Loopy I just LOVE the way you explain things, and yes I was aware that there are many computer systems within a car but I was under the wrong interpretation that the canbus was the combination of all the computers.
and yes that terminal strip you pointed out exactly what I bought for using this project however yesterday I opt out with those and decided to go with waterproof quick connectors, the change was prompted by the very small possibility that something could short circuit inside the box because terminals were exposed, and I did not want to put silicone over the terminals however they will be nothing inside to move for it to short circuit in the first place even with that being the case I still want no exposed copper
in the event that a relay got stuck in the on position which is very very very unlikely because of the precautions I have taken, there is a kill switch for all power to my circuit, that way Im not stuck with my horn blowing or my lights on or something else while I am trying to operate my vehicle.
I wanted connectors on the outside of the box thay way I can quickly disconnect all my cables if needed to take the box out for service however I could not find waterproof connectors that was affordable enough and I felt safe enough for this application
the wires from the vehicle will feed into waterproof tubing which would be completely filled with silicone and then be affixed to the marine box and also silicone around that and then inside the box is where the waterproof connectors come into play, I keep saying waterproof but they are not waterproof they are weatherproof fully insulated. Zip ties heat shrink and electrical tape help keep the beast in line.
I also use screw mounting terminals
and although I hate wire breaks, where it was needed I reduced the size of the wire.
I would love to interface directly with the CANbus however this car will not be the ideal experimental subject for that, but you definitely have a pragmatic way of problem solving that I am fond of, and although it may seem that I am NOT receptive to your solutions I take them and apply them in my own way I am very much and "information whore" and all of the knowledge that is shared is appreciated.
Forgot
all of all the basic stamps will be inside of the box together so they will be ok as far as voltage drops and everything else the relays and everything else is also house inside the box all the wires from the vehicle go to the box
the box is 6 by 6 by 4 but it does conveniently fit under my seat I have tested the wires and everything is good with the length that I have that's why I ended up going under the seat instead of in the trunk because of the long runs I have tested the wires and everything is good with the length that I have chosen
as far as relays go I have 2 seed studio relatio shields that I have been using and they can handle the ratings of the low voltage they're powered by 5 volts and won't be that fussy as far as transient noise I do not think, I did read a lot of that article that you linked me to, what I have learned so far is that most vehicles have multiple transient suppression circuits each vehicle has a main one for the alternator or whatever thing it is that creates or the charge battery. I think I may be somewhat good on that end, not to mention I have hooked this system partially and rode around with my computer controlling it, but a day or two worth of testing will not give you sufficient evidence for repeated long term use. I will do more homework in figure out whats the best way to go about constructing a circuit that can handle this noise to prevent damage to my system.
I wish I had seen that relay before I used all the ones I use
Just be aware that the reason for using terminal strips is that 98% of your wiriing failures are likely to occur at the ends of the wire. In general, if the insulation stands up, the middle of the wire never wears out. But the ends get flexed, have corrosion and moisture.
Terminal blocks make it easier to observe and manage the problems with poor connections. They also allow one to make a quick fix by by-passing in emergencies.
Understood but these ends won't move at all (up to 4 inches away from the connect inside the box) insde the box even if the box is moved, because the connections are inside the box, they are weatherproof seals so this reduces the chance for the accumulation of excessive moisture buildup that cause corrosion, the silicone I am using is also water resistant mold resistant and have some other features, each wire at each connection will have a small coating that surrounds the connection, on top of the heat sink, tape and zip ties of course, also the marine box I use is moisture and airtight/ until I cut into it, at which point in counting on the silicon and airtight connections. It should keep moisture out, but again I do not plan on opening the box unless there is a significant rash of problems or to upgrade the system. I will eventually come up with a maintenance schedule based on the parts that I used.
during an emergency my system completely releases all resources, @ the flip of a toggle switch.
but hopefully my system is there to assist during an emergency not shut down.
if you're referring to my system when you speak of emergencies well there's not much that can go wrong with my system, if something being stuck on like head lights, horn, wind shield wipers excetera, well that's not an emergency and there's precautions for that, temporarily shut down the system for those type issues, the same shutdown is used during fire or short. Not to mention I have some devices in place that break contact @ xx temperature, another type breaks with fire. The point is I mentioned earlier that I do not want sacrificial parts however I was a bit misleading because I use several sacrificial parts but only in the sense that to sacrifice themselves in order to protect the system and the vehicle in the event of an emergency otherwise those parts are not required to be excessively used or at all by the system.
In regards to emergencies, I have been generalizing.
If you have home automation or desire to automate a sailboat or fishing vessel, you really have to have a good plan to override the system if some sort of disaster requires you to do so.
But the same goes for an automotive or aeronautical application. If there is a human on-board, it seems to me that having a manual over-ride is a basic requirement.
The last thing one wants is to be in the middle of a typhoon on a sailboat and be unable to deal with a failed relay on an auto-pilot.
I know it may sound silly but what about giving each 12 volt line its own 5 volt power regulator and simply sense the input that way? my concern with using relays and also power regulators is the power consumption of these devices, I'm not so sure the lines that output my 12v signals are meant to be used to power anything or if they are just meant to signal, maybe they can, as they accept voltage to power a relay that makes an action, but if so
The circuit I showed should have no problem sensing low or high, it simply protects the Stamp from seeing more than 5 volts on the pin. If you plan on inputting +12 into the circuit you may want to increase the limiter resistor a little and change the clamping diode to a Schottky such as 1N5819, which has a lower forward voltage drop.
I would suggest that you build a prototype circuit and try various values of resistors, applying the voltage that you expect the KIA will. This way you can measure the current draw and power used by each input circuit and verify signal reliability. Look to increasing the limiter resistor as high as possible and still provide a clean 0 Volt and 5 volt signal to the Stamp.
I would not use individual voltage regulators such as 7805, etc, since they are very inefficient and provide extra loading on the 12 Volt signal to give the 5 Volt output.
Comments
and yes that terminal strip you pointed out exactly what I bought for using this project however yesterday I opt out with those and decided to go with waterproof quick connectors, the change was prompted by the very small possibility that something could short circuit inside the box because terminals were exposed, and I did not want to put silicone over the terminals however they will be nothing inside to move for it to short circuit in the first place even with that being the case I still want no exposed copper
in the event that a relay got stuck in the on position which is very very very unlikely because of the precautions I have taken, there is a kill switch for all power to my circuit, that way Im not stuck with my horn blowing or my lights on or something else while I am trying to operate my vehicle.
I wanted connectors on the outside of the box thay way I can quickly disconnect all my cables if needed to take the box out for service however I could not find waterproof connectors that was affordable enough and I felt safe enough for this application
the wires from the vehicle will feed into waterproof tubing which would be completely filled with silicone and then be affixed to the marine box and also silicone around that and then inside the box is where the waterproof connectors come into play, I keep saying waterproof but they are not waterproof they are weatherproof fully insulated. Zip ties heat shrink and electrical tape help keep the beast in line.
I also use screw mounting terminals
and although I hate wire breaks, where it was needed I reduced the size of the wire.
I would love to interface directly with the CANbus however this car will not be the ideal experimental subject for that, but you definitely have a pragmatic way of problem solving that I am fond of, and although it may seem that I am NOT receptive to your solutions I take them and apply them in my own way I am very much and "information whore" and all of the knowledge that is shared is appreciated.
Forgot
all of all the basic stamps will be inside of the box together so they will be ok as far as voltage drops and everything else the relays and everything else is also house inside the box all the wires from the vehicle go to the box
the box is 6 by 6 by 4 but it does conveniently fit under my seat I have tested the wires and everything is good with the length that I have that's why I ended up going under the seat instead of in the trunk because of the long runs I have tested the wires and everything is good with the length that I have chosen
I wish I had seen that relay before I used all the ones I use
Terminal blocks make it easier to observe and manage the problems with poor connections. They also allow one to make a quick fix by by-passing in emergencies.
during an emergency my system completely releases all resources, @ the flip of a toggle switch.
but hopefully my system is there to assist during an emergency not shut down.
if you're referring to my system when you speak of emergencies well there's not much that can go wrong with my system, if something being stuck on like head lights, horn, wind shield wipers excetera, well that's not an emergency and there's precautions for that, temporarily shut down the system for those type issues, the same shutdown is used during fire or short. Not to mention I have some devices in place that break contact @ xx temperature, another type breaks with fire. The point is I mentioned earlier that I do not want sacrificial parts however I was a bit misleading because I use several sacrificial parts but only in the sense that to sacrifice themselves in order to protect the system and the vehicle in the event of an emergency otherwise those parts are not required to be excessively used or at all by the system.
If you have home automation or desire to automate a sailboat or fishing vessel, you really have to have a good plan to override the system if some sort of disaster requires you to do so.
But the same goes for an automotive or aeronautical application. If there is a human on-board, it seems to me that having a manual over-ride is a basic requirement.
The last thing one wants is to be in the middle of a typhoon on a sailboat and be unable to deal with a failed relay on an auto-pilot.
I would just like to confirm that the circuit in the bmp is for sensing low signals, and can you maybe show me the opposite (sensing high)
I would suggest that you build a prototype circuit and try various values of resistors, applying the voltage that you expect the KIA will. This way you can measure the current draw and power used by each input circuit and verify signal reliability. Look to increasing the limiter resistor as high as possible and still provide a clean 0 Volt and 5 volt signal to the Stamp.
I would not use individual voltage regulators such as 7805, etc, since they are very inefficient and provide extra loading on the 12 Volt signal to give the 5 Volt output.