Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
First internal SSD failure — Parallax Forums

First internal SSD failure

My desktop system, Gigabyte mini-itx board, Intel iCore3 3.3 GHz processor, 16 GB RAM, Samsung SSD 850 EVO, and Ubuntu 15.10. The symptoms are very interesting.

Basically, from a cold start, it gets through the BIOS stuff, like loading an OS and gets to the screen where it shows the Ubuntu in the center with the flashing big dots, and that is where it gets stuck. It does not go any further than that. I was expecting it to stop when it tried to load the OS, but it gets passed that.

To try too figure out what was going on, I ended up starting a Mint live disk. After about 5 minutes of CD drive thrashing, it finally started up. Next, checked to see if the SS drive was there, Mint showed the drive. When I tried to read the drive, again, it took awhile, but it finally showed the contents, with a note that some of the files and folders could not be read.

Now I am thinking that the boot sector was still somewhat viable, but the kernel or some parts of the files that are needed are corrupted, or the actual sectors on the drive, that hold that stuff, are dead.

I also was digging around for a standalone program that could check the drive, and maybe fix it?, but no such thing is available for the Linux stuff. And I was led to believe that Linux had every tool imaginable at your disposal. I guess, at this point, I could try to install Ubuntu again, and see how long it takes to get to next failure.

I am not sure if I want to turn this into a test box, checking how long between failures. The Samsung SSD package did come with a CD, but it is not a standalone, and I believe it needs a Windows OS to work. If I do get another SSD, I have to figure out which company makes the most reliable ones, or are they all more or less the same, from a reliability standpoint? Not sure what to try next, before I yank and toss.

Ray
«1

Comments

  • Rsadeika wrote: »
    I also was digging around for a standalone program that could check the drive, ... but no such thing is available for the Linux stuff.

    I won't touch on the "and maybe fix it" because that depends on the problem. Don't know what to search for until you know what the problem is. However, for discovering the problem, a quick Google showed this page: http://askubuntu.com/questions/325283/how-do-i-check-the-health-of-a-ssd

    Have you tried any of those tools?
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2016-04-05 19:13
    Google hdd diagnostic tool and pick a bootable one. Sorry, been so long since I have done that any other advice I could give is probably outdated.

    PS - Sorry, should have said ssd diagnostic tool. Old habits die hard.
  • Sounds like the drive has bad sectors. If you have a Live distro maybe boot that and check the top response here, it looks like Magician can/might work - http://askubuntu.com/questions/537471/samsung-magician-on-ubuntu-14-04

    That software is great, I'm surprised you have to dig around for Linux support for it.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-05 20:10
    I'll start by saying the 850EVO line is pretty new so the SSD won't be worn out. It also has a more reliable Flash memory than the earlier 840EVO line. GSmartControl is a GUI version of the one referred to in Daivd's link. Check over the Attributes and Error Log tabs for failures. There shouldn't be any failures.

    I'd speculate that you've managed to somehow corrupt the filesystem is all. A fresh install of Ubuntu may be the easiest fix.

  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-05 20:21
    What I like to do when installing Ubuntu is choose manual partitioning, make the fresh root partition of say 20GB and select my pre-existing home partition for the /home path. This means there is a lot less work for me to configure when reinstalling/upgrading/testing the OS or others. This needs the home volume to be on a separate partition of course - which is done the first time around.
  • Before reinstalling Ubuntu, boot off of a live CD and try running "sudo fsck -n /dev/<root partition>" (replacing <root partition> with your root partition, probably sda1 or something like that). If it finds any problems, run the command again without the "-n", to have it actually fix stuff.

    Also, before doing anything else, if you have a large unused external drive with enough free space, boot off of a live CD and use dd or ddrescue to copy the whole disk into a file or partition on the external drive.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-05 20:28
    Hmm, I assumed Unbuntu automatically does that. Good idea to check though.
  • What I did is a reinstall Ubuntu, it mentions that it is supposed to save a lot of the old installation. For this re-installation that is not what occurred.

    When I had the live disk running, the Disk Usage Analyzer showed that the SSD was ~245Gb available, and ~84GB used. After doing the re-install, it is now ~235GB available, and ~15GB used. So, it looks like about 80GB of files was lost.

    I did a re-install of Wine and tried the Samsung Magician disk, it would not run with Wine, now I will have to search some more for an SSD analyzer program. I guess this will be a test box.

    I also have my USB StarTech box which has 4 - 2TB drives attached, now I will see what is left on the re-install that can be saved to that. This is one aspect of Linux that I do not like, your home folder is on the SSD as a default install. At least with Windows, you can just have the OS on the SSD, and everything else goes to a different drive.

    Ray
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-05 21:11
    Have a look with GSmartControl instead.

    The Samsung Magician proggie gets hung up trying to phone home when on Wine. Err, that was printer diag tool I tried. I don't think I've even tried Samsung's proggie.
  • I installed the GSmartControl, nice little program, it identified the drive as SAMSUNG SSD 830 series, but I know for a fact, I have the 850 installed. I guess a minor discrepancy.

    Also, I did the Tests, and it came up with no errors(Passed). The other thing that I noticed is that it shows 238.47 GB capacity, while the Disk Usage Analyzer shows 235.1 GB capacity, whats a few GB difference, after all it is a desktop Linux.

    But the biggest problem is, what the heck happened? I shut the machine down last night, and this morning on startup I get the equivalent of the "blue screen of death". Yesterday when I was using the system, their was no indication that something was wrong. Where is the self healing Linux programs when you need them. If this happens again...

    Ray
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    Regarding capacity discrepancies: My partitioning software tells me the exact same value as gsmartcontrol but when I use df to get the combined volume sizes it comes up short. 232.89GB vs 228.98GB. So, yep, rest assured, there will be reasons for such discrepancies.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-05 22:29
    You'll note my discrepancy is larger than yours. That'll be because I've got two partitions and two ext4 volumes so double the related baggage.

    PS: I'm using an 840EVO for my main drive.

    PPS: Intriguing that you get about 5.5GB more free space on the 850 compared to the 840. Samsung have obviously adjusted the amount of reserved space given the total amount of physical flash memory is identical at exactly 256GB. Maybe that's a sign of how fast they expect the flash to wear.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    Ray,
    Electrodude's instruction gives the regular tool for volume repairs. It's too late for that now as you've already reinstalled but if it happens again you could investigate. You might get a good indicator of what is causing the problem as the repair tool will say what files are problematic.
  • Rsadeika wrote: »
    This is one aspect of Linux that I do not like, your home folder is on the SSD as a default install. At least with Windows, you can just have the OS on the SSD, and everything else goes to a different drive.

    You should read about manual partitioning and /etc/fstab. Putting the home partition on a separate drive is one of the easiest things to do on Linux when you install it. Almost all Linux distros recommend or at least suggest that you do this when you install them and usually make it very easy to do so. I would also personally recommend using anything but Ubuntu - it is the Windows of Linux and is very closed and often hard to fix.

    Also, only reinstall your OS as a last resort, and don't trust it claiming that it will preserve all of your data (as you just learned). I've fixed every Linux problem I've ever faced (that didn't have to do with a bad installation to begin with) without doing a reinstallation.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    Oi! The Ubuntu distro installer is pretty good at handling all that. Just have to select manual partitioning and be a little careful with the details.

    I use Kubuntu but I don't have any complaints with Ubuntu's behaviour in general. Distro wars a brewing is it? ... :P
  • Don MDon M Posts: 1,652
    And I just installed 4 Samsung EVO 850's in my various machines... The thing I like about Linux is the ease of re-install if necessary as compared to windows. At least that is my experience
  • Don MDon M Posts: 1,652
    But then these SSD's do have a warranty...
  • Rsadeika wrote: »
    My desktop system, Gigabyte mini-itx board, Intel iCore3 3.3 GHz processor, 16 GB RAM, Samsung SSD 850 EVO, and Ubuntu 15.10. The symptoms are very interesting.

    Basically, from a cold start, it gets through the BIOS stuff, like loading an OS and gets to the screen where it shows the Ubuntu in the center with the flashing big dots, and that is where it gets stuck. It does not go any further than that. I was expecting it to stop when it tried to load the OS, but it gets passed that.

    To try too figure out what was going on, I ended up starting a Mint live disk. After about 5 minutes of CD drive thrashing, it finally started up. Next, checked to see if the SS drive was there, Mint showed the drive. When I tried to read the drive, again, it took awhile, but it finally showed the contents, with a note that some of the files and folders could not be read.

    Now I am thinking that the boot sector was still somewhat viable, but the kernel or some parts of the files that are needed are corrupted, or the actual sectors on the drive, that hold that stuff, are dead.

    I also was digging around for a standalone program that could check the drive, and maybe fix it?, but no such thing is available for the Linux stuff. And I was led to believe that Linux had every tool imaginable at your disposal. I guess, at this point, I could try to install Ubuntu again, and see how long it takes to get to next failure.

    I am not sure if I want to turn this into a test box, checking how long between failures. The Samsung SSD package did come with a CD, but it is not a standalone, and I believe it needs a Windows OS to work. If I do get another SSD, I have to figure out which company makes the most reliable ones, or are they all more or less the same, from a reliability standpoint? Not sure what to try next, before I yank and toss.

    Ray

    Hello!
    Ray, where did you buy the thing? As with everything else you might want to check to see about your device warranty from the vendor, Samsung, and the one from where you bought it from. For example, 95 percent of what I buy branded by Parallax comes from Micro Center stores, any of three in New York State.

    Remember the technology is still growing up, there's a chance you might have gotten a duff ( definitely trying to be a failure) one.


  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    Buck,
    Ray has already confirmed the drive is in good health.
  • evanh wrote: »
    Buck,
    Ray has already confirmed the drive is in good health.

    Remember I suggested that he might have ended up with a duff one. The keyword was "might". Obviously the thing worked so the big problem is now working out which part of of it did do that.
  • Rsadeika wrote: »
    I installed the GSmartControl, nice little program, it identified the drive as SAMSUNG SSD 830 series, but I know for a fact, I have the 850 installed. I guess a minor discrepancy.

    Relabeling components and goods are so very common, I have seen plenty of electronic components with the right label but the tests reveal something completely different. I would accept that you know for a fact that the label says 850 series but I would not discount what the program is telling you. It is after all not looking at the label but at the actual chip IDs etc.

    In regards to Linux installs I have mentioned before about using USB Flash drives instead of CDs as CDs are so so slow, It takes about the same amount of time to "burn" a Flash drive as it does to burn a CD, but the Flash drive slips onto my keyring and fits any computer, even ones without CD drives. Also when it comes to installing on a computer I prefer to live boot and run gparted to setup my 20GB Linux system partition, another 20GB for playing with other distros, about 10GB or so for a swap. and the rest can be home partition. THEN I install Linux selecting "something else" and click the options.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    evanh wrote: »
    Buck,
    Ray has already confirmed the drive is in good health.

    Remember I suggested that he might have ended up with a duff one. The keyword was "might". Obviously the thing worked so the big problem is now working out which part of of it did do that.

    I think we can trust the internal error tracking of the drive itself to know when it has had any issues.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-06 04:43
    ... It is after all not looking at the label but at the actual chip IDs etc.

    Probably so. No actual model string in the drive's responses. The enquiring program just makes something up for human convenience.
  • evanh wrote: »
    ... It is after all not looking at the label but at the actual chip IDs etc.

    Probably so. No actual model string in the drive's responses. The enquiring program just makes something up for human convenience.

    Even SD "controller" chips respond with all kinds of ID and manufacturing information, I have used this to glean a lot of relevant information from various cards. Likewise SSD memory has SSD controller chips too and although I haven't looked into the details of these I would not expect them to be less so than SD controllers.

    If I had performed the same tests as Ray I know that I would then be questioning the authenticity of the product itself, or perhaps the supplier. Especially since there seems to be problems with the drive. A genuine drive would not report back as another model.

  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-06 05:38
    Opps, what I meant is the ID number will be an 850EVO number, just that Ray's version of GSmartControl is likely out of date so only recognises the make ID not the model ID. So the program defaults to the earliest Samsung model in its list of SSDs, or something like that.

    I'll have a look at how to display the reported ID numbers when I get home ...
  • Interesting way to start the morning:
    Update information
    Data files for some packages could not be downloaded

    The following packages requested additional data downloads after package installation, but the data could not be downloaded or could not be processed.

    ttf-mscorefonts-installer

    This is a permanent failure that leaves these packages unusable on your system. You may need to fix your Internet connection, then remove and reinstall the packages to fix this problem.
    I had a Windows 10 installed at one time, on this box, and that system never had an Internet connection problem.
    I still like Ubuntu. I think I still like Linux. I still like Ubuntu...

    Their is a question that has been asked, and the answer is, this particular unit, I put together myself. So, I am very sure that the parts I used were genuine, like for instance, the Samsung SSD. I purchased those from NewEgg, which came in the original packaging.

    Thanks for all the responses, I am still determined to figure out what exactly happened to jam up my system. Although I do remember an incidence with, I think it was Mint 16, but, on an off the shelf tower that I had. I remember I installed the OS, which was working as expected, and then one time, on a cold start, the desktop window shrunk down, and the system kept rebooting itself. I never figured that one out. After that incident I installed other OS's, and those worked without any problems.

    Now I have to check and see if PropellerIDE and SimpleIDE are still there and functional, although spincvt got carried over and is functional, after I re-installed tklib, that is.

    Ray
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-06 11:18
    Rsadeika wrote: »
    This is a permanent failure that leaves these packages unusable on your system. You may need to fix your Internet connection, then remove and reinstall the packages to fix this problem.

    Try running the memory test from the boot menu. You're not overclocking at all are you?
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    edited 2016-04-06 11:15
    Okay, I've run the appropriate command on my 840EVO and got an actual full model string returned. So the full name is stored on the drive itself as far as I can tell. Here's the first lines from the full info dump:
    evanh@control:~$ sudo smartctl --identify /dev/sda
    smartctl 6.2 2013-07-26 r3841 [x86_64-linux-3.13.0-83-generic] (local build)
    Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

    === ATA IDENTIFY DATA ===
    Word Bit Value Description

    0 - 0x0040 General configuration
    0 6 1 Not removable controller and/or device [OBS-6]

    1 - 0x3fff Cylinders [OBS-6]

    2 - 0xc837 Specific configuration (0x37c8/738c/8c73/c837)

    3 - 0x0010 Heads [OBS-6]

    6 - 0x003f Sectors per track [OBS-6]

    10-19 - . Serial number (String)
    10-13 . [removed]
    14-17 . [removed]
    18-19 . [removed]

    23-26 - . Firmware revision (String)
    23-26 . [removed]

    27-46 - . Model number (String)
    27-30 . 0x5361:6d73:756e:6720 "Samsung "
    31-34 . 0x5353:4420:3834:3020 "SSD 840 "
    35-38 . 0x4556:4f20:3235:3047 "EVO 250G"
    39-42 . 0x4220:2020:2020:2020 "B "
    43-46 . 0x2020:2020:2020:2020 " "
  • I am sure glad I did not bet the farm on this one, the Ubuntu box has a Samsung SSD 830 Series, it is my Gigabyte Brix that has the Samsung SSD 850 EVO. So, the GSmartControl program is identifying correctly. Now that I got that straight, moving on to a backup program.

    Oh, I had to download PropellerIDE, and I got the "Internet connection" window pop up, again. Not sure why this is occurring, my other machine does not have the "Internet connection" problem, so is there something wrong with the Ethernet on my motherboard? When I installed Ubuntu, I am making an assumption the installation process was correct for this.

    I am starting to get a bad vibe with all of this, not sure if it is software or hardware issues.

    Ray
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,916
    Oh, a web browser works, right?
Sign In or Register to comment.