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Need a giant lot of used Parallax boards? — Parallax Forums

Need a giant lot of used Parallax boards?

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  • That's a pretty boss collection.
  • localroger wrote: »
    That's a pretty boss collection.

    Ha! The first thing I thought of after seeing all those boards -- imagining them paralleled together under some mountain in Colorado -- and then your post, was the now infamous line: "In time you will come to regard me not only with respect and awe, but with love."

    Parallax stills sells a speech synthesizer, doesn't it?

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    Wait... is Humanoido parting out the BASIC Stamp Supercomputer?
  • @Gordon... the Forbin Project! :-)
  • ajward wrote: »
    @Gordon... the Forbin Project! :-)

    Exactly. I always think of when when I see Roger's avatar.

  • The Forbin Project is a really great story, probably the first story ever told about what some people now call the technological singularity. It's both hilariously dated and very smart, both in D.F. Jones' original book and the 1974 movie from which I took my avatar.

    And considering the power of computers in the late 1960's when D.F. Jones wrote it, a pile of Basic Stamps and Propellers like that in the OP probably would be able to cheat Colossus at poker and talk it into sharing the launch codes.
  • I recently read the trilogy from Amazon... 'Colossus', 'The Fall of Colossus', and 'Colossus and the Crab'. Very interesting story that goes beyond what I remember in the movie.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,451
    edited 2016-03-20 14:32
    The Forbin movie covered only Colossus, and tightened the story up a bit at that. Fall and Crab were not as good, partly because they suffered a lot more from the way computers were regarded before the discovery of chaos theory. In the 1950's people like John von Neumann seriously thought a sufficiently advanced computer would be a "perfect prediction machine," capable of accurate weather forecasts months out and easily unravelling complex biological systems. D.F. Jones may have worked with von Neumann, since he got his computer chops building information systems for the British royal navy, but we aren't sure because of the secrecy. Anyway Jones' naval experience comes out almost to a silly extent in Crab and the perfect prediction angle is a major plot device in Fall.

    Anyway Forbin is a movie that stands on a lot more than its (very good) ideas; Eric Braeden (my avatar!) really puts across Forbin's bewilderment and anger as his life's work spins out of control into something he doesn't recognize. All of the human characters have rich interrelationships, particularly female uber-nerd Cleo and Forbin. (Cleo, played wonderfully by Susan Clark, is based more than a little on real life Admiral Grace Hopper.) It's hilarious to see the "video terminals" which are clearly projectors and "video conferencing terminals" made from Vidicon style CRT tubes sticking up out of wired desks. This was all super high tech in 1970, and it's one of the last movies made when computers were still too expensive and mysterious for a movie studio to arrange for a real one to use as a prop. Yet, even today, the performances and the smart script full of clever zingers make it worth seeing.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    localroger,

    It seems that with the mind set of Newtonian mechanics that held sway for 200 hundred years of so such "perfect prediction" was quite conceivable. In principle at least. The universe was made out of nice simple particles that followed nice simple physical laws. If you could know the masses, charges, positions and velocities of every particle you could calculate the progress of the universe forever into the future, and forever backwards in history. It runs like clockwork right?

    That idea got upset with the realization that little particles don't do what you might expect in the Newtonian model. Hence Quantum Mechanics in the 1900's where all of a sudden things happen at random with some statistical distribution. Classical determinism is lost.

    It got worse in the 1920's when Heisenberg pointed out we could never measure anything much to an arbitrary precision. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

    Chaos theory was not really a thing until Edward Lorenz wrote his paper in the early 1970's. A new kid on the block, we had already given up hope of accurately predicting the future many years before.

    I'm not sure what use Chaos Theory has come to, as opposed to QM that still continues to make accurate models of elementary particle physics. But it does serve to remind computer users how fallible there machines can be. Especially when they rely on floating point Math :)

    Turing, in an abstract mathematical way, assumed a compute engine with infinite memory and an infinite time to run. For such a machine calculating the square root of 2 or Pi is taken as natural.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2016-03-20 17:06
    Colossus: TFP is by now dated, both visually and technologically, but it's a great story for those of us who consider the human-machine relationship. When they made the film in 1970, its premise was still far off and impractical from a technical standpoint, but it is by now within the realm of possibility.

    An often forgotten element of the film is the notion of 24/7 surveillance, which exists in certain forms today. So aside from all the relay clacking, gompy cameras, and tube-style terminals that make this a fun venture in kitsch, there are still some worrying insights that are amazing prescient.

    There are lots of really low budget touches to this film, but I consider them as adding flavor. Starting with the theatrical release poster, I'm guessing they couldn't afford a poster artist like Robert McGinnis (http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Robert-E-McGinnis/dp/1781162174), so instead, they just took frame stills, airbrushed over them to sorta-kinda look like the art was painted, and combined them in a clumsy montage. Still, the poster merely adds to the mod factor, and makes the film all that more enjoyable today.

  • You write so well, Gordon, that you really ought to become a writer. Oh wait...

    :)
  • Heater, the predictive ability that chaos theroy put a fork in had nothing to do with QM. The big example is the weather; predicting the weather has nothing to do with QM and it was widely thought right up into the 1980's that computer weather models would become capable of great accuracy if they were perfected. It was really Benoit Mandelbrot who began the end of that idea, and it still refused to die in a lot of circles until well into the 1990's by which time the math was really well established.

    It would not matter if the Universe were completely deterministic and there was no Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle preventing its perfect measurement; it could well be that even such a system while "predictable" would be the simplest system capable of actually predicting its own future behavior. So unless you have access to a computer the same size as the Universe but running several times faster, the "predictability" of the Universe would be of no practical benefit even if it existed.

    The other important thing which chaos theory undid was, of course, the idea that in order for the Universe to look the way it does, with so much interesting detail and activity, it must be the product of conscious design. Many models now exist for creating complex systems from ridiculously simplistic generative algorithms, I expect that in the fullness of time this will turn out to be one of the most important mathematical results of the 20th century.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2016-03-21 00:14
    I saw Colossus once, many moons ago. I better watch it again. Don't hit the green PLAY NOW button, wait a minute for the JW viewer to load then press the embedded play button and go full screen.

    http://putlocker.is/watch-colossus-the-forbin-project-online-free-putlocker.html
  • Don't forget, erco, you were not born wearing a wristwatch.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2016-03-23 10:55
    erco,

    I accidentally hit the PLAY NOW button. After getting buried in advertising I found the embedded play button requires me to register.

    On the other hand I accidentally found it here:



    :)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    localroger,

    I agree, Chaos theory and QM are very different things. The former comes about because of sensitivity to initial conditions, that later is, well just
    how nature does things.

    My only little point, perhaps badly stated, is that I think determinism was already on the chopping block even in the days of classical mechanics and before Chaos Theory.

    For example, whilst we have nice neat analytic solutions for two bodies moving under the influence of their gravitational attraction no such solutions were found for three or more bodies, "the many body problem". Never mind thousands, millions .. bazillions of bodies like in a complex system like the weather.

    I just have a feeling that not many physicists would have believed that predicting the future like that was practical.

    On the other hand, mathematicians are quite happy to deal with infinities and infinitesimals so perhaps for many it still looked like a simple case of just needing the required precision in measurement and calculation. Weather men for example.

    I'm not sure the realization that complexity can arise from very simple systems does anything to undo ideas about "conscious design". The proponents of intelligent design can just move the goal posts, as they often do. For example they could say "Yes, simple systems and rules can give rise to all the complexity we see around us, including ourselves, but the great designer set up those rules knowing full well what the outcome would be".

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    Back OT, that lot of 57 boards sold for $262.77, so just over $4 per board. A pretty boss deal.
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