Upgrade Path For Elev-8 V2 Owners
GlassKNees
Posts: 181
I like some of the features that have been incorporated into the V3 Elev-8, in particular the higher performance motors. But I'm disappointed that Parallax didn't provide an upgrade path for those of us who have V2 ships. I have two Elev-8 V2 ships and I'm happy with them, but would like to improve their flight endurance time. I would like to replace my KA20-20L 1050 KV motors with the KEDA 1000 kV, or something similar. But I have to determine if I need to replace my ESCs as well or is there some compelling reason to replace them??
Also, I need to fabricate a motor mount that will accommodate the new motor but can fit on my V2 booms using the existing holes. If anyone has a solution, I'd love to hear from you; if I come up with one first, I'll share it here.
Also, I need to fabricate a motor mount that will accommodate the new motor but can fit on my V2 booms using the existing holes. If anyone has a solution, I'd love to hear from you; if I come up with one first, I'll share it here.
Comments
To answer your question about the ESCs. Yes, I recommend you get the new ESCs. While you'll get the best results by fully transitioning the the ELEV-8 v3, I think you'll probably get decent improvement by switching out your drive system (but I can't make any promises since I haven't tried it myself). In your case, I think the improved efficiency & reliability, active braking, programming, and beacon feature of the Parallax xRotor 20A ESCs would be worth the extra cost over the older ESCs.
The new motors should fit in the old motor mounts if you can get the wires to behave (I don't know which direction they will come out of the motor when it's bolted to the mount). You'll also probably need some short (a few inches) extension wires - I don't think the wires of the new motors are long enough to go all the way through the old booms. Alternatively, you could drill new holes in your booms and use the new motor mounts (but they won't be as solid on the older 5/8" booms). Or you could piece together an ELEV-8 v3 w/o flight controller by buying parts individually. Or (most likely) design a whole new solution I haven't thought of. I realize none of these solutions are "ideal", but based on what I've seen you do so far, I have no doubt you'll find a solution!
You might also find this handy spreadsheet I made comparing the ELEV-8 v2, v3, and Complete kits to be useful - but be prepared, it's pretty dense.
Happy Flying!
-Kyle
PS - If you want an explanation for how I handled compatibility in the ELEV-8 v3 design process, read on.
In the design process of any product revision, there come countless decisions that affect compatibility, usually trading off performance/features and maintaining backwards compatibility, and the ELEV-8 v3 Quadcopter was no different. While the ELEV-8 v2 was almost completely backwards-compatible with the ELEV-8 v1, that was not without consequence, as many upgrades had to be tabled to maintain compatibility. Going into the design and engineering process of the ELEV-8 v3, I knew I wanted to make the best quadcopter kit I could, and that meant I couldn't be constrained by the limitations of maintaining all backwards compatibility. That's not to say I completely ignored the v2 - I carefully considered every decision that would impact compatibility, weighing the costs and benefits. In many cases (like the motor mounts) the superior performance of the new design justified sacrificing backwards compatibility, while other times (like the landing gear), I didn't have a convincing reason to change what was, in my opinion, working well. I realize that unfortunately knowing this probably won't solve anything or make it any easier for you
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So my first question is if the V3 flight controller uses the same signals to communicate with the ESC's. I'll probably be able to answer that question later this afternoon once I get it installed.
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@GlassKnees - Let's use this thread to post pictures and experience with upgrading our V2's. I'll start by posting this afternoon once I get the V3 flight controller installed.
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@Kyle - Since the ELEV-8's seem to be a "flagship" product, would it be possible to get a dedicated forum space to discuss these flying robots? Is there somewhere else on the intertubes where all of the ELEV-8 owners pool their knowledge?
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The min/max throttle ranges might be different, so if you didn't get the ESCs from Parallax that are pre-set you'll likely need to do a throttle range calibration to tell your ESCs what the range of output signals is from the FC.
V2 ESC's will plug directly into the V3 controller. Same with the Receiver ports.
motors
http://innov8tivedesigns.com/parts/brushless-motors/cobra-cm-2217-20-brushless-motor-kv-950
esc's
http://innov8tivedesigns.com/manufacturers/cobra/cobra-30a-opto-multirotor-esc
I upgraded to a flip32 after my hoverfly open died
and a 5200 4s pack makes a big difference for performance.
-dan
Spent a couple hours tonight refitting my stock V2 with the V3 controller board.
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The first thing I noticed was that the mounting holes on the V3 were much smaller than the V2. I used a thin stepper drill to open up the holes to 7/32" diameter. That allowed me to insert the V2's vibration dampers.
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The next step was to move the ESC control wires from the front of the quad to the right side. I had to mostly disassemble the ELEV-8 to move those wires.
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The new controller board also allowed me to install a Futaba S-Bus receiver, resulting in a much cleaner installation. Also, using only one receiver port opens up all of the other pins for future expansion.
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Before I power this thing up, I wanted to make sure it was OK to use the ESCs to power the controller as it is, or do I need to re-route the power to the connector and disconnect the red wires.
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The ESC header 5V pins have a protective diode out- they are configured to provide 5V out, but not "accept" 5V in.
This means, you can leave power going to the ESC headers if you want to (ie. no need to butcher the cables), but you still need to provide power to the flight controller VIN directly from the battery.
The new power distribution board is a fairly neat way to accomplish all that, which you would stack under the flight controller. If you don't have that, then some sort of servo-cable mod to tap into the cables coming direct from the battery would also work. VIN will take 6-18 volts. Ie. designed for battery pack voltage.
Add: You really don't want to (I'd say MUST NOT) power the new flight controller from the ESC (BEC) supply. They are prone to failure, even more so at higher current draw (ie. running the whole flight controller and accessories). Plus in this case, your BEC's likely don't provide high enough voltage anyway. The flight controller may work, but not safely or reliably. Please don't do it- that's my advice! Get a power cable from the battery voltage direct into the flight controller.
Hope that helps.
That helps a lot, I figured as much. I'm having a hard time sifting thru all of the documentation, it seems to be spread out all over the place, but that's just me. Hopefully this thread will help us air out what works and what doesn't.
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What is the "beacon feature"? . .
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Yes, what is this beacon feature you speak of?
I'm hoping its a typo and he meant "bacon". I think having a bacon feature would be industry leading.
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First goof-up. Plugged the ESC's into the wrong ports. That's what I get for doing electrical work after 11 pm.
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Now I'm working on getting the S-Bus channels sorted.
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Blheli ECS's have an audible "beacon". They will beep after a period of inactivity to help you find your craft.
@xanadu is exactly correct. The ESCs are configured (with the BLHeli Firmware) to "beep" the motors after 10 minutes of inactivity. Both the delay and the volume can be configured with BLHeliSuite. The thought is to help you locate a lost craft.
@FireNWater
I'm certainly a fan of the idea. I'll ask.
Just today, I ordered a couple of V2 Plates so I could drill for the new dampeners.
I wish there was a thumbs up emoticon on here.
An important note for anyone trying to improvise an isolation assembly on the v2: make sure you use the hole pattern from the v3 top chassis plate drawing, not the isolation plate. The holes are offset slightly (5mm I think) to improve horizontal damping.
Will order some later today. .
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It's OK, Kyle . . . I've been known to use the phrase "Hold my beer and watch this" more than once . . .
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The force of the collision put a small dent in the stucco as well as the storm drain. I've offered to pay for the damage... The quad it totaled, so I'm going to strip it for spare parts. There will be no more test flights at home, not even a short hover test - I will restrict all flying in a large grassy field...
Yesterday, I tried to fly my Tarot hex ship, but when I plugged in the battery, nothing happened. So I spent quite a bit of time taking it apart and troubleshooting. Nothing was obvious from a visual inspection, so I did some voltage checks. No voltage was read where I soldered the APM power module leads to the chassis. suspecting the power module had somehow gone bad, I pulled the module from my crashed quad. Voltage check on it was good, so I swapped out the module, only to discover that it wasn't the problem. I was just about to give up but accidentally discovered that the wire leads from the battery to the power module was the culprit. I fabricated a new set of leads and I've just reassembled the aircraft. But I have to replace the gimbal control board, so hopefully I'll have it ready to fly by tomorrow evening.
Getting back to upgrading, I'm wondering about outfitting my Elev-8 with the V3 motors will really give me better endurance times. I flew my ship this morning under light breezy conditions and I only got about 3 minutes flying time before it started descending and would not respond to my increase throttle commands. I hit RTL and the ship did came back and landed okay. I'm about to pull the log files to see if indeed I hit the voltage failsafe. I need to fine a scale to weigh my aircraft - I know that it's heavier as it has an aluminum boom for hanging the Tarot 2D gimbal and GoPro camera, and I've got a GPS mast and antenna, a telemetry transceiver and video transmitter. Oh, and I added the standoffs to the landing gear to provide more ground clearance for the camera....
I'd like to get something more like 15 minutes. I'm wondering if I should consider larger motors, like say, the Tarot 4006 620KV. I'm sure the Tarot motor mounts will fit on the booms and the ESC's would mount underneath the motors. Any thoughts?
I plan to take both machines to a local bike shop - they have a scale which I think will give me a fairly accurate weight measurement.
I'd like to use my Elev-8 as a video platform, and I'd be okay with 15 - 20 flight times. If I do do with the Tarot motors, I'd use a 4S lipo...
I'm pretty happy with my Tarot hex, but I think my next ship will be a quad - would like to shoot for 30 min endurance with a stabilized camera.
Which 11" carbon props were you using?
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The only mods I needed to make was to add another V2 flight controller mounting plate and (8) of the V3 vibration dampening thingys. The rubber thingys fit perfectly into the slots of the V2 mounting plate, so no drilling was required. I added (4) 1/4" 4-40 bolts to hold the bottom plate, and (4) 3/4" 4-40 bolts to secure the cover plate (you could also simply use the stock bolts and nuts and cut to length). I will use 4-40 blind nuts on the top mounting plate to secure the 3/4" bolts.
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