Thing is a 64 bit OS is going to need more RAM space and we are still at 1GB. So the gains of moving to a 64 bit OS may not be so great.
Yup, seems more to do with marketing than engineering.
The OS works best at 32b, at least until you get above 4GB of RAM - what else is 64b in the change.
Are there actually useful things, like better precision maths ?
eg 32*32 -> 64 and 64/32 -> 32 or 64*64 -> 128 and 128/64, or better floating point ?
Yup, seems more to do with marketing than engineering.
I don't know, perhaps it's just a natural evolution. I have read that the actual ARM cores on the Pi only take up 5% of the die area, the rest of it is GPU. So why not take a bit more space and go 64 bits?
[quote
Are there actually useful things, like better precision maths ?
[/quote]
A good question.
I recall when a project team I worked with got all their 286 based PC replaced with new Compaq 386 boxes. That is a jump from 16 bits to 32. The performance boost was huge, like 4 or 6 times. Even running the same old crappy MMSDOS and all the other tools we used. I idly speculated that perhaps a factor of two came form the doubled memory bandwidth. Another factor of two from the increased clock speed, and then some more due to improved pipelining and caching. We were so happy, the first decent processor from Intel!
I don't see such boosts coming from the switch from 32 bit to 64 bit ARM.
One would like to think that the 64 bit data bus would help, do 64 bit ARM SoCs even actually have a 64 bit external data bus width?
Unlike back in the day clock speeds have not doubled either.
But still. 64 bit float maths should be quicker, excellent news for Javascript where all numbers are 64 bit floats.
Hopefully somebody can come back with some info about the built in WiFi, like how close to the WiFi router you will have to be to get a working signal. Same info would be helpful for the built in BT.
The race is on! One on order from Pimoroni; one on order from PiSupply (both in UK ) and one on order from MCM Electronics here in Good Old Ohio.
Raspberry Pi organization told Raspberry Pi Guy wireless is better than current mobile devices.
The lack of a memory upgrade is a surprise. Memory costs may put them so close to their margins that it pushes them over $35 and isn't as needed or in as big of a demand as CPU/WiFi/BT have been? It would be an absolute desktop killer with 4GB of RAM and 64bits.
I imagine the WIFI is as good if not better than a typical WIFI dongle. With the added bonus that you can fit an antenna if need be.
It's a shame about the 1G memory. I have a feeling it's down to the SoC package and board layout. More memory address lines means a new package and more board space for the tracks. Seems that board is pretty tight as it is.
A few Pointers
=============
BCM2837 – a brand new SoC (System on Chip) produced by Broadcom. This represents a significant improvement on earlier versions of the Raspberry
the Raspberry Pi 3’s GPU has also been boosted, making it better able to handle video content and games. The Broadcom VideoCore IV processor is now clocked at 400MHz for video processing, and 300MHz for 3D graphics
ARM Cortex-A53 microarchitecture, which implements the more advanced ARMv8-A instruction set.
Benchmarks produced by Pimoroni concluded that the Raspberry Pi 3 significantly surpasses the older models both single-core and multi-core tasks (a 35% and 48% improvement, respectively). The only let-down is boot times remain sluggish, due them being bottlenecked by slow I/O (input-output), rather than a slow CPU.
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity, courtesy of the onboard BCM43438 wireless “combo” chip. This supports 802.11n wireless LAN, and the Bluetooth 4.1 standard, including Bluetooth LE (Bluetooth Low Energy).
But more excitingly, the Raspberry Pi 3 is a great out-of-the-box solution for anyone with an interest in robotics and the Internet of Things (IoT), as you can connect it to other devices and computers without any intermediate hardware.
Power consumption has soared with the addition BCM43438 chip. While you can still power it using a bog-standard 5V micro-USB adapter, the Raspberry Pi foundation recommends you use a 2.5A charger, particularly if you intend to connect power-hungry USB devices to it.
Another significant improvement is found in the Micro SD slot. The Raspberry Pi 2 used a spring-loaded Micro SD slot, which was prone to breaking and ultimately became an area of complaint for Raspberry Pi owners. Some even resorted to homemade hacks, like covering their MicroSD slot with duct-tape, to prevent their storage media being prematurely ejected.
Thankfully, the Raspberry Pi 3 ditches the spring altogether, which we hope is a permanent change.
ARM Cortex-A53 microarchitecture, which implements the more advanced ARMv8-A instruction set.
Benchmarks produced by Pimoroni concluded that the Raspberry Pi 3 significantly surpasses the older models both single-core and multi-core tasks (a 35% and 48% improvement, respectively). The only let-down is boot times remain sluggish, due them being bottlenecked by slow I/O (input-output), rather than a slow CPU.
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity, courtesy of the onboard BCM43438 wireless “combo” chip. This supports 802.11n wireless LAN, and the Bluetooth 4.1 standard, including Bluetooth LE (Bluetooth Low Energy).
But more excitingly, the Raspberry Pi 3 is a great out-of-the-box solution for anyone with an interest in robotics and the Internet of Things (IoT), as you can connect it to other devices and computers without any intermediate hardware.
"IoT" is not about the devices. It's about companies wanting to tie all your devices to their "cloud" servers with their protocols and services for fun and profit.
I agree, the Pi is not a great internet connected light bulb device. Or whatever. It may however be a great hub for such things, and thus save us from the clutches of those corporations circling around the IoT landscape,
So, does the BCM43438 connect as a USB device, like the Ethernet does, or is it connected directly to the processor? Prior versions of the Pi have had some serious (IMHO) resource issues when trying to use Ethernet and an external HDD at the same time.
I think I read it was SPI connected, but that may impact users IO resource -seems there is no free lunch.
I wonder what Serial UART ( & SPI) speeds this new Core can support/sustain ?
May prove a good way to test P2 Serial above 12MBd, on something other than another P2 ?
I did find this re SPI, ( UART was limited to 4MBd by OS, unclear if that is still true ? )
The Raspberry Pi SPI runs at APB clock speed, which is equivalent to core clock speed, 250 MHz. This can be divided by any even number from 2 to 65536 for the desired speed. The datasheet specifies that the divisor must be a power of two, but this is incorrect. Odd numbers are rounded down, and 0 (or 1) is equivalent to 65536. A divisor smaller than 2 is therefore impossible.
This makes the frequency range be from 3.814 kHz to 125 MHz, with 32768 steps in between.
(There has been a lot of misinformation on this matter, but these results have been verified by experimentation. Please spread the word.)
Can't find if the APB Bus has changed in Pi 3, some clocks moved 250MHz -> 400MHz
I did not find anyone claiming 125MHz tests, but I did see this
Hmm, those given numbers, suggest the odd-round-down, is incorrect too.
Looks to be 250MHz/N (N>=2) granular on SPI CLK
and this thread https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=130326
suggest the Linux/Pi is rather stuck in the Dark Ages around Baud support.
Code that was working, stops with revisions (Feb 12, 2016) , and those providing the Kernel want to dictate what bauds you can use.
With the industry trend to finer Baud control, (now 48M/(N+f/8) is common on USB-UART devices, they really should sort this,
Not SPI but SDIO, looks similar but MOSI and MISO is on a shared trace with a z-state bit for one clock during switchover.
most likely quad for improved bandwidth.
I just discovered the the local electronics store here in Helsinki, an RS distributor, was selling out it's Pi 2 stock at half price last week. Obviously preparing for the Pi 3 launch this week.
Comments
Thing is a 64 bit OS is going to need more RAM space and we are still at 1GB. So the gains of moving to a 64 bit OS may not be so great.
Still, for my home made Linux kernel + V8 JavaScript engine OS I think 64 bit will be a significant performance boost. We shall see...
The OS works best at 32b, at least until you get above 4GB of RAM - what else is 64b in the change.
Are there actually useful things, like better precision maths ?
eg 32*32 -> 64 and 64/32 -> 32 or 64*64 -> 128 and 128/64, or better floating point ?
[quote
Are there actually useful things, like better precision maths ?
[/quote]
A good question.
I recall when a project team I worked with got all their 286 based PC replaced with new Compaq 386 boxes. That is a jump from 16 bits to 32. The performance boost was huge, like 4 or 6 times. Even running the same old crappy MMSDOS and all the other tools we used. I idly speculated that perhaps a factor of two came form the doubled memory bandwidth. Another factor of two from the increased clock speed, and then some more due to improved pipelining and caching. We were so happy, the first decent processor from Intel!
I don't see such boosts coming from the switch from 32 bit to 64 bit ARM.
One would like to think that the 64 bit data bus would help, do 64 bit ARM SoCs even actually have a 64 bit external data bus width?
Unlike back in the day clock speeds have not doubled either.
But still. 64 bit float maths should be quicker, excellent news for Javascript where all numbers are 64 bit floats.
Ray
Raspberry Pi organization told Raspberry Pi Guy wireless is better than current mobile devices.
The lack of a memory upgrade is a surprise. Memory costs may put them so close to their margins that it pushes them over $35 and isn't as needed or in as big of a demand as CPU/WiFi/BT have been? It would be an absolute desktop killer with 4GB of RAM and 64bits.
I imagine the WIFI is as good if not better than a typical WIFI dongle. With the added bonus that you can fit an antenna if need be.
It's a shame about the 1G memory. I have a feeling it's down to the SoC package and board layout. More memory address lines means a new package and more board space for the tracks. Seems that board is pretty tight as it is.
Still, it's a wonderful thing none the less.
I found this comment out on the RaspberryPi Blog
Still, it is a wonderful thing! The best peripheral you can hang off of a Propeller!!
And the price compares favourably to a Prop Plug, which it makes redundant
Not unless you have a USB adapter with your SSD, like my Samsung EVOs.
You can also use USB sticks, or network shares.
In my book that is NFS, but SAMBA works just fine.
You did. Must be a faster typist or have fewer distractions atm than I do.
USB adapter sounds interesting if the Pi can boot from it. NAS seems like a kluge.
That level of boot code is in the SoC.
But of course the kernel booted from said SD card can use pretty much anything as it's root file system.
A few Pointers
=============
BCM2837 – a brand new SoC (System on Chip) produced by Broadcom. This represents a significant improvement on earlier versions of the Raspberry
the Raspberry Pi 3’s GPU has also been boosted, making it better able to handle video content and games. The Broadcom VideoCore IV processor is now clocked at 400MHz for video processing, and 300MHz for 3D graphics
ARM Cortex-A53 microarchitecture, which implements the more advanced ARMv8-A instruction set.
Benchmarks produced by Pimoroni concluded that the Raspberry Pi 3 significantly surpasses the older models both single-core and multi-core tasks (a 35% and 48% improvement, respectively). The only let-down is boot times remain sluggish, due them being bottlenecked by slow I/O (input-output), rather than a slow CPU.
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity, courtesy of the onboard BCM43438 wireless “combo” chip. This supports 802.11n wireless LAN, and the Bluetooth 4.1 standard, including Bluetooth LE (Bluetooth Low Energy).
But more excitingly, the Raspberry Pi 3 is a great out-of-the-box solution for anyone with an interest in robotics and the Internet of Things (IoT), as you can connect it to other devices and computers without any intermediate hardware.
Power consumption has soared with the addition BCM43438 chip. While you can still power it using a bog-standard 5V micro-USB adapter, the Raspberry Pi foundation recommends you use a 2.5A charger, particularly if you intend to connect power-hungry USB devices to it.
Another significant improvement is found in the Micro SD slot. The Raspberry Pi 2 used a spring-loaded Micro SD slot, which was prone to breaking and ultimately became an area of complaint for Raspberry Pi owners. Some even resorted to homemade hacks, like covering their MicroSD slot with duct-tape, to prevent their storage media being prematurely ejected.
Thankfully, the Raspberry Pi 3 ditches the spring altogether, which we hope is a permanent change.
ARM Cortex-A53 microarchitecture, which implements the more advanced ARMv8-A instruction set.
Benchmarks produced by Pimoroni concluded that the Raspberry Pi 3 significantly surpasses the older models both single-core and multi-core tasks (a 35% and 48% improvement, respectively). The only let-down is boot times remain sluggish, due them being bottlenecked by slow I/O (input-output), rather than a slow CPU.
Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity, courtesy of the onboard BCM43438 wireless “combo” chip. This supports 802.11n wireless LAN, and the Bluetooth 4.1 standard, including Bluetooth LE (Bluetooth Low Energy).
=====================================================================================================
@ heater
RE: I'm not sure IoT is necessarily an aim here.
But more excitingly, the Raspberry Pi 3 is a great out-of-the-box solution for anyone with an interest in robotics and the Internet of Things (IoT), as you can connect it to other devices and computers without any intermediate hardware.
"IoT" is not about the devices. It's about companies wanting to tie all your devices to their "cloud" servers with their protocols and services for fun and profit.
I agree, the Pi is not a great internet connected light bulb device. Or whatever. It may however be a great hub for such things, and thus save us from the clutches of those corporations circling around the IoT landscape,
I wonder what Serial UART ( & SPI) speeds this new Core can support/sustain ?
May prove a good way to test P2 Serial above 12MBd, on something other than another P2 ?
I did find this re SPI, ( UART was limited to 4MBd by OS, unclear if that is still true ? )
http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/699/what-spi-frequencies-does-raspberry-pi-support
The Raspberry Pi SPI runs at APB clock speed, which is equivalent to core clock speed, 250 MHz. This can be divided by any even number from 2 to 65536 for the desired speed. The datasheet specifies that the divisor must be a power of two, but this is incorrect. Odd numbers are rounded down, and 0 (or 1) is equivalent to 65536. A divisor smaller than 2 is therefore impossible.
This makes the frequency range be from 3.814 kHz to 125 MHz, with 32768 steps in between.
(There has been a lot of misinformation on this matter, but these results have been verified by experimentation. Please spread the word.)
Can't find if the APB Bus has changed in Pi 3, some clocks moved 250MHz -> 400MHz
I did not find anyone claiming 125MHz tests, but I did see this
Hmm, those given numbers, suggest the odd-round-down, is incorrect too.
Looks to be 250MHz/N (N>=2) granular on SPI CLK
and this thread
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=130326
suggest the Linux/Pi is rather stuck in the Dark Ages around Baud support.
Code that was working, stops with revisions (Feb 12, 2016) , and those providing the Kernel want to dictate what bauds you can use.
With the industry trend to finer Baud control, (now 48M/(N+f/8) is common on USB-UART devices, they really should sort this,
most likely quad for improved bandwidth.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=72
re:Only 3374 left in stock at RS!
Looks like they did better planning that the Raspberry Pi Zero for stock. I can even get the Pi 3 locally
I hope your recovery from your accident is going well!