Any idea on the design of a long-range UAV that can travel about 30 km in a single charge that also requires vertical lift/landing & to hover at its targeted destination before flying back to base?
A hybrid with gas engine for lift and battery for hover - stability. The gas is a more efficient way for storage energy than batteries. For some reason there are no electric cross country airlines. Well, it's an idea but not necessarily a good one.
The uni I'm working in might be participating in a competition in Australia that has such requirement. This will also help us on future prototyping for others with similar requirement. I particularly favour the hybrid solution but isn't the switching between the gas engine & battery rather tricky or are there already a solution for that?
Yes, the GSM solution is already designed in (solution from Telit).
MacTuxLin
I suggest you look at gasoline motor model helicopters for this long distance. This is a very mature technology and easily adapted to auto-control.
The uni I'm working in might be participating in a competition in Australia that has such requirement. This will also help us on future prototyping for others with similar requirement. I particularly favour the hybrid solution but isn't the switching between the gas engine & battery rather tricky or are there already a solution for that?
Yes, the GSM solution is already designed in (solution from Telit).
Thanks.
Speculation: If the center gas engine produces a constant lift it can reduce the overall weight to zero. The batteries can then be conserved, and used mostly for maneuvering. With a prop in the center powered by gas and four other props powered by batteries, the rear two props can lift the back making the gas prop assist with moving forward. BTW: The ease of a project is inversely proportional to one's distance from it. I may as well be on the other side of the globe-- oh wait a minute, I am.
I think a gas (gasoline, not nitromethane) helicopter would be most appropriate if you need VTOL. You could easily get an hour flight time - mine will go for 45 minutes on it's standard size tank.
Speculation: If the center gas engine produces a constant lift it can reduce the overall weight to zero. The batteries can then be conserved, and used mostly for maneuvering. With a prop in the center powered by gas and four other props powered by batteries, the rear two props can lift the back making the gas prop assist with moving forward. BTW: The ease of a project is inversely proportional to one's distance from it. I may as well be on the other side of the globe-- oh wait a minute, I am.
Get in touch with your local RC Radio Control club. They undoubtedly have something already built and ready to fly. FYI - There was a trans Atlantic model airplane that crossed over & landed in England a few years back. The "Snoopy" project is trying to circumnavigate the Earth's oceans using a model sailboat.
From what I've been able to find, the longest multicopter endurance recorded was 97:23, or roughly 1 1/2 hrd. Regarding speed, the fastest I found was 126 KPH - both aircraft were optimized for their respective runs. More realistic speeds are in the neighborhood of 55 - 70 KPH. While it might be possible to fly a 30 KM mission, it would be stretching present technology and might only happen under ideal conditions, such as little/no wind. Would you fly FPV? That would require a camera, transmitter, which translates into additional weight not to mention power draw from your batteries. You could fly autonomously, but sending an aircraft out like that would be a real Smile shoot.
You might consider something like a winged VTOL craft - something that can tale off vertically and transition to winged forward motion, which would be more efficient. But such aircraft have extra weight - gears, servos to rotate the motors. There are a couple on the market but I don't know what their performance parameters are.
The only out-of-the-box solution is going to be a gasoline helicopter. There are certainly many other ways to accomplish the goal here but all would require a fair bit of engineering. The main disadvantage with the gas heli is that you really need to be very precise and methodical getting it set up correctly or else it will not fly well.
Depending upon what needs to happen during the vertical take off and landing part you may be able to use a 3D airplane. The kind that has enough power to hover by hanging on the prop. You could use one of those as a starting point and modify it to take off and land on it's tail. Need to keep it light though.
The only out-of-the-box solution is going to be a gasoline helicopter. There are certainly many other ways to accomplish the goal here but all would require a fair bit of engineering. The main disadvantage with the gas heli is that you really need to be very precise and methodical getting it set up correctly or else it will not fly well.
Depending upon what needs to happen during the vertical take off and landing part you may be able to use a 3D airplane. The kind that has enough power to hover by hanging on the prop. You could use one of those as a starting point and modify it to take off and land on it's tail. Need to keep it light though.
What size heli? Do you think a .90 nitro heli conversion to gas would give similar range?
What size heli? Do you think a .90 nitro heli conversion to gas would give similar range?
The gassers are a little larger than .90 size. Problem is that I don't know if anyone makes them anymore. Mine is from Miniature Aircraft, they are out of business now. JR used to make a good gasser, it too is no longer available. It seems used is the only way to get one now.
I'm curious where I would go to get these engines and fuel tanks as individual parts instead of a kit. I'm currently wanting to program a mobile ground control system with a n old laptop and an xbee and a smaller version of the mq9 reapers minus the firepower but dont think just batteries will cut it. Using a gas powered engine for propulsion would be great. I just need to find a place to get one.
Your milage would of course be much better if you could use an airplane. Twenty years ago or so I made an airplane with a relatively large 4-stroke motor. The 4-stroke motor used a lot less fuel than the 2-stroke counterparts. I also had an onboard electric starter on the airplane. The electric starter was a real head turner at the field. People were really surprised to see a glow fuel engine just start up by moving a lever on the transmitter box. The electric starter also allowed the motor to be shutdown and restarted in flight.
I've often thought it would be really cool to make some sort of hybrid quadcopter/airplane. The airplane would allow for relatively fuel efficient flight and the quadcopter would allow for vertical takeoff and landing. The glow fuel or gasoline engine could even be used to charge the batteries for the quadcopter's electric motors. With an electric starter, the large airplane motor could be shut off so it wouldn't interfere with the quadcopter's motion.
Transitioning from hover to level flight and back would be a trick but it sure sounds like a fun problem to work on.
Well, that's enough of my crazy ideas. This sort of contraption has often crossed my mind and this thread seemed like a good excuse to share the idea.
I'm curious where I would go to get these engines and fuel tanks as individual parts instead of a kit. I'm currently wanting to program a mobile ground control system with a n old laptop and an xbee and a smaller version of the mq9 reapers minus the firepower but dont think just batteries will cut it. Using a gas powered engine for propulsion would be great. I just need to find a place to get one.
Absolutely! It's been awhile since I've purchased this kind of stuff but I'll edit this post with a few links in the next few minutes.
TowerHobbies is the site I purchased most of my parts from. Here's a link to the glow fuel engines:
HobbyExpress (They used to be called Hobby-Lobby) sells the airplane which used the onboard starter. I'm pretty sure I purchased the onboard starter from them but they appear to only sell electric motors now. The airplane I used was their Telemaster.
The four stroke glow engines will get better flight time than regular glow engines but a 2 stroke gasoline engine will do better yet (I think). That ROV that crossed the Atlantic years ago used a modified glow four stroke engine.
Another option is to get a large electric helicopter like a T-Rex 700 and optimize it for carrying capacity (low weight, long hi lift blades [not symmetrical], low rpm) and carry a bunch of batteries, you should be able to go 30Km. The problem arises depending upon how much time you spend hovering at the target before returning home - and how much payload you need to carry.
Why not a mix between quadcopter and blimp with rotating rotors for fast forward speed and vtol then maybe a fifth motor for low power consumption forward motion possibly a quick release for the lighter than air containment. I'm not an expert but a pressurized tank filled with helium that you can control the lift with an exhaust valve also
Why not a mix between quadcopter and blimp with rotating rotors for fast forward speed and vtol then maybe a fifth motor for low power consumption forward motion possibly a quick release for the lighter than air containment. I'm not an expert but a pressurized tank filled with helium that you can control the lift with an exhaust valve also
Any idea on the design of a long-range UAV that can travel about 30 km in a single charge that also requires vertical lift/landing & to hover at its targeted destination before flying back to base?
Comments
Yes, the GSM solution is already designed in (solution from Telit).
Thanks.
I suggest you look at gasoline motor model helicopters for this long distance. This is a very mature technology and easily adapted to auto-control.
You might consider something like a winged VTOL craft - something that can tale off vertically and transition to winged forward motion, which would be more efficient. But such aircraft have extra weight - gears, servos to rotate the motors. There are a couple on the market but I don't know what their performance parameters are.
Depending upon what needs to happen during the vertical take off and landing part you may be able to use a 3D airplane. The kind that has enough power to hover by hanging on the prop. You could use one of those as a starting point and modify it to take off and land on it's tail. Need to keep it light though.
What size heli? Do you think a .90 nitro heli conversion to gas would give similar range?
Here's a pretty cheap .90 size kit - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14920__TZ_V2_90_Size_Nitro_3D_Helicopter_Kit_Torque_Tube_.html If parts are available for it that would be fairly inexpensive in comparison to something like an RMAX.
Twice the cost for the engine - http://www.amain.com/rc-helicopters/o.s.-max-105hz-helicopter-engine-osm18700/p220706?utm_source=Google-Base&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Product-Feeds&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4qqrBRDE2K_z7Pbvjo8BEiQA39AImafk_n85ehxjx0mI9XTsoSfSPykO05YuGVZvi6XaeSMaAi3M8P8HAQ
The gassers are a little larger than .90 size. Problem is that I don't know if anyone makes them anymore. Mine is from Miniature Aircraft, they are out of business now. JR used to make a good gasser, it too is no longer available. It seems used is the only way to get one now.
http://electronicdesign.com/embedded/gallery-unusual-uavs-auvsi-2015#slide-0-field_images-839771?NL=ED-03&Issue=ED-03_20150603_ED-03_109&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPG05000000869476&utm_campaign=2326&utm_medium=email&elq2=2dbf3d13527441178973d8ff34142ce0
I've often thought it would be really cool to make some sort of hybrid quadcopter/airplane. The airplane would allow for relatively fuel efficient flight and the quadcopter would allow for vertical takeoff and landing. The glow fuel or gasoline engine could even be used to charge the batteries for the quadcopter's electric motors. With an electric starter, the large airplane motor could be shut off so it wouldn't interfere with the quadcopter's motion.
Transitioning from hover to level flight and back would be a trick but it sure sounds like a fun problem to work on.
Well, that's enough of my crazy ideas. This sort of contraption has often crossed my mind and this thread seemed like a good excuse to share the idea.
Absolutely! It's been awhile since I've purchased this kind of stuff but I'll edit this post with a few links in the next few minutes.
TowerHobbies is the site I purchased most of my parts from. Here's a link to the glow fuel engines:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0297p?C=GC&S=A
HobbyExpress (They used to be called Hobby-Lobby) sells the airplane which used the onboard starter. I'm pretty sure I purchased the onboard starter from them but they appear to only sell electric motors now. The airplane I used was their Telemaster.
http://www.hobbyexpress.com/senior_telemaster_laser_cut_kit_1039259_prd1.htm
It wasn't an easy airplane to build.
Another option is to get a large electric helicopter like a T-Rex 700 and optimize it for carrying capacity (low weight, long hi lift blades [not symmetrical], low rpm) and carry a bunch of batteries, you should be able to go 30Km. The problem arises depending upon how much time you spend hovering at the target before returning home - and how much payload you need to carry.
Kind of like this thing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jENWKgMPY
Interesting hybrid decacopter/plane from NASA http://sploid.gizmodo.com/watch-a-10-engine-drone-transform-from-a-helicopter-int-1712581472?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow