Under cabinet lighting ideas
Roger Lee
Posts: 339
I have been assigned the task of installing new under cabinet lighting in our kitchen by the family CEO.
I happily accepted. Sounds like fun to me.
At this time the plan includes the adafruit product 306 . Link to product page --> https://adafruit.com/product/306
these have 32 LEDs per meter, I am thinking 2 meters ( 64 LEDs )
They can use about 2 amps per meter.
and of course it will be powered be the Propeller chip (proto-board?)
All of the lights and controller should ideally be powered from a single power supply plugged into 110 VAC.
This is one I have looked at ---> http://adafruit.com/products/658
I have already ruled out using cat 5 wire for the power based on some online searching. ( 24 gauge solid copper )
Thermostat wire may be good to use. ( 18 gauge solid copper )
I will run the cable in the walls, so all my options are open at this time. such as wire size, number and location of power feeds, etc.
There will be at least 3 separate power feeds.
also, for possible expandability, I want to build in the option of using a total of 4 LED strips if I decide later to add them.
Questions: 1) wire size ? am I thinking right about 24 gauge vs. 18 gauge?
2) Do I use a 5 VDC power and bypass the on board voltage regulator. ( standard proto board regulator will not run getting 5 VDC )
+) Sure to have more questions as time goes on.
Thank you,
Roger
I happily accepted. Sounds like fun to me.
At this time the plan includes the adafruit product 306 . Link to product page --> https://adafruit.com/product/306
these have 32 LEDs per meter, I am thinking 2 meters ( 64 LEDs )
They can use about 2 amps per meter.
and of course it will be powered be the Propeller chip (proto-board?)
All of the lights and controller should ideally be powered from a single power supply plugged into 110 VAC.
This is one I have looked at ---> http://adafruit.com/products/658
I have already ruled out using cat 5 wire for the power based on some online searching. ( 24 gauge solid copper )
Thermostat wire may be good to use. ( 18 gauge solid copper )
I will run the cable in the walls, so all my options are open at this time. such as wire size, number and location of power feeds, etc.
There will be at least 3 separate power feeds.
also, for possible expandability, I want to build in the option of using a total of 4 LED strips if I decide later to add them.
Questions: 1) wire size ? am I thinking right about 24 gauge vs. 18 gauge?
2) Do I use a 5 VDC power and bypass the on board voltage regulator. ( standard proto board regulator will not run getting 5 VDC )
+) Sure to have more questions as time goes on.
Thank you,
Roger
Comments
18g AWG max current is 2.3A
15g AWG max current is 4.7
For some reason this seems absurdly large wire size, however unless someone else chimes in, I'd rather be
safer than sorry.
2. Not sure about Proto board req.
3. I thought about doing this before, however not with a Prop.
Seems overkill, unless you are going to do something with the processing power.
LED's are already PWM'd themselves, so no need for the Prop to do that.
I would get some of the cheap PIR's from Goldmine Electric and slap them under the counter top with the LEDS.
Then either do away with a switch, or make that a back-up.
Depending on how you program it, you could have the lights fade "on" any time they sense
movement near the counter area, etc. Then fade "off" after x amount on non-activity.
Also, if you put a RTC on it, you could have it go into 'night time' mode, with barely on (1% PWM?) setting
to make those night kitchen raids less toe stubbing, or if you have another PIR covering kitchen area, maybe
fade in the under counter lights to med-high instead of having to turn on the uber-bright overeads?
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50192365/
Last year I replaced some hideous under cabinet fluorescent lights with 2 sets of the white Dioder quad 10" strip sets. These were rigid which made them ridiculously easy to mount under the cabinets which had a 1/4" overhang at the front. From a normal viewing position the strips could not be seen but the lighting effect was dramatic.
Each strip comes with a detachable, extremely long cable that easily dresses out of sight. All mounting hardware is included. These are also available in color and includes a control unit to change to a color of your choice. They are also available in flexible as well as rigid but I prefer the rigid ones for ease of mounting and concealment.
I believe you will need and MCU to get the strip started at the color and brightness you want. Then after that it's basically a set and forget it.
Of course she would need a MCU do this kind of activity, and the propeller would be a perfect chip for this activity.
If you want dim white light, you may want to add a strip of white LEDs too. It's hard to make dim white light with an RGB strip.
The trace on the strip is pretty small. I think a short run < 6" of 18ga power wire can handle a lot more current than the strip itself.
koehler: One pair of power wires will never feed more than one meter of LEDs. So from this I choose the 18 gauge wire size.
As far as the propeller being overkill, you are probably right. What was your point?
Propeller is my chip of choice so that is what I will go with.
I can put the prop in low power sleep mode until it is needed.
Probably will use your idea of fade in and out.
Hal Albach:
As a strange coincidence we have a trip to IKEA for Monday.
Neither of us have been to one before. I will look up your suggestion while there.
my biggest unknown (today) is how to best power the LED strips and the propeller board from a single power supply.
Suggestions and/or web links welcomed.
Roger.
The simplest would be to jumper out the 5V on board regulator. What board do you plan on using?
I was going to use a Propeller Proto board (#32212) or Proto board USB.
Was just looking at the information on the Propeller Project board - power requirements 5-16 VDC
Found a couple of those boards on the parts shelf. It is so nice when that happens.
That should be easier than messing with the 5 Volt regulator on the proto board.
This project is shaping up.
Can't find the link now...
I like the idea of using PIR sensors, for kitchen activity. Once a geek always a geek. It's a one-way-street thing.
Sure that you will need some manual switches to drive them to some state, but PIRs are cheap. Get a couple of them. Mount them under the counter also. The strip could light up the area where you are brighter as the rest, for example. Or in a different color?
Check if you can mount one PIR so that it covers the whole kitchen, maybe on the ceiling? To start a dim-on phase, or so.
I would take some PC/Tower Power adapter. Lots of amps on the 5 and 3.3 Volt lines available and easy available in any older PC on a flee market. Or even new from Ebay. Usually they provide quite regulated power. The bonus is you have also 12 volts.
So using a propeller, checking some pushbuttons for a menu, using some cheap car backup screen as TV out and running the light strips, you should be fine.
Maybe a light sensor to check if day/night?
I would advise you to put some cable channels into the wall, with a string inside so you can at any time access/replace/add to the wires later on. Just take PVC pipes and bury them in the wall or behind the Kitchen stuff. Plan some access/outlet places hidden from view.
Projects like that yell for modification. But then the Kitchen is already there and for that reason you should spend some money on PVC pipes or something alike.
And - well shameless plug for @idbruce here on this Parallax forum - http://www.novelsolutionsonline.com/ - he has some product very useful for a fishing line in cable channels. I have no connection (financial or other) to him, I just like his attitude and view of life.
As for the wire size, I am with @Koehler. You might add on stuff later. I would go for 14g or even 12g for power distribution for the 5 Volts. Like in Boats. You might need/want to add some stuff later, who knows? Wires getting hot between kitchen and wall are not a good idea.
Enjoy!
Mike
Got caught last night in postus-interruptus when Parallax went down.
Yes, I'm sure thats fine. In looking I was suprised at the variation on websites. From here it looks fine: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
though I like to always be well on the safe side.
Yes, one can never have too much power!
I'm just familiar with AVR and PIC, and it seemed like a job a $0.50 device could do.
Although I agree with the above poster that a 'white' led strip might be useful. Color is interesting as an ambiance type of thing, however for actual use I think a medium-K white would be more useful overall. Just saw a nice $10 4x 1W LED fixture at Goldmine-Electric I think.
Yes, good link. Will have to hit up the local IKEA as well.
I don't see a problem with using that 50W adapter to run everything.
Get one of these for $2.00 to power the Prop, and probably some big/little caps for spike/surges when switching the LEDs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM2577-Boost-Step-Up-Module-Voltage-Regulator-3-5-30V-To-4-30V-DC-DC-Converter-/191668333843?hash=item2ca052ad13
Not sure how you were going to switch the LED's. I was going to suggest a BJT/TIP120, however read a rant yesterday on /. complaining that people use those instead of simple FET’s.
And, I think Erco or someone had a link in the past week or two about $1-1.50 Ping senors which means I'd order 10 minimum.
I made heat sinks and shrouds for them out of deck mending plates and moulding for about two dollars each, and wired them all in series with a 15-amp bridge rectifier and fuse in a little box to feed the system. It lights up the room, should be dimmable (although did not work with the one very old dimmer I had on hand which might be bad), and cost about $75 total.
Someone could have told me, it is a kitchen after all, not a disco!!
We did go to IKEA on Monday.
I was not impressed with the RGB strip lighting they had. not suitable for under cabinets, in my opinion.
Several of the ones on display were not working right. 4 or 5 'pixels' in a row where red was the only color lighting up.
The color selector did not look like it would hold up long at all.
They did have another line of lighting in a small aluminum color case that looked good.
White only, preset brightness levels ( it said 3 levels, but 2 of them looked the same to me)
In other words, not a dimmer. ( and I really want multiple colors available )
Figured about $300 in the parts for my kitchen.
I am now looking at these analog strips from adafruit ---> adafruit.com/products/2440
These would give the propeller chip something to do, don't want it sleeping all the time.
4 mosfets can control 2 meters of these RGBW strips.
around $95.00 in parts.
Roger.
I've got a 5 meter strip of those, off of ebay for $10 IIRC.
Takes close to 2A at 12v, was going to put them on my back porch running from a solar panel-car battery at night.
Just did a quick check on eBay, and saw these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-12V-5630-30-LED-50cm-Car-Vehicle-Flexible-Waterproof-Strip-Light-Free-Ship-/221863062770?hash=item33a811acf2
These look cool too at $1/free shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-LED-30cm-Car-Motor-Vehicle-Flexible-Waterproof-Strip-Light-5-color-LX-/262022142908?hash=item3d01bc9bbc
If you don't need it right this minute, you can probably spend $5 and experiment a bit and save some cash.
These are not cheap - a 16-foot roll was about $225 but we have used them for over a year now with no problems and they are on an average of 8-10 hours per day. They are UL rated so not much to worry about from a safety aspect. The current rating for this strip is about 240 mA per foot so the entire 16 feet uses under 4 Amps of current. My installation is wired up into three zones so even less current in each feed wire - easily handled by 18 AWG wire. I used only a single strip running the entire length of the cabinets (mounted about 2" back from the front edge). Under the corner cabinet I ran a second strip offset about 8" from the front strip to keep the deep corner well lit. I bought one of their UL rated 12 V power supplies to run everything and have plenty of spare current for additional LEDs. At 2.88 Watts per foot (46 Watts total) they are very inexpensive to run and the quality and quantity of the light makes for a very pleasant working environment. Sometimes these are the only lights on in the entire kitchen. It is such a pleasure to work on the counter with these LED lights under the cabinets. Once you install them you will wonder how you survived without them!
I have 3 zones of control using a Propeller. I originally used a couple of strips of metallic tape applied to the under edge of each cabinet section as touch switches to signal ON/OFF and dim control input to the Propeller. I had some difficulty getting this to work consistently and over the dry New England winter static electricity wreacked havoc with the Propeller inputs (a static shock to the touch strip would cause the Propeller to reset!). I had to resort to a wireless key fob until I can debug the touch switches. I want to get voice activation capability and RTC timing controls added but have not had the time to set this up.
I am also thinking about putting up a strip of RGB LEDs on top of the cabinets for fun accent lighting (holiday colors, blinking and changing colors for the kids, etc.). These will likely be the inexpensive RGB strip (e.g. Adafruit) since getting the right white color and brightness is not going to be needed.
Wow, those seem incredibly expensive!
I am expecting to do something similar in the new house, however I will probably go with Cree/Nichia/LemiLEDs 3W discretes on the basic star boards. Even doing that I expect no more than $3-4/ea, @60-100 lumens per.
A good clean white like 3000-3200K should work and not be too blue as some of the 'Sunlight' LED's are 4000K. And I would try to get the highest CRI you can, will make a big difference.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?91-LED
http://www.ledsupply.com/leds/cree-xlamp-xp-l-high-density-led-star
The Elemental LED strip works out to 4.8¢/lumen ($225 for 16.4 feet at 286 lumens per foot) so in line with the CREE LEDs. At 286 lumens per linear foot this strip really puts out a lot of light.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pcs-10W-10-Watt-High-Power-Bright-900Lm-LED-Bulb-Pure-White-Lamp-Light-New-/291373313410?hash=item43d733ed82
You can get a volume discount if you get 10 at a time, you have to search for a while to get best deal as always.
Comes in blue white, soft white and warm white. I use warm white lately.
I use regular applicance cord, its cheap and way more than sufficient for the job.
We have lots of old 12 volt power supplies, I just find one that has the right amps for the number of LEDS.
I also use a dimmer
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Dimmer-Switch-for-LED-Strip-Light-12V-8A-Mountable-with-Terminals-/251985183083?hash=item3aab7cc16b
or like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-8A-IR-Remote-LED-Light-Lamp-Dimmer-12-Key-Adjustable-Brightness-Controller-/261555270297?hash=item3ce5e8b299
Here is the trick:
solder the wires to the led, epoxy tthe led to a small scrap of aluminim (for mounting and for heat sink), and expoy a flat glass marble over the LED. I get a bag of 100 flat glass marbles from the dollar store for a buck.
I Use 2 meter length of wire for each module, and connect everything to top of the cabinets with wire nuts.
A handy thing is that if the power goes out, they can run off batteries.
The set in my kitchen have been used for 2-3 years without noticable decrease in brightness.
I've seen those before, might use them for garage or other bulk lighting, as they are so blue-shifted.
Good site: http://www.seesmartled.com/kb/choosing_color_temperature/
I like some of those tips, dollar store finds can often be repurposed.
Always on the lookout for someone throwing away decent appliance cords. Can't believe how expensive wire is even at HD.
For LED bases, I'm wondering if cheap copper stock might be better/cheaper for thermal conductivity, aside from looking cool.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/203159827/16-gauge-copper-sheet-metal?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_supplies-low-other&utm_custom1=01aab1b2-f5a2-420a-9c7f-fef588930730&kpid=203159827&gclid=CI2Q-MHb5scCFUlqfgod78oGZQ
The cold white modules are blue like fluorescent lights, yes;
however, the warm white modules have light similar to the halogen puck lights they replaced.
As an added bonus, if these are run directly off a 9 volt battery, they need no additional components, and are about as bright as any flashlight I've run across. I've been using these for all kinds of stuff.