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Last Thing a Crashing Drone Sees: Itself — Parallax Forums

Last Thing a Crashing Drone Sees: Itself

ercoerco Posts: 20,255
edited 2015-09-21 14:42 in Robotics
Gotta love the irony. Drone camera breaks off in treetop crash, captures video of now-detached drone breaking apart at 9:54. Dude gets what he deserves for being a high altitude (above clouds) hazard to aircraft. Stefan's not in the US, probably Evropa.

Comments

  • IHMO. illegal flight. WAY too high, (aircraft altitude), and loss of visual contact.

    Multicopters are getting bad names with bad operators.

    (I didn't say drones) :)
  • "...really nothing to worry about..."

    Except being several hundred meters up with no power and no control. I read the description and he does (now) understand the issues and states them pretty clearly. A cheap lesson that could've been far more expensive. Incidentally, here's the link if you want to read the description https://youtu.be/GfxdeRx2fLA
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-23 05:53
    Publison wrote: »
    IHMO. illegal flight. WAY too high, (aircraft altitude), and loss of visual contact.

    Multicopters are getting bad names with bad operators.

    (I didn't say drones) :)

    Ditto that...... it is a classic illegal flight. I have a difficult time believing that crashing in a park was anything other than dumb luck. Winds at different levels could have suddenly blown him elsewhere. May have had r/c control failure due to being on the other side of the clouds
  • I went to the video on YouTube to read his description. He basically does a mea culpa and says don't do what I did in the video, and I don't anymore. So it looks like he learned his lesson.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-23 16:25
    The whole video left me wondering if the jet engine industry is doing tests of multicopter strikes, similar to bird strikes.

    What happens when on of these is sucked into a jet engine?

    One might think that they would see the jet coming. But at 550MPH cruising speed, I have my doubts about the ability to negotiate avoiding a collision.

    Fortunately, these don't fly in flocks.
  • Jet engine manufacturers have tested how their engines respond to lots of junk besides birds. The military in particular has had endless problems with what they call FOD - foreign object damage. I don't know if they've included multicopters or not, but I know they've done bolts, tools, and other hard objects. I don't think the engines do well after ingesting something hard.
  • Sorry to disagree but I'm fascinated by an rc craft that can fly above the clouds. I was fascinated by the group that flew a dvr to the edge of the atmosphere with a balloon. and I'm sure Elon Musk has fans here.
    We were all excited when Curiosity made a successful landing.
    I was surprised to find that Edison had designed batteries. It was thought that they were a better solution to power automobiles. Regarding gasoline, some people asked how you would ever get people "to sit over an explosion".
    I own five quadcopters and I fly them all safely.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    Interesting point about high altitude balloon/parachute cams. Those are totally uncontrolled going up and down, a potential risk to passenger jets at 30K feet too. How many laws do those violate?
  • erco wrote: »
    Interesting point about high altitude balloon/parachute cams. Those are totally uncontrolled going up and down, a potential risk to passenger jets at 30K feet too. How many laws do those violate?
    What I wrote didn't make sense.
    Satellites occasionally fall out of orbit and the speed of cars caused fear in people who were accustomed to horses
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2015-09-25 03:06
    Satellites don't exactly fall out of orbit.. in orbit they're at rest, they're already falling. So to get out of orbit needs a force. Could be atmospheric drag if its orbit is a bit too low to start with so that it needs the occasional thruster firing to keep its orbital speed, e.g. like the low-flying ISS. Go a bit higher, e.g. to 800km and your satellite will just keep orbiting. But after some (well, many) years the drag will make even those come down eventually, so these days the last remains of the fuel is used to slow them down to take them down in a semi-controlled manner (as in having at least an idea of where it comes down), instead of waiting a couple of decades or five and then it comes down.

    A launch can go wrong though and the launcher and its payload will fall down somewhere. That's planned for in the choice of launcher location so at least for those cases where its fails just after launch the area ahead is generally clear (e.g. open water, or a non-inhabited region).

    As for the balloons, I thought they required advance permit from the nearest airport and/or an airspace authority. At least that's my impression.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-25 03:44
    lardom wrote: »
    Sorry to disagree but I'm fascinated by an rc craft that can fly above the clouds. I was fascinated by the group that flew a dvr to the edge of the atmosphere with a balloon. and I'm sure Elon Musk has fans here.
    We were all excited when Curiosity made a successful landing.
    I was surprised to find that Edison had designed batteries. It was thought that they were a better solution to power automobiles. Regarding gasoline, some people asked how you would ever get people "to sit over an explosion".
    I own five quadcopters and I fly them all safely.

    Well, if you are fascinated with these things -- file a flight plan, include navigation lights, and a radio beacon so that you can avoid being sucked into a passenger jet's engine. AND make sure your RC is capable of the distances involved. Also have your multicopter include a parachute deployment in case of power failure... these things shouldn't just be allowed to fall out of the sky at terminal velocity.

    Even a large kite that flies high enough on a string is required to file a flight plan so that air traffic can avoid the hazard BY being aware of it. The same for balloons and rockets.

    Yes, the photos are great, the audio is great -- but the airspace is shared.

    Would you take a rowboat into a busy harbor and expect all the cargo traffic to just give you the right of way and make sure you are safe? While that may be the "Law of the Sea", it is not feasible. Taking a RC controlled rowboat into a busy harbor is even more absurd.

    We all have to work to share the airspace and provide for the safety of people that are flying. These small multi-copters have NO rights to endanger pilots and passengers.

  • Hi Loopy. I absolutely agree we must practice safety. I fly my multirotors only in parks away from people and property. I have never flown along airline routes.
    A parachute as part of a 'failsafe' procedure is a great idea. I've seen a video of an rc glider catching thermals. An rc craft gliding back on a parafoil could actually catch on!
    I am admittedly weird. I wished I could fly like Superman as a kid. I dreamed about it.
    In the late 80's I made plans to build a hang glider in my basement. My wife said "NO!". I had to settle for parafoil kites.
    The rowboat in a harbor is not too far from something I actually did. In the early 90's I rowed a small inflatable boat across the Hudson river in upstate NY. My arms ached when I reached the other side and I had to go back. On my return trip there was a huge barge bearing down on me and the river was pulling me downstream. I think that was the dumbest thing I've ever done.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    lardom wrote: »
    I think that was the dumbest thing I've ever done.

    That would be a separate and very interesting thread we could all contribute to.
  • erco wrote: »
    That would be a separate and very interesting thread we could all contribute to.
    Please start a new thread. I might actually be able to rank pretty high.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-26 17:41
    The dumbest thing I ever did was to take a bicycle off a steep ram about 30" high. The idea here at Parallax is to inspire saftey, not inspire causalties.

    Rather than a straight jump, I did a one and a half somersault still seated on the bike to the awe and amazement of all my neighborhood pals.

    A one or two would have been okay, but a one and a half landed me on my head. Luckily, I didn't break anything... didn't even tell my parents what happened.

    But to this day, if I get together with those kids -- they start laughing about it... more than 50 years later.

    Invention may be 1% inspiration and 99% effort, but disaster can be 99% inspiration and 1% action.
  • @lardom What part of upstate NY? I used to cross the Hudson River in ways I ended up regretting haha. Usually launched from the Red Hook/Rhinebeck area in Dutchess county. Last summer I did the walkway so much easier!

  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-26 20:41
    Low altitude parachutes may require ballistic deployment to get open quickly enough to do any good. It is not that hard to DIY, but it does require some blank rounds of ammunition.

    Much would depend on the size of the parachute... maybe even a blank .22 catridge would work in some tiny parachutes. There is blank ammunition used to shoot fasteners into concrete. Hilti has a gun and a range of ammunition strengths that are well calibrated. And then, blank shot gun shells come is a range of gauges - the smallest is .410, then 28 gauge and on up. These can be easily custom packed to suit your particular set up.

    Try not to blow yourself up while developing a ballistic parachute to save your multicopter. There is a real need for this as a real product... worth developing.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    One might think that they would see the jet coming. But at 550MPH cruising speed, I have my doubts about the ability to negotiate avoiding a collision.

    You're not going to find passenger jets cruising anywhere near that speed at low altitudes.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    erco wrote: »
    Interesting point about high altitude balloon/parachute cams. Those are totally uncontrolled going up and down, a potential risk to passenger jets at 30K feet too. How many laws do those violate?

    None, providing they follow FAR part 101.

  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    Would you take a rowboat into a busy harbor and expect all the cargo traffic to just give you the right of way and make sure you are safe? While that may be the "Law of the Sea", it is not feasible.

    That most certainly is not the "Law of the Sea". Cargo traffic is not required, nor expected to give a row boat, or any small craft, the right of way.
  • W9GFO wrote: »
    erco wrote: »
    Interesting point about high altitude balloon/parachute cams. Those are totally uncontrolled going up and down, a potential risk to passenger jets at 30K feet too. How many laws do those violate?

    None, providing they follow FAR part 101.

    The thing here is that 'the public' thinks that the FAA doesn't have a grip on what is happening in the air space. That is just not true. But there are people that choose not to investigate and learn how to comply.

    http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div5&node=14:2.0.1.3.15

    When I was about 10 years old, I was very interested in building kites and wanted to build big ones -- like 10 feet tall, and fly them high. But it was pointed out to me that do so responsibly, I had to comply with FAA regualtions... that was back in the late 1950s.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2015-09-26 21:20
    The thing here is that 'the public' thinks that the FAA doesn't have a grip on what is happening in the air space. That is just not true. But there are people that choose not to investigate and learn how to comply.

    Not sure I get your point. According to FAR 101 you could have a balloon with a payload up to six pounds and not fall under their jurisdiction - except for 101.7 which is a catch-all that says you cannot create a hazard to persons or property.

    That means I could launch a 5lb balloon without notifying anyone.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2015-09-27 02:58
    xanadu wrote: »
    @lardom What part of upstate NY? I used to cross the Hudson River in ways I ended up regretting haha. Usually launched from the Red Hook/Rhinebeck area in Dutchess county. Last summer I did the walkway so much easier!
    I rowed from the Newburgh boat ramp to Beacon Park and back.
    When my oldest daughter was little we'd bicycle across the Newburgh-Beacon bridge fairly often.
    I 'thought' rowing would not be that hard.
    BTW that 'walkway' is gorgeous.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2015-09-27 03:12
    The dumbest thing I ever did was to take a bicycle off a steep ram about 30" high.
    The closest I came to that was riding my bycycle down a steep grassy hill as a young teen. I hit a bump, became airborn and broke my thumb.

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