Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Good PAL to NTSC converter? — Parallax Forums

Good PAL to NTSC converter?

cbmeekscbmeeks Posts: 634
in General Discussion
I know this probably isn't the best place to ask such a generic question. But, you kind folks here at the Parallax Forums have been the most helpful bunch of people I've talked to in a very long time. Even things not related to Propeller (i.e., Z80...)

I bought an el-cheapo PAL/NTSC converter off eBay and the thing doesn't work. Well, I only have two devices that output PAL (a ZX Spectrum and a German C64) so perhaps they don't put out a clean PAL signal. I would assume the C64 would, though.

I took it apart to see what was inside and there didn't appear to be much. Seems like there was a ADC and some type of video-on-a-chip. The entire thing couldn't have cost more than $4 to make in some Chinese sweatshop.

Anyway, do any of you have a recommendation on how to get my PAL systems to work on my NTSC TV's?

I've read that most modern TV's will sync both. Well, my two gaming TV's are both CRT's that are probably 15 years old (CRT is better for gaming!).

My 8 year old, 42" plasma couldn't handle it at all.

The only TV I have that sorta handled it was some cheap Sansui LCD. But it looks awful. The bottom row is partially cut off (no bottom border), the colors are blurry and everything is really fuzzy.

Thanks!

Comments

  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    Due to the different line and frame rates between PAL and NTSC, I doubt that you're going to find much as far as a converter goes. PAL is 50 fields per second; NTSC, 60. So it's not possible to sync the two without buffering entire frames for retransmission at the other standard. Even then, a PAL-to-NTSC converter would have to duplicate every fifth frame to "keep up" with NTSC's faster rate. The result would not be pleasant to watch.

    -Phil
  • cbmeekscbmeeks Posts: 634
    Hmm. Sounds like it might be better to get a TV that can properly sync PAL and NTSC.

  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    A whole lot of TVs will do NTSC 50hz, but I've never seen a converter to take advantage of it.

    Those USB capture devices will do PAL pretty well. That is what I use a lot of the time. That gets you a reasonable display on a computer screen. Latency on those can be high.

    Honestly, I would get a CRT that does PAL.

    For color checks, I use a capture card. For most every other use, I use one of those old monochrome composite displays. Over time, I've been able to feed PAL composite into a few of them, and they were fine.



  • cbmeekscbmeeks Posts: 634
    That's what I'd like to do...get a CRT that does PAL. But I'd have to ship one from Europe. :-)

    The only CRT's around where I live are the really old ones in thrift stores. And those are getting harder to find.

    One time, about 5 years ago, I tried to GIVE a pawn shop a 32" CRT and they wouldn't take it. Wound up giving it to a women in the parking lot. LOL

  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    Try these:


    -Phil
  • cbmeekscbmeeks Posts: 634
    Ah. Thanks.

    That small TV seems to be a good option. However, might be a little difficult for me to use (old, eyes failing...lol).

    I wonder if the Best Buy people would be mad if I walked in with a ZX Spectrum and started testing on their TV's? LOL

    Thanks!

  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    cbmeeks wrote: »
    I wonder if the Best Buy people would be mad if I walked in with a ZX Spectrum and started testing on their TV's? LOL

    That's not so silly - just choose a quiet time.

    Most modern TV chipsets should simply do both.
    I thought you were after the CRT in the most literal sense of wanting a Cathode Ray Tube TV for historic/collector reasons.

  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    I did that on my last plasma TV. Hauled a couple of things in there. I was at Video Only and they gerked out on the tests. We had a good time. Recommended.

    Learned a lot too.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    I did once see a BBC engineer showing off an NTSC to PAL converter. It was a 6ft tall 19 inch wide rack of electronics. That is what the Beeb was using to play Yankee TV shows in the UK.

    Mind you, that was some decades ago...:)

  • cbmeekscbmeeks Posts: 634
    Ha. I might actually do that after the holidays. One good thing about the Speccy is that it's pretty easy to carry around. Heck, it's almost like a large game controller with just two wires. hehehe

  • Brian FairchildBrian Fairchild Posts: 549
    Depending how much you want to spend you might pick up a secondhand broadcast quality standards converter on eBay for not much money.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Datavideo-PAL-NTSC-Standards-Converter-STC-100-/281849563832?hash=item419f8b0ab8:g:E5EAAOSwwbdWPKTV
  • jac_goudsmitjac_goudsmit Posts: 418
    edited 2015-11-17 08:50
    I come from Europe but live in the US so I've had to deal with this problem too. The easiest way for me was to use a video grabber in my PC that could do PAL as well as NTSC. Most video grabbers can (could?) do this.

    A while ago I ran into an Aiwa MX100 at the local Goodwill store, this is a VCR that can be used to convert several formats back and forth, however the one I have, doesn't work so that's a Shelved Project for me, but maybe you can find one on eBay or something.

    I also recently found a Sony PVM 14L1 monitor which is a professional monitor that was mostly used in TV studios in the standard-definition days. It has one of those heavy Trinitron CRT's of course but the resolution is much higher than regular TV's (the picture looks really stunningly good!), and it works with PAL as well as NTSC. These are easy to get on eBay, but a quick glance shows that they apparently are a collectors' item: I'm seeing prices around $150, I got mine from a friend for a less than a dollar, he got it from a university auction site in Phoenix last year, they were desperately trying to get rid of them.

    Most people think I'm an idiot for keeping CRT monitors around, but I still have a 17" super VGA (1280x1024) and that Sony CRT monitor, and a small black-and-white TV with a video input that you'll have to pry out of my cold dead hands. Especially when you're dealing with signals that are even slightly non-standard like non-interlaced output from old computers, or Propeller-generated video (especially if you use the 1-pin driver), CRTs will keep rocking for many years to come whereas LCD's will simply throw their hands up in the air going "No signal".

    Hope this helps!

    ===Jac

    PS Standard American CRT TV's will probably NOT show a PAL picture correctly. PAL is sort of a "2.0" version of NTSC that gives a better quality picture at a slightly higher resolution but a lower refresh rate. This takes a lot of extra electronics which makes PAL TV's much more complicated. Many (not all!) European TV's from the last 20 years or so are compatible with NTSC, because all they need to do is run the vertical a little faster and the horizontal a little slower and not alternate the color phase and use a slightly different frequency for the color decoding. Big manufacturers like Philips made chip sets for TV's compatible with PAL, SECAM and NTSC so they could use the same chip in all TV's and just leave some of the electronics out of American TV's (that explains why my first American TV was about 1/3 of the price of my last European TV when I emigrated). But the compatibility only goes one way: European TV's may do NTSC but American TV's don't do PAL except for TV's that are specifically multi-standard.
  • cbmeekscbmeeks Posts: 634
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I've read that capture cards are a good way but I'd rather not have to boot up my computer in order to play another computer. :-)

    I will keep searching around and see if I can find a better multi-standard TV.

Sign In or Register to comment.