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Looking for: electrically-conductive hot melt glue — Parallax Forums

Looking for: electrically-conductive hot melt glue

GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
in General Discussion
So there's this "Wire Glue" that ThinkGeek and other sell, which is basically an adhesive with graphite. It's a low-end substitute for soldering. Bad news: it takes about 2 hours just to set up, and a day or two to cure. Yuck.

Anyone know of a similar ready-made product for a hot melt glue gun? If also using a graphite-based substance, I'm guessing it might not work as well, due to the heavier ratio of meltable poly to the graphite, but I thought I'd ask. Any metal-bearing hot melt glue would also work, if there is such a thing. Resistance isn't critical (these are low-tech bonds), so it it adds a hundred ohms for a globule, it's probably okay.

I've already ruled out the silver- and nickle-bearing "paints" and epoxies. They're both too expensive (my target is about $5 or less), and the paints don't have much bonding power.

Comments

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    The ultimate hot melt conductive glue is solder.

    What is wrong with that ?
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    Interesting idea. I don't have an answer, but you've identified a need and potential market. Copper particles in glue (and plenty of 'em) would conduct both heat and electricity.

    @Heater, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say safety (high temps) is Gordon's concern here, possibly for young players. Hot melt glue is cooler/safer than solder.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    erco,

    If that is true my mind boggles.

    I come from a time when we walked out of the house and were gone all day as soon as we could walk.

    At twelve years old we were soldering.

    At 13 we were glass blowing and trying to make a mercury switch.

    At 14 we were casting molten aluminium. Driving tractors. Being taught how to use industrial sized lathes, mills and shaping machines. Heck, at that age I could have left school and started to work down the coal mines. Luckily I escaped that fate.

    How old are these "young players"?

    Let them burn their fingers and get some reality under their belt.



  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2016-04-25 22:10
    Erco is right. To sell certain products into certain public schools, certain safety precautions need to be met. Living in the past has its unrewarding side. I'm sure you've heard the phrase, adapt or die.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 1,023
    As a former science teacher, I have had more burns from hot glue than from solder. When you get a big blob of hot glue on you it can be impossible to get off before a burn results.

    I taught 4th graders and up to use soldering irons and I still have 25 irons in storage. Never had a significant burn from them. Hot glue on the other hand resulted in a few minor burns. Neither has much chance of causing significant damage.

    Let us know if you find some though Gordon. I'll order some just to play with.

    Jonathan
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Gordon,

    I can well believe that if you want to sell product into the system that is, then you have to "adapt or die".

    On the other hand I believe that rearing our children in fluffy, warm, safety blankets is doing them a great dis-service.

    Reality bites.
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2016-04-25 22:59
    rear window defroster repair
    http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-21351-Electrically-Conductive-Defogger/dp/B000HBGKWE
    But this looks like what you are looking for (but Cures overnight)
    http://www.amazon.com/Sciplus-Electrically-Conductive-Soldering-Wire/dp/B000Z9H7ZW/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1461625803&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Electrically+Conductive+glue
  • SeairthSeairth Posts: 2,474
    How about some graphene PLA filament and this technique!
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,566
    There are 3d printing filaments that are conductive ... A derivative of this might work in a hot glue gun.

    http://www.blackmagic3d.com/Conductive-p/grphn-175.htm
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2016-04-26 01:08
    Some nice things to look into! Tony, The Wire Glue is the same stuff Geeks sells. It's not really a glue in that there is only a very weak bond. It's more of a congealing. The long cure time is a no-go when kids are involved.

    I'm going to contact the graphene filament people to see if they might consider making it in glue sticks for high-temp guns, or they might know someone who has this product already. Some teachers would be willing to do the bundle technique.

    Thanks to those who gave constructive suggestions.
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    If you did find something, and it still has long cure times I wonder if you can accelerate the process either chemically (like CA kicker) or heat.



  • PropGuy2PropGuy2 Posts: 360
    I have used 3M brand #3313 - copper foil tape with good results. Mainly for RF shielding and low voltage & low current PCB projects. It has an electrically conductive "Acrylic" adhesive on the copper foil.
  • Brian FairchildBrian Fairchild Posts: 549
    xanadu wrote: »
    ...accelerate the process either chemically (like CA kicker) or heat.

    My can of CA accelerator has on the label "Keep out of reach of children" !
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,566
    edited 2016-04-26 05:50
    "I'm going to contact the graphene filament people to see if they might consider making it in glue sticks for high-temp guns, or they might know someone who has this product already. Some teachers would be willing to do the bundle technique." ... Or ... If you know anybody with a machine shop and is skillful in that department? Reason I say this is because awhile back, a friend of mine made an metal insert/sleeve for a standard large size hot glue gun so that it would accept crayons. In this case the heat was too hot for the crayons, so the element was PWM'd in order for the right temp to be "dialed in" ... you could do something similar with the existing 3d filament and just modify the heating element instead.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    Brain Fairchild wrote:
    My can of CA accelerator has on the label "Keep out of reach of children" !
    And for good reason. That stuff is just plain nasty. I've been contemplating a way for my students to glue their model pontoon hulls together without requiring clamps and long cure times. On the prototype I built, I used CA glue with an aerosol accelerator. 'Worked great, but I was half dizzy by the time I was done. Unh-uh! No way for the kids! What I finally decided was to have them use hot-melt glue on one side of the joint, followed by CA glue (without the accelerator) on the other side. That way the hot-melt glue serves as a clamp of sorts, while the CA glue does the more permanent bonding.

    Back on topic: It might be an interesting experiment to melt hot-melt glue over the stove, blend powdered copper into it, then recast it into a form that would fit a glue gun. A Teflon tube could be used as a mold.

    -Phil
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    Given the quantities that could be involved (thousands to tens of thousands), I'm needing to spec out a commercially-available product; ideally one with at least two different sources. So mixing or making my own isn't an option. There's also the potential for non-US sales, and so there's a need to spec a company (or two) that already has the compliancy paperwork in hand.

    A hold melt gun operating in high temp runs at about 380 degrees F, which is about half that of a soldering gun, but still potentially dangerous. However, it's a tool many schools already use. It would be easier to sell in the concept if the tools were ones already approved by the districts.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    Phil: I use a lot of CA & zip kicker in my prototypes (and Weld-On, and MEK, lots of toxic stuff). Def use that with plenty of ventilation. Even worse is cutting/machining/sanding a cured fillet or puddle of the stuff. Cyanide gas is released, burning the eyes, nose & throat.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    Given the quantities that could be involved (thousands to tens of thousands), I'm needing to spec out a commercially-available product; ideally one with at least two different sources. So mixing or making my own isn't an option.

    How about if I made the conductive hot melt glue sticks? If we are talking tens of thousands this might be worth doing. If it works, other folks might be interested, and more folks would become producers. Maybe.

    What cost can yo afford? How much resistance can your circuits tolerate? i.e. In ohms per foot, etc?

  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    Thanks for the offer, but in this case, I wouldn't be buying anything. This is part of a book/curriculum, and individuals and schools would be purchasing. Sales would likely be over several years.

    To work, you'd need to have adequate liability insurance, D&B rating, and everything else that go into selling to public and private entities. If you're already set up with a business, ideally with a working online storefront (or distributors), it shouldn't be too hard to add this. Otherwise, it can be a real bear.

    I haven't yet had a chance to contact Black Magic 3D, but I will soon. and want to try a sample, even if I have to melt it with a shrinkwrap heat gun.
  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    If you have a 3d filament simply use a 3d pen like this one:

    http://www.amazon.com/Scribbler-3D-Pen-Printing-Doodling/dp/B00OT2SI9A

    Massimo
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    Not bad in general, but it's about $50 overpriced. Also, schools already have glue guns. (And glue guns are already on the approved safety list -- adding a 3D pen would entail the same school district paperwork hassle as a soldering iron. )

    Thanks for the idea, though.
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