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Windows 10 for Parallax legacy Windows software -- yes or no — Parallax Forums

Windows 10 for Parallax legacy Windows software -- yes or no

LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
edited 2015-09-05 15:22 in General Discussion
I have been working with my Windows 7 Starter on an FPGA project and it is quite slow going. I am spending about 50% of my effort in running down demands for updates and maintenance from MS. And I am beginning to think that because I am using the Starter version, the matter will never improve. I have no idea what an up-graded Windows 7 does, but I'd rather try a Free upgrade to Windows 7 than purchase a Windows 7 licensed upgrade.

So I am wondering if Windows 10 will preserve my access to the software I have from Parallax and related vendors.

A. BasicStamp software
B. SX chip PASM software
C. Hydra software
D. Propeller related software

I am also curious what version of Windows 10 is provided in a Free upgrade. Is it a Starter version or is it presenting itself as being something more. I am beginning to think I may have nothing to loose with installing Windows 10 as Windows 7 in its current state is a huge waste of my time. About the only other alterative is to attempt a complete reinstall of the Windows 7 Starter.

Comments

  • Windows 7 Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium will all update to Windows 10 Home version.
    Windows 7 Professional and Ultimate will update to Windows 10 Professional.
  • Well that is attractive.
    But will I be able to use all my legacy XP items?

    The MS Update diagnostic claims that somehow my Windows 7 Starter registration is corruptted. I did register it, but being in Taiwan may have snagged somewhere in the MS infrastructure. So I am beginning to think it might be wise to move on.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-05 15:26
    Oh, no.................the Free upgrade will not allow a dual boot.

    For dual boot, the user MUST purchase Windows 10. So I guess I will pass.

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_install/free-upgrade-from-windows-7-to-windows-10-dual/29b232b2-ac67-45d6-be88-ac14b0c7bf8e

    And now I see the promotion says "Free Upgrade... for the first year."
    Be very carefull to read the fine print. I read that differently that what MS claims. Why say it at all? Advertizing impact maybe.
  • Yeah, the Win10 update "replaces" the Win7 license with its own, essentially invalidating the Win7 license. So you would need a separate license for Win10 in order to dual boot the two. Oddly, that's been the process Microsoft has implied since Windows' inception- updates supersede the previous version's license, and separate installations require separate licenses for each... with some exclusions for some server versions running virtualized.


    Regarding XP things, if they ran in 7, they should run in 10. For instance, I have an electronic keypad used to access cell sites and the software was designed for XP and hasn't been upgraded since, and also have diagnostic equipment whose software was written for XP; they both work fine in Win10 x64.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-05 15:42
    It is not Windows 7 that I desire to keep on dual boot, it is my Linux.

    This gets interesting... the language simple says "No Dual Boot". I am worried that Windows 10 security will reject operation if installed alongside Linux partitions.

    On the other hand....
    A refined search came up with this.
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/wiki/insider_wintp-insider_install/how-to-upgrade-a-dual-boot-installation-of-windows/d7ca80ce-96b0-4f0a-9a8e-4038ded592b2
  • Until recently you could download a genuine Windows 7 install iso and just run it in evaluation mode, but I think microsoft wants a valid CoA now. Maybe you could find a copy to borrow or get a PC repair shop to burn you a copy for a small fee.
  • I will have to dig around and see what I have. The sticker on the notebook wore off long ago.

    It seems it an XP app will run in Windows 7, it should run in Windows 10.

    I don't want to jump into this now as I am in the middle of an FPGA project on the Windows7. But it looks as though there would be no cost and something to gain.
    One thing is sure, I will have move around some partition space to make room for Windows 10.


    So there is going to be some downtime for the machine.
  • Well, if you can get hold of an actual Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate install disk, you could at least run a real OS. Windows 7 Starter was a bit of a joke. I doubt ms will let you download Windows 7 Pro or better with Starter CoA though, so you'd have to look elsewhere as I suggested. They've apparently tried to shutdown the "trial version" loophole since Windows 10 was released.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-05 17:56
    We will just have to see...
    My Windows7 Starter acquired a Windows 10 update button when I ran updates last week. Windows 10 Home would do fine.

    I was cheated so badly with XP and Vista, that I feel MS at least owes me this update at no cost.

    A. Windows XP Professional English and Office 2003 English imported to Tawian at premium prices and then MS would only provide support to me in Chinese. Never ran right due to MS and Apple fighting over Media Player and what Apple had, and the AV people (like Norton) were refusing to uninstall so that my System Mechanic could run right.

    B. Windows Vista for a Quad 64bit computer came in a 32bit version and no English language support.

    Until something really wonderful happens at MS, I am not going to spend another dime for MS products... customer service was duck and hide at a time when profit margins were running 30% of sales.

    Libre Office works as a complete replace for Windows Office, and it is Free.
  • I was suggesting that you try running Windows 7 Pro, not Windows 10. Why you would even consider using Windows 10? The cost is way too high and the only benefits are for microsoft.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2015-09-05 21:32
    I was cheated so badly with XP and Vista, that I feel MS at least owes me this update at no cost.

    Interesting take. Most people rather liked XP (and Win7 for that matter). Vista and Win8 were mostly hated. But Win7 Starter does have limitations, per http://www.zdnet.com/article/living-with-the-limits-of-windows-7-starter-edition/

  • XP was great, but once I got used to it, I liked 7 better. Windows is actually not that expensive. A Windows 7 OEM disk is $140, at 8-10 years per license, that's not too bad. I think it's worth it just to have a hassle-free, trouble-free OS. For stuff to run on Windows, I go elsewhere, no Microsoft applications for me.
  • koehlerkoehler Posts: 598
    edited 2015-09-06 02:18
    Oh, no.................the Free upgrade will not allow a dual boot.

    Uh, why not just have another HD/USB3 drive with its own OS installed.
    BIOS set to boot your daily, and F2/F8 to select the other drive to boot for dev?

    I was doing that with W7/Mint, and now W8/TinyCore/Suse.

    Unless your machine requires it, you can buy a genuine W7 Pro COA unusued online for $40-50, and run an OS that was not meant to be used by Joe Facebook/YouTube.
    You're in Taiwan for gods sake, not sub-saharan Africa :)

  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-06 05:33
    I guess my personal preferences have not been made clear.

    I will use Windows that comes with the purchase of a computer - as I cannot seem to buy one without it, but I am not willing to pay money for a copy of Windows in any form.


    Yes, I could buy something to fix my Windows 7 Starter, but have refused to provide any revenue to MS since they only provided me with technical support for XP Professional - English version in Chinese.

    So I am merely considering options that do not involve revenue to MS.

    You may consider this eccentric, but generally when I find I have wasted a lot of money on something with disappointing support from the maker, I move on... wholeheartedly.

    BTW - W7 Pro CoA for $40-50 is likely a North American license. It won't install in Taiwan. I might have to pay considerably more.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    So I am wondering if Windows 10 will preserve my access to the software I have from Parallax and related vendors.

    A. BasicStamp software
    B. SX chip PASM software
    C. Hydra software
    D. Propeller related software

    FWIR most issues will be around drivers, (rather than Win10 itself) & there are threads already about people testing & checking win10.

    Do any of the above require obscure or obsolete drivers ?

    For example I know SiLabs CP210x USB-Serial devices have a beta-Win10 driver, with some caveats out now

    http://community.silabs.com/t5/Interface/Is-or-will-Usb-to-Uart-CP210X-bridge-be-compatable-with-windows/m-p/146586#U146586

  • D. Propeller related software
    Propeller Tool works fine on Win10.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-06 09:53
    Well, I think I have reached endgame is exploring the Window 10 upgrade.

    I clicked on the Window 10 button and it claims my video display is NOT supported. I am running Windows 7 Starter on a Seashell series EEEpc.

    Parallax has always used the FTDI USB to serial devices and that seems to be the ONLY other driver I could imagine needing.

    +++++++++
    But obviously, an upgrade to an OS that won't support my video is absurd. Any dreams of bettering the situation will have to ponder paying money for a Windows 7 Pro. And I am still adamant in my boycott.

    And so....
    I turned off the automatic Updates in Windows 7 Starter and will just hope that it lives happily ever after. Bye-bye.
  • You don't want Windows 10 anyway. I still suggest you get a copy of the Win 7 Pro install disk and just run it in "Free Trial" mode. You won't have to give Microsoft anything.
  • Thanks, I will keep that in mind.
    But I have had enough of Windows for awhile as doing anything is eating up a lot of time in ways I don't usually run into in Linux.
    It appears that I have to entirely remove my Linux dual boot (about 190Gbytes in /, /home, and /swap partition)Tto enlarger the Windows partition (52.5Gbyte) for additional space due to the Linux being in the extended partition area.

    So hours and hours of backups, partitioning and reloads would be required have a new Windows 7 be adequate.

    It is far easier for me to remove all and everything of importance from the Windows 7 Starter side, and just continue to use Debian. I just retain the Windows 7 for legacy Parallax support. I may revive my old XP box and use that off the internet. I have licensed Windows XP Pro and Office 2003. It almost seems easier to do and maintain.


  • Loopy,

    Not sure if you ever mentioned it, however what kind of systems are we talking about?
    Are you dual-booting on the Eee PC 1005HA ?
    Like, the one's I see online with the old Intel Atoms selling for $80-100?

    If so, then as best I can tell, you've got something thats was rather barebones back in 2010, and even on MS forum's people in 2010 there said W7 Starter was crud:
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/windows-7-starter-what-are-the-limitations/422801d5-89de-494d-8cc1-6f4fc21c2ac0?auth=1

    I'm not into defending MS too much, however you bought a cheap eePC, with the cheapest W7 OS version ever made.
    It apparently doesn't even allow you to change the desktop image!
    And you are complaining about it not having more/better/advanced features?

    The hours you complain about losing and vitriol expended at MS, are because you've placed a value of almost $0 on your time vs getting a machine/OS that is more appropriate for what you want to do.

    Honestly, can you really not just buy someone's older Dell/HP laptop with W7 already installed, or build a $250 AMD quad-core/APU?

    I have to agree though, I wouldn't spend even $50 for a W7 Pro license on an eePC worth $100.
    Unless you just love the form factor.









  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-09-07 07:46
    koehler wrote: »

    MS forum's people in 2010 there said W7 Starter was crud:
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/windows-7-starter-what-are-the-limitations/422801d5-89de-494d-8cc1-6f4fc21c2ac0?auth=1

    And you are complaining about it not having more/better/advanced features?

    NO, no, no -- I am NOT complaining about getting more/better/advanced features. I am merely seeking a way to stabilize my Windows 7 Starter without buying anything from MS. I prefer not to throw good money away on this.

    I am just researching what I can do for no $$$ costs as MS brought up the upgrade possibility. And yes, I strongly desire NOT to buy MS products ever again.

    REVIEW the facts.

    A. I purchased the EEEpc fully intending to dual boot Linux and just have the W7 Starter for backup and Parallax legacy software - though I recently loaded Diamond IDE and intend to migrate that over to Linux.

    B. Yes, the W7 Starter is junk and has never stopped complaining. Even though I turn off automatic updates, it attempts to update. It seems as if MS wants it that way to push me into buying an upgrade.

    C. MS updates provided a W10 Update Icon on the device recently, so I merely was merely investigating the feasibility. Sadly the Video Drivers are not available. MS initially refused to support the Asus EEEpc series and they went with Linux on their first machine. After a huge push and shove, Asus EEEpc became only available with Windows - first XP then, the W7 Starter.

    D. Anybody that values their time would be better off in OSx or Linux.

    E. Asus made a wonderful machine in the EEEpc series that is both small and light.

    I have been carrying one around daily for many years now. Why should I spend more of a laptop that is twice as heavy to carry and that won't fit in my motor scooters under seat storage.

    Having a $300USD (original cost) notebook to carry around is sane. If stolen or damaged, I suffer much less of a lost that with a $1500USD laptop. I have long observed those carrying their laptops worrying about theft and damage, so cheap seemed wisest and I am happy with it.


    ++++++++++++
    My complaints with MS are based on simple fact. Whenever something is offered as an improvement it comes at a huge cost in up-grading hardware and wasting time to sort out what wasn't mentioned or considered.

    I happen to be retired and do have the time to research and re-evalute where MS is today. And frankly, I think their corporate culture hasn't improved over the years.

    Conclusion - Have a dedicated off-the-internet XP machine. This will work fine. The Propeller is supported on Linux.

    +++++++++++++++
    I was just looking at how I am going to continue with Linux and retain all my legacy Parallax applications.

    There seems to now be a good support community for unsupported XP, and I can revive my old XP machine (which is sitting on my desk loaded with Ubuntu) from licensed software... at no cost.

    As the Armenians say, "Spend money with a purpose." Why should I just throw money at problems and end up with more problems.

  • OK then, the eee PC was chosen primarily on cost and form factor.
    Thats fine.

    I do wonder though, have you tried the following, and if so, what happens?

    1. Do a complete restore to factory default on the W7 partition
    2. Update only the drivers you need updated, from ASUS
    3. Disable Windows Updates.

    I've read that W7 Starter automatically resets Updates on reboot.

    Have you tried using PowerShell via a batch file to disable updates on boot?
    This may be useful if you decide to do that.
    https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/sharepoint/en-US/abde2699-0d5a-49ad-bfda-e87d903dd865/disable-windows-update-via-powershell?forum=winserverpowershell

    Or, either find the windows update IP into the hosts files as 127.0.0.1, or if MS has it hardcoded like W10, then run a lightweight firewall to specifically block windows update from connecting?


  • koehler wrote: »
    OK then, the eee PC was chosen primarily on cost and form factor.
    Thats fine.

    I do wonder though, have you tried the following, and if so, what happens?

    1. Do a complete restore to factory default on the W7 partition
    2. Update only the drivers you need updated, from ASUS
    3. Disable Windows Updates.

    Becoming a huge waste of time. I don't go through all this difficulty with Linux. This is my 3rd EEEpc with Linux loaded as a dual boot and I am well satisfied with that configuration.

    At this juncture, I am back into Debian Linux and leaving the W7 Starter available but not to be seriously used. It's a waste of time. I'd be better off installing WINE inside Linux. I do have a spare computer to load XP Pro for legacy Parallax software.

    1. Since I repartitioned to Linux, I fear that a restore to factory default would dump the Linux partitions. And it just might fail as I was never provided with a Recovery Disk. I also might have damaged a partition required for Windows Recovery as it was never made clear what a rather wasteful hidden partition was.

    2. Not sure why I might need drivers from ASUS

    3. I tried to disable Windows Updates, but it runs anyway. I have also had to disable all the other automated scans as they make it awkward to even start W7 for a few minutes.

    You may love Windows and know all the dodges in and out of maintenance. I can't keep up with it in Taiwan.
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