858
    evanh wrote: »
    Which implies it was a late June, early July shuttle run.

    Oops, the other interpretation is it takes 12-14 weeks for a shuttle run.
  • Hi,

    I can't find any pin description of this test chip, or a datasheet. Is there one?

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • samuell wrote: »
    Hi,

    I can't find any pin description of this test chip, or a datasheet. Is there one?

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
    This is not a chip that can be used by anyone outside of Parallax. It is just to verify the analog portions of the P2 chip. There are no COGs or any ability to run code on it as far as I know.

  • David Betz wrote: »
    samuell wrote: »
    Hi,

    I can't find any pin description of this test chip, or a datasheet. Is there one?

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
    This is not a chip that can be used by anyone outside of Parallax. It is just to verify the analog portions of the P2 chip. There are no COGs or any ability to run code on it as far as I know.
    Thanks David. I'm aware that this is just the IO portion of two pins. I asked out of curiosity, as I would like to see what each pin does. I'm assuming this is an open design, correct?

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    Not the P2!
  • evanh wrote: »
    evanh wrote: »
    Which implies it was a late June, early July shuttle run.

    Oops, the other interpretation is it takes 12-14 weeks for a shuttle run.
    It's been a little more than 12 weeks since the shuttle run started. The test chips should be arriving at Parallax any time now.

  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,171
    samuell wrote: »
    Thanks David. I'm aware that this is just the IO portion of two pins.

    I thought it was a full Pad Count test, of basically all the non-verilog parts of P2 ?
    ie it is to test ADC/DAC/PLL and full layout ?
    I think there are limits on connections, but hopefully all pins can be tested, if only 2 at a time.

    FWIR, it is strangely not going into the final P2 package, which means ground effects will differ.

    I also have some reservations about limitations on the PLL, as the VCO dividers are hard coded in the Ring.
    Smarter to me is to have just the Analog sections (VCO & PFC) in the ring, and the Dividers(VCO & Ref) in Verilog.

  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,134
    I've received notification that the shuttle will finish on 9/22, or in about one more month. This has been a really long time, since we did the tapeout in late May.

    This test chip just covers the I/O pins, clock pins, reset pin and test pin input, along with the power pins. There are TWO I/O pins on this chip, so that we can test out things like USB.

    Here is the bond diagram I made the other day, which I sent to OnSemi:

    Prop2_Test_v1_Bond.png

    It was intended for an 80-pin package, which OnSemi didn't have available for shuttle packaging, so I remapped it to that dual-row QFN. Here are the pins, as planned for the 80-pin package:

    Prop2_Analog_Test_V1.png
    2132 x 2203 - 834K
    854 x 852 - 24K
  • samuellsamuell Posts: 554
    edited 2016-08-18 08:43
    jmg wrote: »
    samuell wrote: »
    Thanks David. I'm aware that this is just the IO portion of two pins.

    I thought it was a full Pad Count test, of basically all the non-verilog parts of P2 ?
    ie it is to test ADC/DAC/PLL and full layout ?
    er to me is to have just the Analog sections (VCO & PFC) in the ring, and the Dividers(VCO & Ref) in Verilog.
    ...
    I recognize P0 and P1 as GPIOs. The rest of them are control pins. I recall that each smart pin block manages two GPIO pins, so makes sense. But I'm just inferring.

    cgracey wrote: »
    I've received notification that the shuttle will finish on 9/22, or in about one more month. This has been a really long time, since we did the tapeout in late May.

    This test chip just covers the I/O pins, clock pins, reset pin and test pin input, along with the power pins. There are TWO I/O pins on this chip, so that we can test out things like USB.

    Here is the bond diagram I made the other day, which I sent to OnSemi:

    Prop2_Test_v1_Bond.png

    It was intended for an 80-pin package, which OnSemi didn't have available for shuttle packaging, so I remapped it to that dual-row QFN. Here are the pins, as planned for the 80-pin package:

    Prop2_Analog_Test_V1.png
    I hope that such dual row solution is not to be implemented on the P2. Doing layout for dual row QFNs presents a challenge, as it requires "finer" DRC rules that most board houses won't support. Also, they are harder to solder and impossible to inspect, unless you have an X-ray machine. Even normal QFNs would be quite a no for me, especially if the pitch is 0.5mm or smaller.

    Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,171
    samuell wrote: »
    I hope that such dual row solution is not to be implemented on the P2.

    The P2 package is chosen already, as 100 pin TQFP (gull wing) with thermal Pad, 0.5mm lead pitch.


  • Chip,
    Any reason given for it taking so long? Or was the start delayed?
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,134
    Roy Eltham wrote: »
    Chip,
    Any reason given for it taking so long? Or was the start delayed?

    I don't know why this has been so slow-going, but it was free. One more month.
  • cgracey wrote: »
    Roy Eltham wrote: »
    Chip,
    Any reason given for it taking so long? Or was the start delayed?

    I don't know why this has been so slow-going, but it was free. One more month.
    Well, that may mean that the P2 will not be ready this year. :(
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    samuell wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    Roy Eltham wrote: »
    Chip,
    Any reason given for it taking so long? Or was the start delayed?

    I don't know why this has been so slow-going, but it was free. One more month.
    Well, that may mean that the P2 will not be ready this year. :(

    I would be happy with Q1-2017 and absolutely ecstatic if I could get one for Christmas.
  • kwinn wrote: »
    samuell wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    Roy Eltham wrote: »
    Chip,
    Any reason given for it taking so long? Or was the start delayed?

    I don't know why this has been so slow-going, but it was free. One more month.
    Well, that may mean that the P2 will not be ready this year. :(

    I would be happy with Q1-2017 and absolutely ecstatic if I could get one for Christmas.
    Me too. And I was expecting that. But now it seems far fetched.
  • kwinn wrote: »
    samuell wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    Roy Eltham wrote: »
    Chip,
    Any reason given for it taking so long? Or was the start delayed?

    I don't know why this has been so slow-going, but it was free. One more month.
    Well, that may mean that the P2 will not be ready this year. :(

    I would be happy with Q1-2017 and absolutely ecstatic if I could get one for Christmas.
    If it takes 4 months to get a chip after submitting it to tapeout the P2 would have to go into tapeout next week in order to get it by Christmas. And that doesn't include the time for Chip to test the P2 to make sure it works correctly. So I wouldn't hold out too much hope for this Christmas, or even Q1-2017. However, Christmas of 2017 seems like a possibility. Only 492 days until ChipMas! :)

  • JRetSapDoogJRetSapDoog Posts: 954
    edited 2016-08-19 21:12
    Time for a new countdown, Dave. I miss your little calendars. Visual aids of a sort, they were. Just need a new target date. How about June 1st, 2017, or June 21st, the start of summer? Those sound reasonable (unless a shuttle fails). I can hear Chip or Ken now, "No more countdowns until we have samples in hand." But countdowns have utility: they can keep things moving forward.

    Anyway, now that the design is nearly wrapped up, it's easier to wait (not that we want to push the release back any further, since time marches on and the world with it). We all have things to do while development goes forward. Of course, there's testing to do, but I meant that we can work on other things and continue using the P1. It's not like we've been trapped in an airplane on the tarmac for 12 hours with no idea when we'll take off or be let out (I guess there are laws against that nowadays in the US).

    Being trapped like that would drive me out of my mind, unless possibly I had access to the Internet or someone like Chip was sitting next to me and explaining his physical currency (Sorry, just watched a documentary on Sundance about Bitcoin, so currency was on my mind). In many ways, Propeller chips are coins of a sort for Parallax. Now their currency could be hot dogs or whatever, but it's chips. Of course, they make and sell other things, too, and for more money, but making chips seems more similar to minting coins. Now, of course, if the world's currencies collapsed, I'd opt for the hot dogs. But right now (having just eaten), I'm more hungry for some P2's to sink my teeth into, and chips don't have those nasty nitrates. Yes, I'll have an order of P2's and a side order of P1's, thank you. Okay, after reading this, now we're just that much closer to silicon.
  • The last we heard the shuttle is scheduled to finish on 9/22, which is less than a week now. Looking forward to seeing the results from the test chip.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,134
    Dave Hein wrote: »
    The last we heard the shuttle is scheduled to finish on 9/22, which is less than a week now. Looking forward to seeing the results from the test chip.

    Me, too! I think they bumped it out to the 29th, last I heard. There is packaging to be done by them, also. I don't know if that adds time. I need to get a board designed. They didn't have any 80-pin package, like I had planned for, so they're going to put it into a dual-row QFN-100. Here's the bond diagram for it:

    Prop2_Test_v1_Bond.png
    2132 x 2203 - 834K
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,171
    cgracey wrote: »
    ... I need to get a board designed. They didn't have any 80-pin package, like I had planned for, so they're going to put it into a dual-row QFN-100. Here's the bond diagram for it:
    Hmm.. Small, but not so easy to work with in small volumes. Could be fun mounting that in a lab...

    Idea: Is that also a possible smaller package for the final P2 ? (ie in addition to TQFP100)
    It would shrink size-important P2 designs, to same size as P1.

  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,134
    jmg wrote: »
    cgracey wrote: »
    ... I need to get a board designed. They didn't have any 80-pin package, like I had planned for, so they're going to put it into a dual-row QFN-100. Here's the bond diagram for it:
    Hmm.. Small, but not so easy to work with in small volumes. Could be fun mounting that in a lab...

    Idea: Is that also a possible smaller package for the final P2 ? (ie in addition to TQFP100)
    It would shrink size-important P2 designs, to same size as P1.

    Well, the die is 8.5 x 8.5mm - same as the package.
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