Hi there everyone!

gis667en11

I'm just finishing my degree in Electrical Engineering and now only need to finish my thesis to complete my undergrad requirements. I chose to do an entrepreneurial thesis, because I have an idea for an invention that I've been sitting on for awhile, which means I need to complete a functioning hardware prototype of my device to finally earn my degree. Initially, I thought I could get away with an Arduino based solution, but upon analyzing the requirements of my project, and discovering the Propeller's capabilities, I discovered that Arduino cannot work for what I have planned and Propeller probably can. So, I wanted to introduce myself because I'll likely be here a lot. I'm reading through Programming the Propeller with Spin: A Beginner's Guide, because I've decided Spin and PASM are the best choice for my project, as it involves quite a lot of data being parsed and sent out over several different protocols and rates. I'm starting to get a grip on how the structure works, and I just received my first oscilloscope in the mail today. So I suppose I'm just taking my first steps in what will be a long journey of learning and challenges. I'll be seeing you around.

gis667en11

P.S. Anyone who can guess what my username means gets bonus points.

Publison

Welcome aboard. A friendly and knowledgeable bunch here.

Be happy to answer your questions.

LoopyByteloose

I think you are making a wise move. The Propeller is not only a good alternative to the Arduino in many situations, you are likely to get a lot of technical help here and know-how that will advance your professional development more than what Arduino has to offer.

The only Arduino advantage is in projects which really require more RAM than the Propeller has to offer. Eventually the Propeller 2 with fill that gap. But if you need such space, a Propeller P1V on FPGA can currently provide greater memory resources.

The only question would be whether your degree program would accept an FPGA solution as appropriate for you degree.

gis667en11

Thanks Loopy, I've been blown away by the power of the Propeller so far. And don't worry- my university will accept anything I give them. As an entrepreneurial thesis, it's more about the process of going from idea to prototype to (at the very least) a plan for starting a small business. The exact means by which the device or system works is pretty much up to me. I've never heard of the P1V on FPGA. I've seen "FPGA" thrown around here and there, but actually don't know what it means. I'll read up on all that, thanks. In terms of RAM requirements, I don't think it will be an issue. My system will need to interface with an SD device to read static data and parse it into packets to be sent over different protocols. It's basically going to be an LED sequencer, so I don't predict having a need for many on-the-fly calculations or locally stored data.

DavidZemon

gis667en11 wrote: »

Thanks Loopy, I've been blown away by the power of the Propeller so far. And don't worry- my university will accept anything I give them. As an entrepreneurial thesis, it's more about the process of going from idea to prototype to (at the very least) a plan for starting a small business. The exact means by which the device or system works is pretty much up to me. I've never heard of the P1V on FPGA. I've seen "FPGA" thrown around here and there, but actually don't know what it means. I'll read up on all that, thanks. In terms of RAM requirements, I don't think it will be an issue. My system will need to interface with an SD device to read static data and parse it into packets to be sent over different protocols. It's basically going to be an LED sequencer, so I don't predict having a need for many on-the-fly calculations or locally stored data.

Sounds very cool

Since the Propeller only has 32kB for both program and data memory, things can get tight. The routines to communicate with an SD card are reasonably large. Hopefully you'll be fine though - Spin is a pretty compact language

gis667en11

Thanks David. I'm hoping that I'll be able to standardize the file format/ data format enough that I can compile and refine the data sending cog programs to PASM. It's all one way communication, so the pattern should be simple enough. Grab data from main RAM, line it up, send with the right start/stop bits at the right frequency, repeat. Though I have no clue if it will work the way I see it in my head, I've only just begun learning to program the thing. :P

DavidZemon

Because of the nature of the Propeller (lacking hardware peripherals) there is a plethora of software peripherals out there. I don't think anyone has even tried to count the number of different serial comm drivers that have been written for the Prop. And in all different languages too - Basic, Spin, raw PASM, C, C++, Forth.... maybe others I'm forgetting about? Anyway, point is, if you have specific requirements, I'd recommend listing them here and you'll get recommendations for a few specifics that would fit well into your program. The Full Duplex Serial object that you might have found in the library folder is great and works really well, but I don't want you to think that your only options are that or rolling your own.

gis667en11

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blittled

Doesn't sound overambitious. There have been many "impossible" tasks that have been accomplish in this forum. In fact if you do use the word impossible you'll find the it'll attract people here like bees to honey

FYI: FPGA - Field Programmable Gate Arrays. These devices permit you to "program" hardware on a chip. By using a FPGA as a Propeller, many here have added I/O and other functions creating a customized Propeller.

gis667en11

Ooohhh that's what it means when I read that the FPGA was used as an "emulated" Propeller. It's not that the FPGA was just similar enough in the silicone layout that it was used to prototype the Propeller... it's a device that actually lets you program its hardware functionality??

blittled

Yes, that is the general idea. I have one but I went a different direction than most here. I used mine to run a Z80 based computer from 1981, the ZX81. Runs just like the original except the logic levels are 3.3V not 5V. I do have a Propeller hooked up to it acting as a sound card add on they had for it.

gis667en11

Wwwwwwwhy would you want a computer from 1981. I mean, for the challenge of building one, sure, but.... I mean just... why? XD

Regardless, that's super cool. I had no idea what an FPGA was, and now I feel like getting one and learning to use it is yet another life goal.

Oh, and finally, to address your suggestion of using an FPGA to overcome design challenges, I don't think that will be a path I take. As an entrepreneurial thesis, I do have an intention to develop a marketable product, whether I end up trying to do that or not. FPGA's sound like they aren't suited for use in mass produced consumer devices.

blittled

I'm into retro computing but I may delve into making my own cpu with it to learn more. I wasn't implying the use of an FPGA for your project. I agree that it isn't a good fit for your project since it adds layers of complexity and as you said it is for developing not production. But if you want a challange and broaden your knowledge FPGAs are worth looking into.

DavidZemon

gis667en11 wrote: »

Wwwwwwwhy would you want a computer from 1981. I mean, for the challenge of building one, sure, but.... I mean just... why? XD

Regardless, that's super cool. I had no idea what an FPGA was, and now I feel like getting one and learning to use it is yet another life goal.

Oh, and finally, to address your suggestion of using an FPGA to overcome design challenges, I don't think that will be a path I take. As an entrepreneurial thesis, I do have an intention to develop a marketable product, whether I end up trying to do that or not. FPGA's sound like they aren't suited for use in mass produced consumer devices.

FPGA's are really cool. I wish I had more reason to play with them.
They can be very marketable - however, you only want to use one if you absolutely have to because of the price. FPGA gives you incredible flexibility, but they cost significantly more (and are physically larger, if you care). But when you need one... there is no substitute.

gis667en11

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll be back soon with questions Have a great weekend.

mindrobots

gis667en11 wrote: »

Wwwwwwwhy would you want a computer from 1981. I mean, for the challenge of building one, sure, but.... I mean just... why? XD

I ask blittled that same question all the time!!

(Hi, Brian!!!)

Heater.

gis667en11

Wwwwwwwhy would you want a computer from 1981. I mean, for the challenge of building one, sure, but.... I mean just... why?

It may come as a surprise to you but old 8 bit technology is alive and well in billions of embedded systems around the world.

If an 8 bit machine, with it's minimal transistor count and hence power consumption is what you need then why not?

Don't forget that the world of Arduino is 8 bit. Not the Z80 of the 1970's but basically there for the same reasons.

It's not about being "old fashioned" or up with the latest 32/64 bit technology, it's about getting the job done as cheaply and efficiently as possible. Otherwise known as "Engineering". Which I understand is what you are studying.

By the way, welcome to the forum.

gis667en11

Can't argue with that! I hadn't considered that an 8 bit computer could be preferable; I suppose I don't think about power efficiency when I think about a computer. It sort of feels like I place microcontrollers and full fledged computers into the Commute-to-Work and Weekend-Cruising categories. In the latter, efficiency just isn't something I find myself concerned with. Nevertheless, emulating an 8 bit computer is still cool and interesting, regardless of its usefulness.

potatohead

2gis.com blackberry 10

Heater.

gis667en11

I suppose I don't think about power efficiency when I think about a computer.

Sure you do. Every time your mobile phone or tablet runs out of juice

People like Google and Amazon think about it a lot, providing power to their thousands of servers is a major expense.

As an soon to be EE graduate you should be thinking about it a lot.

It's not all about the cost of energy. Low power brings small size, long battery life, reliability etc.

idbruce

Welcome to the forum gis667en11

I chose to do an entrepreneurial thesis, because I have an idea for an invention that I've been sitting on for awhile, which means I need to complete a functioning hardware prototype of my device to finally earn my degree.

Sounds like an interesting challenge, however, depending on your future plans, you may want to be very careful, especially if you plan to follow through with your business plan, based on an invention.

There are many people here that disagree with the concept of patents and the protection of intellectual property rights, but for the sake of general information and possibly protecting you from some future grief, I will pass on an initial thought.

If you plan to file a future patent on your invention, you must be very careful not to disclose any information anywhere (including your thesis), that may be included in the claims of the patent application. The claims of a patent are the essence of an invention, for which a person seeks monopolistic protection.

Once again, welcome to the forum.

Bruce