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Your old friend Radio Shack sells you out. — Parallax Forums

Your old friend Radio Shack sells you out.

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  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2015-03-26 05:50
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-03-26 05:52
    Fixed it as you were typing:)
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2015-03-26 09:22
    Not to be Polyannaish about this, but from the bankruptcy standpoint, the trustee has to at least float this as an idea, even if they know it'll get shot down. The trustee is legally required to pursue any and all methods of redress to the creditors.

    RS couldn't care less what they can pay back; it's out of their hands, and into the hands of the court. It's not up to them to come up with things to sell (nor are they allowed to), as whether they come up with $1 or $1 million, the end result is the same for them. They either emerge from BK restructured, or they are liquidated in a Chapter 7 and everyone goes home.

    Behind the scenes, it's the trustee -- not Radio Shack -- combing through assets such as patents, trademarks, royalties, customer lists, and anything else that could be sold. This is the job of the trustee, and besides the legal requirement to do so, he/she has an added incentive as this is how they are paid.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-03-26 09:54
    I'm sure you are right Gordon. I guess I'm just a bit taken aback when finding such personal information is even on the table as an asset to be disposed of. As opposed to, well, being disposed of if you see what I mean.

    The moral of the story is: Be careful who you give information to, you never know where that information will end up.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2015-03-26 10:54
    Information is an asset, and assets can be sold. So it's within legal rights that the BK courts pursue this. Radio Shack has a pretty clear privacy policy, though. It may ultimately prevent the sale of the list.

    The auction is over, and there's a new "owner," according to the article, but all this needs the approval of a judge. Given lawsuits, or threats of lawsuits, the judge won't likely be inclined to allow the sale without extra consideration. The story talks about AT&T lodging a complaint, claiming RS was merely a facilitator for AT&T. I wouldn't doubt AT&T already has an injunction written up and ready to go (given the chance that Sprint may be resold the list in the end), should a judge okay the final sale. By the time the legal challenges are over, the data will be fairly stale, and not worth a fraction of what they paid.

    A larger issue could come out of this. Apart from wireless sales that involved a written contract, or online sales, if Radio shack collected and retained customer credit card data beyond that prescribed by their acquiring banks, that data may be worthless as an asset anyway. It would be funny if the winner of the auction pays for data that ends up being unusable.

    Email addresses are already of very low value. Anyone can buy 13 million good names collected from hacked shopping sites for far less than what they'd pay to buy Radio Shack's. There's no brand loyalty from spam, so a list from RS or from a spammer has the same inherent value, even when you consider RS's list is targeted.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2015-03-26 11:25
    The real lesson here is in the policy. "We won't sell your stuff" is highly likely written with good intent.

    But that is only as good as the management team is. New owners aren't always going to honor things a failed team put out there.

    Over the years I have used a catchall email domain to track this by issuing emails in the form of company name at domain.

    I am seeing quite a lot of "we won't sell" agreements being worthless. They trade the info, they rent, which isn't a sale, new owners just use the info, and it happens way more than I thought it ever would.

    They also will perform services. They don't sell the onfo, rather access to it through them. Here is a message from our friends at....

    My response has been to provide really bad info, or just deny it and see whether or not they want to do the transaction
    Radio Shack always did, but they cried about it, or they sent a catalog to Joe Bloomstone over and over.

    My favorite answer to that "would you like to get catalogs and other offers?" is, "for home heating? Yes, of course."

    Now I really don't care. Giving out the varied emails means filtering it all, and I have few worries. If they see my browsing habits and want to suggest things, great. I am perfectly happy to continue to present as a confusing impression target which funds people who publish thing I value. Lies, errors and omissions are remarkably cheap currency.

    In this case, it is all about getting a list of AT&T customers, and you can bet your Smile they had a clause in the contract about that whole thing being exclusive to and property of AT&T too.

    But, that same slippery, "we won't sell" problem people have extends to AT&T, who made the same kind of deal with the same failed team...

    It will come down to who really wants it and who will do and pay what to prevent it all.

    Frankly, AT&T could just use that data right now. They tagged their customers from Tandy, and could just start messaging and making anti Sprint offers right now to marginalize the value of a customer list. Bet you legal and sales are cooking one up right now. Save 5 a month, but agree to these simple terms today kind of thing.

    ...all of which is why I nearly always pay the little guy a premium and select them every chance I get. Big corporate business is morbid.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2015-03-26 13:16
    Well, I just come back to the notion that I doubt RS is gleefully selling its customer list. Radio Shack's bankruptcy is debtor in possession, so they are making day-to-day decisions, but that doesn't mean they have a lot of choice in things, like the sale of various worthwhile assets. They're also selling (or had up for sale) the RadioShack brand name. Kinda hard to do business when someone else owns your name.

    No business that wants to stay in business wants to sell its private customer list. For one thing, once news of that gets out, the goodwill of the company tanks. For another, it's a legal swamp. I've read that about half the states have now filed an objection, citing Radio Shack's own privacy policy (a kind of contract with customers). Lawyers cost money, which is one thing they don't have.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-03-26 13:43
    Gordon,

    I'm still sure you are right. But this is telling:
    Lawyers cost money, which is one thing they don't have.
    They will spend more money on arguing the case for and against selling customers personal information than they would ever have got from selling such information.

    Better to just have deleted it immediately. Cheap, efficient, no muss no fuss.

    When the vultures move in it's not about doing the best thing only about what they can suck out of the corpse.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2015-03-26 14:02
    No business that wants to stay in business wants to sell its private customer list.

    That's true, until it isn't. No joke. Those tagged emails I've been using for 15 years or so tell a very different tale. The number of companies who have said that and then sold the data isn't trivial. One day, I should go dig through and try to find out, but it's at least 1, maybe 2 in 5 who will do it over time in some fashion.

    And it's again, sale, rental, service access, etc... lots of ways to use that list without actually selling it, and lots of ways to keep most people from picking up on it being done too. I get the tagged info and I know. The combination is the e-mail and a name variant I use. One or the other tends to make the deed stick out nice and easy.

    Reasons vary, but include:

    Need cash infusion

    Another business makes a successful pitch to leverage that list to mutual benefit (happens a lot)

    Change of management

    Change of ownership, bought out, acquired, merged

    Change in market place

    Once the core team has moved on or been otherwise displaced and marginalized, I really don't consider that the same company anymore.

    Radio Shack died. Game over. Somebody has the name, whatever, but it's just some relic now, all the old connotations are out the window. The best thing is to hope the team all found good places to continue working.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2015-03-26 14:33
    There's anoher problem with selling that info, and that is that it's NOT THEIR information to begin with.

    The information they're trying to sell is personal information, and the only LEGAL owner of that information is the person it identifies.
    To pass it on they require the owner's consent!
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2015-03-26 16:01
    Heater. wrote: »
    Better to just have deleted it immediately.

    Eeek! Not if they don't want to create even more legal woes. Once they started down the BK path, they had to preserve any potential asset. As mailing lists have in the past been sold through bankruptcy, I'm sure their company lawyers told them it was an asset they had to list.

    It appears RS's biggest creditor had the winning bid for the customer list, and there's reason to believe they bid on other things, too -- possibly the name itself, the online store, all that. If so, their likely intention is to run Radio Shack as a going concern, but as a smaller and more compact entity. The company may have been "sold" through a BK auction, but technically it's still Radio Shack, so the privacy policy is met in spirit, if not to the letter. We'll see.

    It isn't over until the fat lady sings, or Erco buys out the remaining stock of every Radio Shack store in Southern California.
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2015-03-26 16:18
    I'd forgotten all about R/S hounding me for an address or phone number every time I bought a resistor or capacitor. Good luck to anyone who should buy that list: I haven't lived in California or Arizona for a long time.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2015-03-26 16:56
    New York threatens action if RadioShack sells customer data
    "New York’s Attorney General says his office will take 'appropriate action' if personal data on millions of RadioShack customers is handed over as part of a just-concluded bankruptcy sale. ..."

    -Phil
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2015-03-26 17:06
    I *knew* there was a catch when I signed up for those free batteries back in the 1970s.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2015-03-26 17:28
    I used to give them an "853-xxxx" number. Until recently, in SoCal any 853+4 digits reached the current time.

    Being a Trekkie, I usually used "Chris Pike" as my name, but the jig was up when I once used their layaway program and had to go by my real name.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2015-03-26 18:45
    Gordon,
    There is a pile of parcels at the "dead letter" office containing what now are sure to be dead batteries, all addressed to Chris Pike ;)
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-03-28 01:25
    In a world where I have six video cameras watching me come and go from my front door, a smart phone that allows others to turn on the GPS and locate me, sites like Facebook and Twitter working as front ends and honey pots for lord-knows-who, traffic lights that take photos of my license plates, credit card companies that want me to allow them to track my present location by GPS...
    what does one expect?

    It is a snoopy world. We have gone so far beyond the Orwellian '1984' that discussion is silly. This thread too may be watched and sold.

    Yes, the bankruptcy court may have a right to sell off customer data. And what that converts into is 'more junk mail' in your e-mail. I already have had to fend off 300-400 items per day at times.

    What I really would like... is to never see another RS bankruptcy thread on the Parallax forums. And that too seems an impossiblity. It certainly would be nice to be able to block by key word in the subject line. (I know I am dreaming.)

    Heater, you are just rabble-rousing.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-03-28 02:08
    Loopy,
    Heater, you are just rabble-rousing.
    Yep.

    Rouse rabble, rouse, rouse. Rebel against the snooping, spying, treacherous infidels!

    Cue sound of crickets....

    Of course, when a thread title clearly mentions RS you could simply not click on it.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-03-28 05:30
    Trust me, for many months I refused to click on a RS thread of any sort hoping for them to die out, but another one pops up like perineal weeds.
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