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My Wife's Chickens, RFID, and my Sanity — Parallax Forums

My Wife's Chickens, RFID, and my Sanity

JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
edited 2015-03-21 09:27 in General Discussion
Last Friday, yes Friday the 13th, something got into my wife's chicken coop and killed 3 of her best hens. She has had those chickens for 3 years and it has been a tough week for her and the rooster who also is missing them apparently. Anyway I have been told I need to do something about it. We already have an automatic door we can control from within the house and that works great. We open the coop door in the morning to let them out and close it in the evening after they go in. But something (we think a Mink) is getting in there and ambushing them. Now every evening I have to go check the coop make sure it is okay and stand out there until all the chickens go in. What I would like to do is set things up so the chickens can open the door when they walk up the ramp to go in. About a year ago I ordered these RFID Poultry tags and a reader to do just that but to my disappointment the tags have to be right up against the reader for it to work. I need more like a 8" range between the reader and the tags.

Does anyone have thoughts on another reader configuration for these Poultry tags? The tags and reader I have operate at 125kHz. I'm pretty much stuck with these tags as that seems to be the standard tag used by the poultry industry.

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Comments

  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2015-03-20 09:06
    If the tags mount on the feet putting the rfid reader on the ramp might work. Another option would be to have a coil large enough for the chickens to pass through, but it would take some experimenting to find the required number of turns to tune it to 125KHz.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2015-03-20 09:15
    Condolences, I miss my Rhode Island Reds. That's a leg tag, not a wing tag? http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/736895/rfid-tags-used-to-report-which-birds-are-laying

    Per kwinn, have one or more (depends on range and ramp width) readers on the ramp.
  • JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
    edited 2015-03-20 09:49
    Yep its a leg tag. I'm pretty sure its not going to work if I put the reader under the ramp the tags have to all but touch the reader. I do have multiple readers and I have experimented with placement and if they are close to each other within 10" they seam to cancel each other out. I think the readers I have are for ID cards that need to be placed right on them. I can order a reader without the built-in antenna so the home made large coil under the ramp may be the way to go. I was hoping someone on the forum would know of place I could get a reader or an antenna for my current reader. I haven't made a coil since science class but I would give it a try if it would work.

    Thanks.
  • JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
    edited 2015-03-20 10:01
    erco wrote: »
    Condolences, I miss my Rhode Island Reds. That's a leg tag, not a wing tag? http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/736895/rfid-tags-used-to-report-which-birds-are-laying

    Yea I have seen that guys web site. He is tying RFID key fobs to his chickens with Velcro that's not going to fly with my wife. If I went that route I would tie a ZigBee key fob, that opens up a whole world of opportunities.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2015-03-20 10:53
    Seems like such a big tag would be intrusive on a chicken's leg. They get used to it?

    Bottom of page http://www.priority1design.com.au/rfid_coil_antenna.html has a square RFID coil 25 cm, like 10". How about the chickens sneaking through a loop like that as they walk up the ramp?
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2015-03-20 11:14
    As long as you don't have to identify individual members of the coop, you're free to use something less 'intelligent'. For example you could use a glorified dip meter on the ramp, with the inductive component shaped more like the coil of a metal detector. The tags could be a small LC circuit encapsulated in epoxy. Of course this solutions requires just a bit of development. But no rocket science is involved. :-)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-03-20 11:18
    That is a leg tag?

    Is this an ostrich farm?
  • JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
    edited 2015-03-20 11:34
    User Name wrote: »
    As long as you don't have to identify individual members of the coop, you're free to use something less 'intelligent'. For example you could use a glorified dip meter on the ramp, with the inductive component shaped more like the coil of a metal detector. The tags could be a small LC circuit encapsulated in epoxy. Of course this solutions requires just a bit of development. But no rocket science is involved. :-)

    I like what your saying but I have to use these 125kHZ tags (or other tags that look just like them) that is the only thing my wife is going to allow to be placed on her chickens. I had to work hard to get them approved she is not going to go for anything else. If you haven't been around chicken people you may not understand but my god I have to watch what I say (cant have "tone" in my voice when I talk to them) and do around those dang birds.

    Do you think I could build some type of detector for the 125kHz tags?? Like you said It doesn't necessarily have to read the serial number in the data stream but just excite and detect it if the chicken is within 8" of it or so. I would like to have the data but that is not a requirement for the door.

    Thanks!
  • JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
    edited 2015-03-20 11:40
    Heater. wrote: »
    That is a leg tag?

    Is this an ostrich farm?

    Smile. Yep red blooded chickens. Their legs get bigger than you think. The Rooster's legs are as big around as my thumb.
  • JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
    edited 2015-03-20 12:28
    erco wrote: »
    Seems like such a big tag would be intrusive on a chicken's leg. They get used to it?

    Bottom of page http://www.priority1design.com.au/rfid_coil_antenna.html has a square RFID coil 25 cm, like 10". How about the chickens sneaking through a loop like that as they walk up the ramp?

    This may just be what I'm looking for. I just sent these guys a message to see if they can make a recommendation on a configuration. I will buy the reader and coil together. Thanks!!
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-03-20 12:29
    Those certainly look right scale for leg tags. Living in Taiwan, everyone knows what a chicken leg and a chicken foot looks like. We eat the feet here. In fact, I believe the USA has an export market for chiken feet to Asia.


    If you do catch that mink, I sure could use the tail to make custom artist paint brushes... maybe the whole pelt. You don't have to kill him, just remove the tail. He might understand to stay away after that. This really is a project I have wanted to get started for years and seems to be justice but it is hard to find good hair for brushes.
  • JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
    edited 2015-03-20 12:36
    Loopy Byteloose wrote: »
    Those certainly look right scale for leg tags. Living in Taiwan, everyone knows what a chicken leg and a chicken foot looks like. We eat the feet here. In fact, I believe the USA has an export market for chiken feet to Asia.


    If you do catch that mink, I sure could use the tail to make custom artist paint brushes... maybe the whole pelt. You don't have to kill him, just remove the tail. He might understand to stay away after that. This really is a project I have wanted to get started for years and seems to be justice but it is hard to find good hair for brushes.

    Eat the feet? That just makes me smile. I would have never thought to do that. If I get him tail is yours, my wife wants the rest of him!!
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2015-03-20 12:54
    JohnR2010 wrote: »
    Eat the feet? That just makes me smile. I would have never thought to do that. If I get him tail is yours, my wife wants the rest of him!!

    Well, if you do send me the tail, I will see if I can sneak some smoked duck tongues to you as repayment. They are considered a delacasy here. Chicken's feet are a snack food, like potato chips. So are sliced pig's ears. Not bad actually. Some people eat the chicken head as well. I give them to my dog with the neck still attached..
  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,720
    edited 2015-03-20 17:40
    If you decide to design a antenna this book on RFID from Elektor seems to be quite good:

    RFID Book:
    http://www.elektor.com/rfid

    Overview:
    https://www.elektor.com/Uploads/2013/6/Preview-RFID-book.pdf

    RFID Antenna Design
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    73
    3.1
    Theoretical Fundamentals
    ...............................
    73
    3.1.1
    Antenna as Resonant Circuit
    ........................
    73
    3.1.2
    Transformer Model
    ...............................
    77
    3.1.3
    The Biot-Savart Law
    ..............................
    79
    3.1.4
    Optimal Antenna Size
    .............................
    80
    3.2
    Reader Antennas
    .....................................
    83
    3.2.1
    Antenna Quality
    .................................
    83
    3.2.1.1
    Data Transmission Bandwidth
    .................
    83
    3.2.1.2
    Stability Against Detuning
    ...................
    86
    3.2.2
    Electrically Conductive Surfaces in the Vicinity
    of the Antenna
    ...................................
    89
    3.2.2.1
    Ferrites
    ................................
    90
    3.2.3
    Balanced and Unbalanced Antennas
    ...................
    92
    3.2.3.1
    Balanced Antenna
    .........................
    93
    3.2.3.2
    Unbalanced Antenna

    Etc...

    By the way did you try a sign? "NO MINK'S ALLOWED" LOL
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2015-03-20 17:47
    What about video recognition? I will see if I can dig up the link where someone did this for his dog and cat door. If the critter did not meet the requirements the door did not open.
  • JohnR2010JohnR2010 Posts: 431
    edited 2015-03-21 07:23
    Loopy Byteloose wrote: »
    Well, if you do send me the tail, I will see if I can sneak some smoked duck tongues to you as repayment. They are considered a delacasy here. Chicken's feet are a snack food, like potato chips. So are sliced pig's ears. Not bad actually. Some people eat the chicken head as well. I give them to my dog with the neck still attached..

    Roasted duck tongues, yea sure why not I would give it a try.
  • rosco_pcrosco_pc Posts: 464
    edited 2015-03-21 07:50
    This might help:
    http://www.nermal.org/projects/catalog/adding-an-external-antenna
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,241
    edited 2015-03-21 09:27
    I've wondered how I might incorporate RFID into my coop controller. I'll be watching your progress.

    Doc
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