Printed Propeller Manual?
rwgast_logicdesign
Posts: 1,464
in Propeller 1
So I am assuming Parallax stoped selling a printed version of the Prop manual? As I get more in to PASM I find I need to reference it a quite a bit and I dont like having only a PDF...
I see they have also taken down the Buy/Sell forum for some odd reason...
Is there a place to buy the manual still, ive looked around with no luck. Anyone got an extra copy laying around?
I see they have also taken down the Buy/Sell forum for some odd reason...
Is there a place to buy the manual still, ive looked around with no luck. Anyone got an extra copy laying around?
Comments
I will print it, if its my only choice but having an actual book would be nice
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1928982387/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
I uploaded the Prop Manual v 1.2 and selected the medium soft cover option (it appears to be in color as well). Quote was 30.31 USD.
(note: no affiliation. just one of the first hits when googling "print and bind pdf online".)
@Publison, thanks for that too, that is weird I searched amazon for propeller manual and didnt get any of those results... I sort of feel like an idiot now....
If you can get a laser printer with a good paper feed, it is likely to be a much more pleasant job. The real challenge is to get double-sided pages to come out right. The more paper jams you have, the more you end up wasting a lot in reruns.
If would be nice to have the Propeller Manual V1.20, but the whole process of printing one copy seems expensive. Once you have the one master copy, it is nothing to get a copier to generate 5 or 10 double sided copies.
So maybe, some collaboration is in order. I wish I had a local print service that just would print the whole PDF double-sided from a CD.
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=Propeller+Manual
Many printer drivers have the capability of printing at half-size or quarter-size nowadays. And of course many printers have duplexers nowadays that automatically print double-sided (I had to use FinePrint to print the front sides first, then the back sides, I think).
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Some printers will refuse to bind one book or just make you wait until they can include it in a larger book-binding run. Try to work with them and you will save money.
Copy cost here are $1-2NTD per letter-sized (actually A4) page per size -- that is about 2 1/2 to 5 cents USD and cheap enough to make getting several copies done. The big copier machines get their toner for a much lower price than our home laser printers.
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Many books in English that I purchase in Taiwan are double the retail US price due to shipping costs. Even if I buy from a local source on-line, it seems they mark up according to what ordering from abroad would be - so all imported books are a bit over-priced when compared to buying the same in the US.
We do have E-books that make the situation much better, but the Propeller Manual V1.2 (which has never been in print, only PDF) is one of those publications that I would like to have an actual text for reference. I guess I will have to just DIY a copy.
My main frustration here is that there are copiers that will print double-sided and from a computer file. So it seems that the only thing missing is the licensing and royalty payment for printing an E-book locally. It just seems like a good industry that is ignored --- local copy shops would benefit from more work, and the publisher and author from more sales.
In my own case, I found that the binding of the book is more an issue than the copying. The machine that binds the book uses a hot glue and many shops don't want to bother with turning it on for just one book. So if one does decide to print their own; you can either tell the shop to hold your book until they get a big job, or you might have them copy your master several times, bind all of them and share your expenses with other Propeller users near you. Maybe you can time printing with a coming local Propeller gathering.
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I still like printed texts for reference while working on a programming project. And I find that reading E-books is unpleasant on small screens, so I'd rather have an actual book when I am away from my desk. But notebook computer and Pad phone are great for a lot of things, but concentrated reading is not one of them.
So I printed these myself as 15 cents a page is alot of money, used Photoshop to make a cover, printed on card stock and then payed 4 dollars for the binding along with a translucent cover and black plastic backing.
Fifteen cents a copy seems high. I would be looking for a copy center that offers the lowest price possible. You might find a local university that has better prices as a student population supports a lot of copying... but are a very price sensitive population.
One can buy paper that is pre-punched for the plastic binding that you show in your attached photo. And many copy centers have the machine that will do the binding and let you do it if you buy the supplies there. Again, schools may have this device available for free. Still, I prefer the hot glue binding for a better, longer-lasting book.
You could get a copy for $12.50 USD each if you ordered 10 or more at one time.
http://www.bestvaluecopy.com offered such a quote on 10 books 400 pages shipped to San Francisco zip code, including shipping. If the order is larger (more than $125.00 USD), you get free shipping. If looks like 13 books would get you the free shipping and bring the price closer to $10.00 USD each.
That is quoted at a bit less than 2 cents per page for just the printing.. works out to about 2.5 cents per page including binding, shipping, and all for 13 or more books.
Okay, the actual Propeller Manual V1.2 is 399 pages, but double sided printing rounds up. And one might considering adding some back paged suppliments to the same binding of all the different PASM documents to have a really complete reference. It could creep up to 450 pages. I can think of three PASM documents that might be included. I will provide a list if others want to include these items.
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The main point is that people are going to have to do this cooperatively to get a low price. Nobody wants to print one copy and offer the best price..
If somebody wants to organize this, I would be interested in buying two copies and paying for shipping to Taiwan. I'd even be willing to pre-pay the two books plus shipping to get the ball rolling. That could be about $45.00USD. Let's just say $50USD in advance and you make change with delivery. I could even wait a month or two to get delivery.
If most kinkos or whatever do hot glue im willing to drive.. heck i may be willing to pick up the tools to do it, but i dont know much about the process.
I could also print books like the ones above for people if there was a group buy which was enough to cover a toner and the binding of each. They would be black and white but thats not a huge issue.
Second, I dislike the spiral bound book as the covers soon fall off. I really want the hot glue option -- not negotiable. I could do this all locally for less than the $50USD for two books, but I am willing to seed a good cause.
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So we really need a people that will commit to a dozen or so copies of the same thing. Different bindings and different options just drive us back into our own corners.
2.5 cents per page, bound plus shipping from somewhere in the U.S.A seems good enough. Does the Post Office still offer book rate inside the US? They destroyed it internationally.
People in other cities could ship together to one address to bring down costs.
Of course, one can go the 'Fed-Up' route if that is your cup of tea.
What is the difference between the proposed "custom" bound copies versus the original Parallax book, as shown both on Amazon and Abe already?
I think the so-called 'perfect binding' is the same method used in the Parallax Manual V1.10. I did not bother to get a quote for a colored cover, just B/W. Something will have to be worked up for the Cover and Spline. I just figured to cut and paste the Title Page included within.
The V1.20 pdf has 'pop-up'' "new" and "improved" tags indicating additional or changed commentary that will likely be hidden from view in the printed text. I am not sure how this will work out with actual printing. Someone needs to do a few test pages to satisfy themselves and all of us. The tags may be partially buried under the binding of the left margin. The color will change to just B/W.
So...Nope - not discussing V1.01 nor V1.10, we are considering Propeller Manual V1.20, which Parallax has never published by Parallax in a physical text. V1.20 is not available is many of the foreign language versions, may only be in English.
Version 1.01 does have the Chapter 2 3 tutorial that was later removed, and the missing pages seemed to have been taken up with a great deal of correction and clairification.
As near as I can figure, a printed version at 400 pages will weigh about 2 pounds. Since everything is shipped in a box these days, I guess the shipping costs would be based on 3 pounds.
My printed and bound copy of the Propeller Manual V1.01 weights about 2 pounds and is 433 or so pages. The size is 6" x 8 1/4", not sure what the printer trimmed off before binding but I think I used B4 sized paper. This is a good size. 8 1/2" x 11" or A4 would be a bit too big.
Perhaps you pay more, get less.
It seems that just the 399 pages with no fancy additions is what we are looking at. Figure shipping to be about 2 1/2 pounds per book. Total cost including shipping and printing are looking to be about $17.50USD for Media Rate USPS delivery.... more if something else is specified.
And of course, the person who takes the whole order, handles the funds, and forwards to others gets his books without the shipping cost as a Thank You.
2 books => Loopy
1 book => Swim Dude
3 books => RWGast
Terms - Pre-payment prior to order the print run. :-D
Anyways the point is if you guys want to do this and want me to take care of doing the work shoot me an e-mail as soon as we get to the number we need as I might not see it in the thread immediately.
I prefer spiral bound on manuals, since they take up less space when you fold them over. Since this is not an option on this order, I will opt out.
Thanks for offering though.
I really didn't think that binding choices would be so decisive.
Also, I have no idea WHERE in the USA the printing house is. I just used a San Francisco Zip Code to get a quote as a starting point. That order was for 10 books. But by ordering 13, you get the FREE shipping regardless of where.
Paypal is likely to the be easiest means of payment. I could issue a check on a US bank as a second alternative. BUT it does seem we should get a full 13 pledged books, before collecting money.
3-Ring binders, wire bound, or others simply require pre-punched paper, and the related stuff. I see that Fed Ex/Kinkos and other big names only provide these options as they don't want to train staff or buy the additional equipment.
The 'perfect binding' usually means the whole text is trimmed to nice clean edges, and then glued with cover in place -- it takes really print shop equipment... safety issues and electrical service.
I do understand that some like that the books lie flat when open. My situation is that I tend to carry books with me than the other bindings tend to have the covers pull off if books are carried in a back-pack or bag.
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So, let's see if we can get to that magic 13 books pledged before Thanksgiving. Okay.
So far -- only 5.