For some of those, let's say just having a worthy shell and scripting tools handy, you either expand your working knowledge to things like PowerShell, or install some tools.
That's the "mostly" in "mostly plain vanilla"
For others, one can work differently sometimes too.
There is always the cost of reaching peak performance and just getting it done nicely. I usually apply the headache and "do I have to share what I did?", and "do I have to support it?" metrics to resolve this.
Often, plain vanilla is a bit slower, or more steps, but it also is no supporting documentation, "refer to your operating system manual for details" kind of things as well as, "you did something special and now it doesn't work, help" avoidance too.
If I'm working with somebody savvy, yeah. Get some stuff, and enjoy the work some. If not? It's all business, here is what you do, thanks, gotta go, bye.
And you are in that developer niche too. Windows is worst case for you. Understandable. If I were doing it full time, I would absolutely not disagree.
potatohead,
"...either expand your working knowledge to things like PowerShell,". That would probably do it. Only problem is despite being in the business for decades I still have to expand my working knowledge every day. There is a lot to keep up with in this ever changing world of technology. I choose to invest my last remaining brain cells into something more useful and interesting than yet another shell. Especially a shell that runs only on a legacy system. I want whatever I do to be portable, platform independent.
"...or install some tools". That can help. So far my experience is they come with enough hassle that its not worth it.
I was so fixated on my new toy I forgot to look way over here in general discussions... but the new forum software reminded me. I am going out to get a bkburger and then I will mash through this
Too true.
Brain cells, that's the precious resource here. And time. Both running out at a frightening rate. Money won't help.
I feel very lucky that I am surrounded by very young devs who feel the same way about the old school proprietary ways. Gives me hope for the future.
I have pretty much accepted that there will always be Windows users. In Taiwan, it seems there is far more loyalty to Windows than elsewhere. Mostly because they got into WindowsXP and all the applications when everything was available in bootleg copies, and they know somebody that can make it all work. Windows XP was difficult for Taiwanese, so now they presume Linux must be even more difficult.
The tendency is to dread Linux as the average user can't find someone they trust to fix it.
But the world is evolving. Everyone that isn't using an iPhone seems to be using an Android phone -- both UNIX derivatives and somewhat Linux related.
Eventually, with Android and devices like the Raspberry Pi or CubbieBoard3, Asians will begin to figure out that Linux is a need-to-know OS. And of course, the graphics on these devices are part of the leading edge.
++++++++++++
But there are those dreadful proprietary trends that slip into Android.
My ZenFone just received a clean-up utility that I ran as I got a dire warning to get rid of clutter. Fooled again.
After I ran the clean-up, it indicated I should run another test for AV. And finally, it claims my current AV is no good and for a few dollars I should buy their product for immediate protection to this impending doom.
My overall impression is this is all adware of the worst kind --- very creepy adware at that. And I certainly am familiar with the sales pitch from my days as a Windows user.
The truth about Anti-virus software and clutter cleaners is that prey on one's fears that were created by Window's failures. These vendors will hound you with annual updates and dire pop-ups that may all be fiction. A Linux or a Unix system should be able to manage these issues without buying additional apps. But that doesn't keep these people from trying ... does it now?
I think I can manage the clutter clean up without purchasing 'protection' software as Linux doesn't have a Registry, and the Unix file system offers more security.
And as far as the need for AV software; my Ubuntu, Mint, and Debian have never gotten a virus. I have doubts that Android will. The usual virus attempts seem to appear as a .exe file failing to load because Linux doesn't use .exe files. LOL.
So either you buy a fix in Windows, or Apple -- or you DIY a fix in Linux. I am not sure where Android stands.
All those XP using asians, like most in the western world, do not want a computer. They want an appliance. An appliance that does stuff like surfing the net, email and so on. I don't blame then for getting it the cheapest way they know how.
Despite the wonderfulness of the Linux kernel it seems to me that an Android phone and it's app infrastructure is designed to leak information about you in any and every way possible. I suspect the same is true of any phone.
I do use another machine for casual use. But it isn't here and it isn't windows. I was looking around for Bible Code freeware... and it was available only on windows.... laugh yourself silly. It is hysterical to me too:)
OK... currently. AVG seems to have cleaned up everything except the empty command window popping up (which I think we all agree means Powershell... a while back I tried Powershell to create a serial port... I love it but haven't scratched the surface of it) and the other window asking me where to run javascript. I told it to use a program that doesn't support javascript... didn't do anything. AVG left me alone for a few hours... which is good and then report a threat which it said was eliminating. (And I think it did because my browser is ok.)
A proxy is being used to do all of this. I don't use a proxy and I turned it off...It got turned back on. So, it isn't mine
From this I surmise that there is a powershell script somewhere, which is connecting me to a proxy and then illegally launching a javascript... which windows 8 picks up because it is using a method that windows can't validate in some way... is that about right?
About unix,linux, etc. I like it. I have a couple of pi's. I find the entire environment and way of doing things a lot of fun. Great people over there too!
BUT
MicroSoft is buying Altera. In a short period of time,I expect Altera to have a problem generating a version of Quartus that works with any flavor of any other operating system. So, there might be an escape route today for those that want it...but that could change tomorrow. Solving my Windows 8 problems in Windows 8 seems to make the most sense for me. Apple seems to handle all of these issues in their updates... why doesn't Microsoft?
Happened in March Altera is listed as ALTR. If you google altr you can see what the financial community thinks... I had intended to convert one of my IRA's in March and buy Altera, ON Semi and Omnivision... not knowing about this acquisition.... look at what I would have made... Last week I was looking at Micron... I need to follow my hunches a little more. Too late on all of them. I might follow my hunch about the 123 boards though.. So, you guys want one... better get one before the price goes up:)
MS would know exactly what to do with it. All those people holding Altera stock... in at 52... better be careful and what MS very carefully. It is very good for MS. They are smart. Not as smart as Ken and Chip but with a lot more to play with. MS starts doing what you would expect. Ken better be ready to jump in an reap the rewards:)
From this I surmise that there is a powershell script somewhere,
which is connecting me to a proxy and then illegally launching a
javascript... which windows 8 picks up because it is using a method
that windows can't validate in some way... is that about right?
Intel agreed to buy Altera a month or so ago. I think the only Altera Microsoft bought were some FPGAs for use in Bing search server experiments. At least, I think I remember reading something about that a year or so ago.
I've been thinking about this... I think I'm right. I think there is power-whatever linking me up to a proxy and then trying to illegally start javascript...
so I think what I should do is pay for the Bible Code software ... and then cross reference windows 8 with trojan and IPaddress and see what pops up.
That's what I'm going to do. It seems stable enough for me to work on... So, I'm going to get a sub-project posted and then go back and fix this thing. Thanks to everyone. I can always count on information and entertainment.
And ... I have to go back and look seriously at Window's scripting. I was meaning to stick with it and it just got away from me. It really does seem to be worth the effort.
AV software protection and the possibility of clean recovery never managed to give me the kind of secure results that I had hoped for. I grew weary of throwing more money at the problem.
I do wonder if Windows is any more economical and secure than Apple if one really requires the additional access to graphics and video. Either way, I just am happy to keep my money and use Blender, Image Magik, and GIMP in Linux at no cash outlay.
I do admit there are enterprises out there that just have to use Windows to keep their income stream. I do not. I would be tempted to use Apple iOS instead as it is UNIX based, like Linux -- and I do grasp how security works so well in UNIX based systems.
Loopy, was following Chanology a few years back when Anonymous made its world debut. Wasn't aware of Panda's association, it was just one that I'd used on a lark recently and was considered pretty decent.
As for why Potatohead believes in Windows? Easy. Many of us are probably using work machines, with come running Windows.
Or, have lap/desktops that are running Windows so that we can access same, or simple familiarity.
Linux is world's better now than in the 90's, however I never have BSOD's, virus or driver issues on my systems, so why should I change?
If W10 is as crappy as W7 then I simply won't move to it, and will use W7 until EOL or something better comes along.
I could run Linux, and hope that my apps all work in WINE, however Linux is IMHO a spaghetti of maturity, bleeding-edge, and arcane comand-line-fu.
I know there is Debian and others Stable, however Windows 'just works' for me.
Now if I had to pay for Windows, I might be more interested.
Heater, I fail to see how you can fail to see how anyone gets anything done on Windows
Most of the world seems to get along with Windows and all its pain just fine, for all the reasons Potatohead and others have mentioned.
If anything, is gotten far better the past decade, if my local family/friends requests for assistance is anything to compare against previously.
I think you are either doing something far more complex than the average user or doing something wrong if Windows is causing you so much pain.
Unless its that you're more comfortable with a CLI OS, which is again outside the norm for desktops.
Most of the world uses Windows... If you want your work to be the most useful to the most people, then you can choose a cross-platform path, so that it doesn't matter or use Windows. For me it is really much simpler. If I were to move over to some flavor of Linux... it wouldn't be a matter of my choosing which to flavor. I have this computer only because I want to use Quartus II. My understanding is that is what dictates what I have to use. I seriously considered moving... and I might just do it. I really like the Pi. I would like to do more with it. If I were to move over to linux now, it would become natural to me and I could move my pi over to my desk and use that... keeping this computer completely off the net...it is very tempting and I greatly appreciate the conversation.
On the Intel vs MS confusion. I think I originally heard of it on this forum. The MS/Intel conflation occurred because while I don't invest in stocks, at one point I was considering it. So I was watching altera with an iphone app, which has a current news section. Invariably, when I look at the news for Altera, news for MS comes up... gradually over time, I must have mistaken the association.
You need to qualify your numbers - most of teh world's USER workstations/computers run Windows, most of the world's computers run Linux.
Don't tell the Laptop I'm using that is running Fedora 22 but it has Altera's Quartus II and Xilinx's Vivado loaded on it. I haven't had problems with either.
I think everyone else has pretty much covered the AV topic:
1) Don't talk to strangers!
2) If it looks to like too good to be true, it is!
3) If you are going someplace unsafe, get ALL your vaccinations (AV, adblock, noscript, etc.)
4) If you are going to do something stupid, wear protection (VMs)!
Comments
That's the "mostly" in "mostly plain vanilla"
For others, one can work differently sometimes too.
There is always the cost of reaching peak performance and just getting it done nicely. I usually apply the headache and "do I have to share what I did?", and "do I have to support it?" metrics to resolve this.
Often, plain vanilla is a bit slower, or more steps, but it also is no supporting documentation, "refer to your operating system manual for details" kind of things as well as, "you did something special and now it doesn't work, help" avoidance too.
If I'm working with somebody savvy, yeah. Get some stuff, and enjoy the work some. If not? It's all business, here is what you do, thanks, gotta go, bye.
And you are in that developer niche too. Windows is worst case for you. Understandable. If I were doing it full time, I would absolutely not disagree.
"...either expand your working knowledge to things like PowerShell,". That would probably do it. Only problem is despite being in the business for decades I still have to expand my working knowledge every day. There is a lot to keep up with in this ever changing world of technology. I choose to invest my last remaining brain cells into something more useful and interesting than yet another shell. Especially a shell that runs only on a legacy system. I want whatever I do to be portable, platform independent.
"...or install some tools". That can help. So far my experience is they come with enough hassle that its not worth it.
"It's not always money."
Too true.
Brain cells, that's the precious resource here. And time. Both running out at a frightening rate. Money won't help.
I feel very lucky that I am surrounded by very young devs who feel the same way about the old school proprietary ways. Gives me hope for the future.
The tendency is to dread Linux as the average user can't find someone they trust to fix it.
But the world is evolving. Everyone that isn't using an iPhone seems to be using an Android phone -- both UNIX derivatives and somewhat Linux related.
Eventually, with Android and devices like the Raspberry Pi or CubbieBoard3, Asians will begin to figure out that Linux is a need-to-know OS. And of course, the graphics on these devices are part of the leading edge.
++++++++++++
But there are those dreadful proprietary trends that slip into Android.
My ZenFone just received a clean-up utility that I ran as I got a dire warning to get rid of clutter. Fooled again.
After I ran the clean-up, it indicated I should run another test for AV. And finally, it claims my current AV is no good and for a few dollars I should buy their product for immediate protection to this impending doom.
My overall impression is this is all adware of the worst kind --- very creepy adware at that. And I certainly am familiar with the sales pitch from my days as a Windows user.
The truth about Anti-virus software and clutter cleaners is that prey on one's fears that were created by Window's failures. These vendors will hound you with annual updates and dire pop-ups that may all be fiction. A Linux or a Unix system should be able to manage these issues without buying additional apps. But that doesn't keep these people from trying ... does it now?
I think I can manage the clutter clean up without purchasing 'protection' software as Linux doesn't have a Registry, and the Unix file system offers more security.
And as far as the need for AV software; my Ubuntu, Mint, and Debian have never gotten a virus. I have doubts that Android will. The usual virus attempts seem to appear as a .exe file failing to load because Linux doesn't use .exe files. LOL.
So either you buy a fix in Windows, or Apple -- or you DIY a fix in Linux. I am not sure where Android stands.
Despite the wonderfulness of the Linux kernel it seems to me that an Android phone and it's app infrastructure is designed to leak information about you in any and every way possible. I suspect the same is true of any phone.
I do use another machine for casual use. But it isn't here and it isn't windows. I was looking around for Bible Code freeware... and it was available only on windows.... laugh yourself silly. It is hysterical to me too:)
OK... currently. AVG seems to have cleaned up everything except the empty command window popping up (which I think we all agree means Powershell... a while back I tried Powershell to create a serial port... I love it but haven't scratched the surface of it) and the other window asking me where to run javascript. I told it to use a program that doesn't support javascript... didn't do anything. AVG left me alone for a few hours... which is good and then report a threat which it said was eliminating. (And I think it did because my browser is ok.)
A proxy is being used to do all of this. I don't use a proxy and I turned it off...It got turned back on. So, it isn't mine
From this I surmise that there is a powershell script somewhere, which is connecting me to a proxy and then illegally launching a javascript... which windows 8 picks up because it is using a method that windows can't validate in some way... is that about right?
BUT
MicroSoft is buying Altera. In a short period of time,I expect Altera to have a problem generating a version of Quartus that works with any flavor of any other operating system. So, there might be an escape route today for those that want it...but that could change tomorrow. Solving my Windows 8 problems in Windows 8 seems to make the most sense for me. Apple seems to handle all of these issues in their updates... why doesn't Microsoft?
"MicroSoft is buying Altera."
Do what?
Can you point to a story I may have missed ?
As far as I know Intel may be buying Altera,
MS, would not know what to do with it.
MicroSoft is buying Altera.
Intel is buying Altera, not MS; as Heater said.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/intel-agrees-to-buy-altera-for-16-7-billion-1433162006
This thread is about Viruses and Windows 8.1 There is a thread on the 1..2..3 board.
http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/161545/propeller-1-2-3-fpga-board-60054-available-to-forum-members-375#latest
Your lastest posts are going to be deleted as they have nothing to do with this thread.
From this I surmise that there is a powershell script somewhere,
which is connecting me to a proxy and then illegally launching a
javascript... which windows 8 picks up because it is using a method
that windows can't validate in some way... is that about right?
so I think what I should do is pay for the Bible Code software ... and then cross reference windows 8 with trojan and IPaddress and see what pops up.
Regarding PandaAV, it is just another red flag to me. That AV application has been linked to Scientology, so I am wary.
http://www.skeptictank.org/gen3/gen01948.htm
AV software protection and the possibility of clean recovery never managed to give me the kind of secure results that I had hoped for. I grew weary of throwing more money at the problem.
I do wonder if Windows is any more economical and secure than Apple if one really requires the additional access to graphics and video. Either way, I just am happy to keep my money and use Blender, Image Magik, and GIMP in Linux at no cash outlay.
I do admit there are enterprises out there that just have to use Windows to keep their income stream. I do not. I would be tempted to use Apple iOS instead as it is UNIX based, like Linux -- and I do grasp how security works so well in UNIX based systems.
Loopy, was following Chanology a few years back when Anonymous made its world debut. Wasn't aware of Panda's association, it was just one that I'd used on a lark recently and was considered pretty decent.
As for why Potatohead believes in Windows? Easy. Many of us are probably using work machines, with come running Windows.
Or, have lap/desktops that are running Windows so that we can access same, or simple familiarity.
Linux is world's better now than in the 90's, however I never have BSOD's, virus or driver issues on my systems, so why should I change?
If W10 is as crappy as W7 then I simply won't move to it, and will use W7 until EOL or something better comes along.
I could run Linux, and hope that my apps all work in WINE, however Linux is IMHO a spaghetti of maturity, bleeding-edge, and arcane comand-line-fu.
I know there is Debian and others Stable, however Windows 'just works' for me.
Now if I had to pay for Windows, I might be more interested.
Heater, I fail to see how you can fail to see how anyone gets anything done on Windows
Most of the world seems to get along with Windows and all its pain just fine, for all the reasons Potatohead and others have mentioned.
If anything, is gotten far better the past decade, if my local family/friends requests for assistance is anything to compare against previously.
I think you are either doing something far more complex than the average user or doing something wrong if Windows is causing you so much pain.
Unless its that you're more comfortable with a CLI OS, which is again outside the norm for desktops.
Many thanks to RDL2004 for correcting the error
You need to qualify your numbers - most of teh world's USER workstations/computers run Windows, most of the world's computers run Linux.
Don't tell the Laptop I'm using that is running Fedora 22 but it has Altera's Quartus II and Xilinx's Vivado loaded on it. I haven't had problems with either.
I think everyone else has pretty much covered the AV topic:
1) Don't talk to strangers!
2) If it looks to like too good to be true, it is!
3) If you are going someplace unsafe, get ALL your vaccinations (AV, adblock, noscript, etc.)
4) If you are going to do something stupid, wear protection (VMs)!