Yep, still all true isn't it?
As I said already somewhere here, the fact that I opened with "C:> vim hello.c" should have indicated I had tongue in cheek and not being entirely serious. Perhaps I should have spread some smileys around that post.
Heater,
So in other words it is just a more literate way of saying "Windows sux, Linux rulz"...
You can go ahead and keep up your "evangelizing" or whatever you think it is, after all it does help build community and promote the use of Parallax products very well doesn't it?
Sorry to have a fight in the middle of your party Bruce.
C.W.
No fighting involved here. Only debate.
No, it's not a more literate way of saying "Windows sux, Linux rulz". And I don't believe I have ever said anything like that, literately or otherwise. Because:
1) Windows is an operating system, Linux is a kernel. They are not comparable. Linux by itself is essentially useless, it sucks big time.
2) There are many operating systems based on Linux. They all suck in some way or other.
3) At the end of they day if the tool does what you need to do it sucks less than the tool that does not.
What I'm seeing is that if you use these things long enough you end up thinking they suck, no matter what they are. That is why programming languages keep springing up. That is why operating systems keep springing up. And editors and web app frameworks and databases so on and so on.
I'm not sure that I do "evangelizing" or even want to. I'm also allergic to any talk of "community". What is that? We contact each other over the net, we perhaps exchange ideas, we move on. How is that a "community". We are a fleeting alliance of enlightened self interest.
No, my arguments are not about the technical merits of anything. They are about monopoly, power, control, dependency on people you cannot trust. Yes, politics.
Sorry.
I think Heater has it right when he attributes much of the slow-down in forum posts to the competition. There are so many platforms! At the same time, prices have never been lower. Also, it's not that people defect, ie, abandon Parallax entirely. It's just that perhaps their current project involves some other chip. I'm entirely confident that a vast amount of activity will follow the P2, both before and after its incarnation in silicon.
Meanwhile, for the many (like me) who use the P1 frequently, it is difficult to find a question that hasn't already been answered. In fact it was probably asked and answered before 2008.
I used to check the forums multiple times per day because there was so much activity. This was mostly the P2 forum.
Nowadays there is rarely anything interesting being posted. I think this is what Bruce is getting at. No new big projects (apart from Tachyon).
Even Erco isn't posting his daily eBay bargains in the General forum.
My problem is that every time I have a real world, as in for profit, problem the Prop cannot do it.
Just now I need to collect data from four RS485 streams at 115200 baud and shovel them into an ethernet connection. It would be great if the device could also decode the binary packets and forward them to a web server.
Seems I'll end up using a MOXA serial port server. These things always feel like they are far too expensive for what they do.
Heck, my company needs these kinds of things and would not even care if they were developed in the open and shared. That is not the core business.
Meanwhile, for the many (like me) who use the P1 frequently, it is difficult to find a question that hasn't already been answered. In fact it was probably asked and answered before 2008.
Are you saying the new forum's search works so well, that a reason activity is lower, is because all answers can be found quickly and in a single search ? Dreams are free...
I'm sure tachyon can handle the shunting of data between serial and some eth gadget easily enough. But where does the IP stack come from?
@Leon,
Sure an XMOS can do that as well. Trust me, I think about that too.
Bottom line is that by the time you have put either device on a board with the required external components, did I mention surge protection?, and connectors and a case there is no way to beat the price of a MOXA box. Some 500 dollars or so.
Which is really annoying because what we want amounts to a cheap 50 dollar SBC, think Raspi or whatever,
with four RS485 ports.
I don't see a way to get it cheaper unless we want to make a million of them...
I'm sure tachyon can handle the shunting of data between serial and some eth gadget easily enough. But where does the IP stack come from?
@Leon,
Sure an XMOS can do that as well. Trust me, I think about that too.
Bottom line is that by the time you have put either device on a board with the required external components, did I mention surge protection?, and connectors and a case there is no way to beat the price of a MOXA box. Some 500 dollars or so.
Which is really annoying because what we want amounts to a cheap 50 dollar SBC, think Raspi or whatever,
with four RS485 ports.
I don't see a way to get it cheaper unless we want to make a million of them...
That's why I use the WIZnet chips with the hardwired stack, not that it's not possible either to write a software stack. I'm doing similar things like this all the time, it's right up my alley and one of the reasons why I felt it necessary to develop Tachyon if I was going to keep using the Propeller. At present I mainly log data, serve up web pages, or serve up FTP files, or just plain Telnet into the device with a Forth command line but as demonstrated just recently I was running a video game at the same time as all of this which you could also "spy"on while it's playing. But even then I still have at least 4 cogs free sitting around waiting to be used.
I think even my little IoT5500 +P8 module plugged into the main pcb with the RS485 ports will do what you want otherwise I have units that have up to 6 RS485 posts and could have the IoT5500 module fitted. It wouldn't be 50 bucks but definitely cheaper than a MOXA.
I would imagine that many members like me, have taken a back seat to all the changes thrust upon us, with forum participation declining and many of the familiar, knowledgeable faces rarely posting. This forum was once a flurry of activity and interesting discussion. I miss those good ole days and I would like to see them return.I agree. I was looking back at some of the threads I have started - some have 50,000 to 60,000 views. One is up to 155,000 views. And since this forum started, I am checking in far less and am less inclined to start projects based on the Propeller. Of all the issues flagged, the main one for me is I simply can't read it. The font is too small, and this applies with multiple browsers and multiple machines. I see people are adding skins and other browser tweaks to fix the problem, but some of the computers I log in from are locked down. Yes, as someone who has over half a million views on posts I have started, I miss the good old days too. I hope Parallax is listening.
Of all the issues flagged, the main one for me is I simply can't read it. The font is too small, and this applies with multiple browsers and multiple machines.
Did you try Ctrl-MouseWheel, (or Customize.Zoom) to Zoom the Browser page ?
or just plain <ctrl><plus> to zoom in, <ctrl><minus> to zoom out, <ctrl><zero> to reset zoom. Use the standard - and + to the right of the 1 to 0 keys without shifts.
Yes zoom works fine, but then if I am browsing other sites as well, I have to keep zooming out. Maybe it is just me. Feeling a bit grumpy at the moment, so I'll build some Arduino projects to cheer myself up. Having a lot of fun with ILI9341 240x320 full color displays at present - low as $6 on ebay.
IMHO the forum should be represented in standard fashion that does not require the user to change his setting from normal use. Anything less is an unreasonable expectation and turns the user experience off immediately.
I cannot attest to anything other than my iPhone 6+ since I have been away. However, the usual pinch to zoom does not work but it does on the few other forums I have visited. I can read the forum on my iPhone with my glasses on. I used to sometimes read without my glasses but on this forum it's impossible.
It has been more than 3 weeks since the new forum software was released and we have not seen any of the major, and I might add standard, fixes being done. Clearly Parallax are not listening anymore! I am particularly annoyed at the sudden reversal in Parallax's attitude and I sincerely hope it's not becoming endemic.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
IMHO the forum should be represented in standard fashion that does not require the user to change his setting from normal use. Anything less is an unreasonable expectation and turns the user experience off immediately.
Agreed, they certainky should choose a default font/size that does not need customer Zoom, but as response from Parallax is glacial at times, a workaround seemed a more practical suggestion.
idbruce said Over the years, I have always said that "Content is King". This forum needs more content to get us rolling forward again.
I've been thinking about this statement. Years ago when the propeller chip came out, it had an amazing price/performance point. But the march of progress in electronics means smaller, faster, cheaper all the time. A chip also needs support components - regulator, xtal, capacitors etc, and it is now possible to get a complete arduino board ($6) for less than just the bare bones propeller chip (?$8). It isn't just the price though, it is the support. I did a lot of work a few years back with LCD displays for the propeller - at the time this was cutting edge, but now there are SPI displays available that use less pins, are just as fast, and are far cheaper. It takes effort to write the drivers for displays. In the arduino world, these drivers appear regularly, they are improved out in the real world, and then when stable, they get incorporated into the IDE. This is a continuous process - it could be happening with the Proptool too but it doesn't seem to be.Another example would be the ESP8266 module - it appeared on the scene last year - wifi for $4, then it became possible to reflash the module with a new operating system, then it appeared in the dropdown menu of the arduino IDE, and now in the last few months, it is possible to write code in arduino C and program the ESP8266 with this. The same process could have happened with Spin - it could be possible to incorporate this into the proptool IDE. There are enough smarts on this forum to do this. I'm not sure how to fix this. But I guess I'm one of the people not making as many propeller projects as I used to.
BTW, IMO I think the Prop has had a lot of effort put into the tools lately but there still must be some problem with them or else people just aren't using the Prop because I don't see any real projects as a result. Perhaps the P1 is going the way of the SX48 and Stamps too? Just think, we could have had a P2 years ago with P3 in the works, and even though P2 is shaping up well (again) it is no different to the optimism of past years and still no sniff of any prototype P2 silicon, only it seems the musty smell of P1. Mind you, I like my P1 but I make it tasty with lots of Tachyon butter
One thing we have to realize is that the Propeller is a mature product. (Please note: "mature" does not mean "outdated" or "obsolete" -- far from it.) We cannot expect that the foment we all enjoyed back in 2006, with new apps cresting almost daily, to continue forever. That foment has been encapsulated in the many objects referenced here and in the OBEX that people continue to use. Our focus, instead, should be on helping new Propeller users get up to speed with the techniques and objects that have already been put forth. That's certainly not to say that there are no new uses for the Prop that no one's thought of yet. And, given that there are, I'm sure we'll read about them here first!
-Phil
These are 2.2". There are similar ones that have a touchscreen and are a bit bigger. All using ILI9341 and SPI interface. Interesting discussion on the speed here https://hackaday.io/post/18729 - should be possible to do on the propeller too. In fact the hardware would be easier as no need to do 5V to 3V translation.
It has been more than 3 weeks since the new forum software was released and we have not seen any of the major, and I might add standard, fixes being done. Clearly Parallax are not listening anymore! I am particularly annoyed at the sudden reversal in Parallax's attitude and I sincerely hope it's not becoming endemic.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
I was thinking nearly the same thing today. It's been almost a month and not one single, simple change has been implemented.
It has been more than 3 weeks since the new forum software was released and we have not seen any of the major, and I might add standard, fixes being done. Clearly Parallax are not listening anymore! I am particularly annoyed at the sudden reversal in Parallax's attitude and I sincerely hope it's not becoming endemic.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
I was thinking nearly the same thing today. It's been almost a month and not one single, simple change has been implemented.
TAKE A DEEP BREATH.... NOW EXHALE
The last thing we need is to lose good members due to formatting issues.
Ah heck, my next comment deserves a separate thread.
those listed as fixed, and the major ones that have not been fixed (fundamental forum use problems) show a clear inadequacy, either on the new forum software or on the people trying to fix the forum software.
As I said I am so frustrated at what is being currently shoved down our throats.
That is one BIG reason for my lack of posts. I am actively looking for some good alternative forums. The only thread I am actively involved in is the P2 thread.
It has been more than 3 weeks since the new forum software was released and we have not seen any of the major, and I might add standard, fixes being done. Clearly Parallax are not listening anymore! I am particularly annoyed at the sudden reversal in Parallax's attitude and I sincerely hope it's not becoming endemic.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
I was thinking nearly the same thing today. It's been almost a month and not one single, simple change has been implemented.
Comments
"Any of that ring a bell?"
Yep, still all true isn't it?
As I said already somewhere here, the fact that I opened with "C:> vim hello.c" should have indicated I had tongue in cheek and not being entirely serious. Perhaps I should have spread some smileys around that post.
Heater,
So in other words it is just a more literate way of saying "Windows sux, Linux rulz"...
You can go ahead and keep up your "evangelizing" or whatever you think it is, after all it does help build community and promote the use of Parallax products very well doesn't it?
Sorry to have a fight in the middle of your party Bruce.
C.W.
No, it's not a more literate way of saying "Windows sux, Linux rulz". And I don't believe I have ever said anything like that, literately or otherwise. Because:
1) Windows is an operating system, Linux is a kernel. They are not comparable. Linux by itself is essentially useless, it sucks big time.
2) There are many operating systems based on Linux. They all suck in some way or other.
3) At the end of they day if the tool does what you need to do it sucks less than the tool that does not.
What I'm seeing is that if you use these things long enough you end up thinking they suck, no matter what they are. That is why programming languages keep springing up. That is why operating systems keep springing up. And editors and web app frameworks and databases so on and so on.
I'm not sure that I do "evangelizing" or even want to. I'm also allergic to any talk of "community". What is that? We contact each other over the net, we perhaps exchange ideas, we move on. How is that a "community". We are a fleeting alliance of enlightened self interest.
No, my arguments are not about the technical merits of anything. They are about monopoly, power, control, dependency on people you cannot trust. Yes, politics.
Sorry.
Meanwhile, for the many (like me) who use the P1 frequently, it is difficult to find a question that hasn't already been answered. In fact it was probably asked and answered before 2008.
Nowadays there is rarely anything interesting being posted. I think this is what Bruce is getting at. No new big projects (apart from Tachyon).
Even Erco isn't posting his daily eBay bargains in the General forum.
Just now I need to collect data from four RS485 streams at 115200 baud and shovel them into an ethernet connection. It would be great if the device could also decode the binary packets and forward them to a web server.
Seems I'll end up using a MOXA serial port server. These things always feel like they are far too expensive for what they do.
Heck, my company needs these kinds of things and would not even care if they were developed in the open and shared. That is not the core business.
XMOS would be ideal for that application. I wonder why you haven't considered it.
Meanwhile, for the many (like me) who use the P1 frequently, it is difficult to find a question that hasn't already been answered. In fact it was probably asked and answered before 2008.
I'm sure tachyon can handle the shunting of data between serial and some eth gadget easily enough. But where does the IP stack come from?
@Leon,
Sure an XMOS can do that as well. Trust me, I think about that too.
Bottom line is that by the time you have put either device on a board with the required external components, did I mention surge protection?, and connectors and a case there is no way to beat the price of a MOXA box. Some 500 dollars or so.
Which is really annoying because what we want amounts to a cheap 50 dollar SBC, think Raspi or whatever,
with four RS485 ports.
I don't see a way to get it cheaper unless we want to make a million of them...
I'm sure tachyon can handle the shunting of data between serial and some eth gadget easily enough. But where does the IP stack come from?
@Leon,
Sure an XMOS can do that as well. Trust me, I think about that too.
Bottom line is that by the time you have put either device on a board with the required external components, did I mention surge protection?, and connectors and a case there is no way to beat the price of a MOXA box. Some 500 dollars or so.
Which is really annoying because what we want amounts to a cheap 50 dollar SBC, think Raspi or whatever,
with four RS485 ports.
I don't see a way to get it cheaper unless we want to make a million of them...
That's why I use the WIZnet chips with the hardwired stack, not that it's not possible either to write a software stack. I'm doing similar things like this all the time, it's right up my alley and one of the reasons why I felt it necessary to develop Tachyon if I was going to keep using the Propeller. At present I mainly log data, serve up web pages, or serve up FTP files, or just plain Telnet into the device with a Forth command line but as demonstrated just recently I was running a video game at the same time as all of this which you could also "spy"on while it's playing. But even then I still have at least 4 cogs free sitting around waiting to be used.
I think even my little IoT5500 +P8 module plugged into the main pcb with the RS485 ports will do what you want otherwise I have units that have up to 6 RS485 posts and could have the IoT5500 module fitted. It wouldn't be 50 bucks but definitely cheaper than a MOXA.
Of all the issues flagged, the main one for me is I simply can't read it. The font is too small, and this applies with multiple browsers and multiple machines.
Did you try Ctrl-MouseWheel, (or Customize.Zoom) to Zoom the Browser page ?
Browsers offer overrides and zoom capability that works well and is time tested.
I would have to characterize these as user problems at this time. You all have options, why not use them?
My browser (firefox) applies user-Zoom on a per-tab basis, so just use one tab for the forum ?
I cannot attest to anything other than my iPhone 6+ since I have been away. However, the usual pinch to zoom does not work but it does on the few other forums I have visited. I can read the forum on my iPhone with my glasses on. I used to sometimes read without my glasses but on this forum it's impossible.
It has been more than 3 weeks since the new forum software was released and we have not seen any of the major, and I might add standard, fixes being done. Clearly Parallax are not listening anymore! I am particularly annoyed at the sudden reversal in Parallax's attitude and I sincerely hope it's not becoming endemic.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
Agreed, they certainky should choose a default font/size that does not need customer Zoom, but as response from Parallax is glacial at times, a workaround seemed a more practical suggestion.
I've been thinking about this statement. Years ago when the propeller chip came out, it had an amazing price/performance point. But the march of progress in electronics means smaller, faster, cheaper all the time. A chip also needs support components - regulator, xtal, capacitors etc, and it is now possible to get a complete arduino board ($6) for less than just the bare bones propeller chip (?$8). It isn't just the price though, it is the support. I did a lot of work a few years back with LCD displays for the propeller - at the time this was cutting edge, but now there are SPI displays available that use less pins, are just as fast, and are far cheaper. It takes effort to write the drivers for displays. In the arduino world, these drivers appear regularly, they are improved out in the real world, and then when stable, they get incorporated into the IDE. This is a continuous process - it could be happening with the Proptool too but it doesn't seem to be.Another example would be the ESP8266 module - it appeared on the scene last year - wifi for $4, then it became possible to reflash the module with a new operating system, then it appeared in the dropdown menu of the arduino IDE, and now in the last few months, it is possible to write code in arduino C and program the ESP8266 with this. The same process could have happened with Spin - it could be possible to incorporate this into the proptool IDE. There are enough smarts on this forum to do this. I'm not sure how to fix this. But I guess I'm one of the people not making as many propeller projects as I used to.
BTW, IMO I think the Prop has had a lot of effort put into the tools lately but there still must be some problem with them or else people just aren't using the Prop because I don't see any real projects as a result. Perhaps the P1 is going the way of the SX48 and Stamps too? Just think, we could have had a P2 years ago with P3 in the works, and even though P2 is shaping up well (again) it is no different to the optimism of past years and still no sniff of any prototype P2 silicon, only it seems the musty smell of P1. Mind you, I like my P1 but I make it tasty with lots of Tachyon butter
-Phil
http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-analogue-ring-meter-on-colour-TFT-display/
ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2-inch-2-2-SPI-TFT-LCD-Display-module-240x320-ILI9341-51-AVR-STM32-ARM-PIC-/181437065789?hash=item2a3e7dea3d
These are 2.2". There are similar ones that have a touchscreen and are a bit bigger. All using ILI9341 and SPI interface. Interesting discussion on the speed here https://hackaday.io/post/18729 - should be possible to do on the propeller too. In fact the hardware would be easier as no need to do 5V to 3V translation.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
I was thinking nearly the same thing today. It's been almost a month and not one single, simple change has been implemented.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
I was thinking nearly the same thing today. It's been almost a month and not one single, simple change has been implemented.
I wouldn't say "not one".
http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/161405/new-parallax-forums-issue-report-list#latest
The last thing we need is to lose good members due to formatting issues.
Ah heck, my next comment deserves a separate thread.
As I said I am so frustrated at what is being currently shoved down our throats.
That is one BIG reason for my lack of posts. I am actively looking for some good alternative forums. The only thread I am actively involved in is the P2 thread.
It has been more than 3 weeks since the new forum software was released and we have not seen any of the major, and I might add standard, fixes being done. Clearly Parallax are not listening anymore! I am particularly annoyed at the sudden reversal in Parallax's attitude and I sincerely hope it's not becoming endemic.
The only real activity now is on the P2 and there we are all restraining as we want to get the P2 sooner rather than later.
I was thinking nearly the same thing today. It's been almost a month and not one single, simple change has been implemented.
I wouldn't say "not one".
http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/161405/new-parallax-forums-issue-report-list#latest