That's the way it was done last time. It wasn't simple -- or cheap.
Pass "New Thread" variables from old forum to new forum "form". Then pass "reply thread" variables from old forum to new forum "form". First create the thread, then add all the replies. Do this recursively until the old forum is copied.
1. Users and passwords need to be migrated across, and any other user info that is easy.
2. Sub-forum structure needs to be created.
Would be nice
3. Would it be possible to insert all the forum thread headings, including the OP, into each sub-forum, before it goes live. Embed a link into the top of the first post's text to link to the old forums thread, with some form of wording such as "forum migration dd/mm/2015 - link to old forum". It would be nice to keep the original posts wording (less pics and links if necessary).
This would permit old threads to continue on the new forum, and the old forum could then be set read-only.
At least by doing this we would keep the old post titles with links, so that any new searches would include those threads.
Perhaps some of us here might be able to do the extract for Parallax and feed into the new forum database before it goes live (maybe one sub-forum at a time) ???
Yep, gotcha on all items Cluso99- we're thinking along the same lines. We expect to migrate user accounts and expect to keep old forum threads in tact. All of the discussions that happen on this thread are already being talked about inside Parallax.
Pass "New Thread" variables from old forum to new forum "form". Then pass "reply thread" variables from old forum to new forum "form". First create the thread, then add all the replies. Do this recursively until the old forum is copied.
Bruce, I'm the one who scripted the last migration, so I already know what's involved. And you're right: that's the way it's done. But the devil is the the details of spidering the old forum, parsing the old HTML, logging into the new forum as an admin, keeping track of cookies, submitting the old posts in ways that look like new posts to the new forum, appending attachments, including those attachments inline where necessary, keeping track of links and separating internal links from external ones, making sure that stuff that's in boldface or italics or a special color or size stays that way, formatting tables and lists using the new formatting strictures, etc. etc.
Would it be easy to write a program to add to the existing database, for the first post in each thread, a line at the top as follows...
"forum migration dd/mm/2015 - old forum thread link xxxxx" where xxxxx is a link to that first post in the existing (to become old) thread.
This would mean that any migration done that failed to bring any data/picture/link/format properly, would at least contain a link in the first post (for each thread) to the old/replaced forum database. Thus, we would maintain a link to the past that would be consistent and easily found.
The phpBB looks pretty good. Maybe that conversion software referenced might do a reasonable migration job.
The script is actually a collection of over 200 PHP files; some over 100k. The challenge in troubleshooting the migration is understanding the underlying design. That design is a moving target beginning in the version just above where the we are now. In version 5.x, there is a major reconfiguration in the data. The CMS support was removed and then returned in version 5.1.
Even if the scripts run with no obvious error, any one of the thousands of operations that happen during the upgrade could still be incorrect and alter data in unexpected ways. Several hundred steps later, we would find a problem but, because we do not have detailed insight into the design, we cannot tell which of the intervening steps may have introduced the error.
I want to be sure that we are all talking about the same process with regard to read-only vs. read/write threads. The existing site would continue as it is now until we launch a new site. At that point, I would think that we would want all new posting to occur on the new site. This site would be placed in a read-only mode to prevent further posting to what would be the old site.
I also want to note that there may be some concerns about having to abandon active threads on the old site (actually this site) at the time of the cut-over. We should definitely discuss our options once we have selected the replacement software for this site.
We actually looked at that service early on in the upgrade process. The concern we have is that cms2cms does not support the migration of attachments within posts. Since attachments represent nearly 60% of the forum data, this is a non-starter.
Will add my 2 cents about links: do not break them! That will be a severe steps backwards for at least 6 months as Google updates all of their cached results.
Old forums: forums.parallax.com
New forums: forum.parallax.com
I agree that we should preserve the site's host name so that the links both within the forums site and links from the outside will continue to work correctly. In fact, it is likely that we will move the web site and database to a pair of virtual servers and let them live a long and fruitful life.
We actually looked at that service early on in the upgrade process. The concern we have is that cms2cms does not support the migration of attachments within posts. Since attachments represent nearly 60% of the forum data, this is a non-starter.
Every post in this forum has a url, and given the links are not going to break, then it may be enough to be able to see (via the link) the originating post - ie the attachments may not have to copy over, if that is proving a show-stopper.
How making the old forum searchable and read-only *AND* replacing the "+Reply to Thread" button with a "Migrate+Reply to Thread" button. Use the new button and the thread would be moved from the old forum to the new forum "on demand". Hopefully, the migration of a single thread itself could be done quickly without ruining the used experience.
This means you do not have to migrate the entire data base and you automatically cull out BUNCHES of old threads that are no longer relevant. Thread owners or other interested parties could migrate their own favorite threads (GCC/P2/Tachyon/PropForth/etc.) early on in the process. Other threads of interest could be migrated by individuals as they find them useful or choose to comment on them. Some threads would never migrate because they are old/outdated/irrelevant/etc.
The old forums would still be around using the two different names - forums versus forum
I wouldn't think it wouldn't be too hard to come up with some PHP code to do this, rename the button in the old forum and hook the new code to it.
The first few days might be a little brutal on the server but I imagine migrations would slow rather quickly and just new update traffic would be the norm after a few days.
Maybe. Making the current lot of threads read-only is going to be an issue, I think. Frankly, I'd rather see things stay the way they are, since they're not all that bad ...
[size=+1]I second that in a big way![/size] After all, we are programmers ... correct? It's forced me to use the BB codes ... and that's not [size=+1]so bad[/size].
I rely heavily on searching the old post's ... as a way to avoid annoying forum 'helpers'. Since the alternative would be posting the same old tired content again and again. An exploring the archives is really quite informative ... who's going what direction ... which users are skilled at 'xyz'.
A 'fresh' start, could go awry as well ... forcing an additional migration in the future (more wasted hours) ... and a potential abandonment of all that we (forum users) hold dear, due to budgets concerns that are out of everyone's hands?
Phil speaks for me on this issue ... don't invest any further hours ... if it isn't broke, don't fix it. And at present, it does seem to allow us to 'voice' our opinions, programs, photos, movies and concerns.
Really depends on the device. Nevertheless, the God of the Internet says the forum is not mobile friendly, and what they say is what counts. Here's Google's report on the first page of this thread:
* Text too small to read
* Mobile viewport not set
* Links too close together
To me that is not really true, in fact all those "mobile" versions of sites are completely useless on mobile devices, so I set my browser to show a 'desktop' browser, not a mobile one. Because mobile versions cannot be zooomed (is that what they call 'mobile viewport'? I'm not familiar with that term) and that makes the fonts unreadable to me (I'm not twenty anymore, that was long ago). So all the 'small' and 'close' issues are non-issues because I can (and I do) zoom to make it comfortable. Zoomable is absolutely essential for sites read by mobile devices. Mobile browsers can auto-zoom so that if you e.g. tap on a column of text that column zooms to the whole screen. But that doesn't work with 'mobile' versions of sites. Instead you end up with unreadable fonts (on all of them) and a fixed view. For me, "mobile" simply means "useless on mobile".
The other issue (which I didn't quote) was about bandwidth - well, I don't use data plans, I either use wi-fi or nothing - but even then, the Parallax forum isn't cluttered with flash or big images so I don't have any load issues even on slow networks (like e.g. airport wi-fi zones).
Most news sites, for example, are ten times slower. Full of useless noise.
I've given the IT crew clearance to configure and launch a new forum tool. I really like the features and look of the phpBB system, too. I can't identify a requirement that's not on their list.
Hey, I like that! I like phpBB much better than VB. IIRC unlike VB phpBB also supports user configurable time formats (to avoid that am/pm issue for the rest of us).
To me that is not really true, in fact all those "mobile" versions of sites are completely useless on mobile devices, so I set my browser to show a 'desktop' browser, not a mobile one. Because mobile versions cannot be zooomed (is that what they call 'mobile viewport'?
In a responsive theme, there is only one "version" of the site. It's simply formatted differently via CSS. There are some excellent responsive phpBB themes that present the same info, but in a more logical manner for a smaller screen.
The viewport does not need to be locked, and increasingly, the standard is that it is not. In fact, for many responsive sites the minimum scale only is set at 1.0, which means zooming is allowed. Why don't you try Parallax's learn site, which uses a responsive theme off Drupal.
The viewport does not need to be locked, and increasingly, the standard is that it is not. In fact, for many responsive sites the minimum scale only is set at 1.0, which means zooming is allowed. Why don't you try Parallax's learn site, which uses a responsive theme off Drupal.
That site looks good, also on my smallest phone screen.
There are a lot of responsive sites out there where you really wish they had not bothered. A lot people complain about it.
Even on my old Galaxy S this forum works quite well enough with its little screen. I'm posting from it now. Sometime there is an issue when sombody posts a code block with crazy long lines but a responsive page won't help there much.
With the upcoming change of forums, I'd like to know if there is a method to download complete threads. Not that I don't have confidence, but been there, experienced such a change at work along with the "OOPS / Sorry / It's your fault for not backing up what you felt was important."
I can print to pdf each page, but for some of the longer threads, that's a slow messy process, and is problematic with enclosures.
I'm not sure what you're arguing. Google ranks sites based on perceived value -- those with working links and accessibility on all platforms are deemed to have higher perceived value. So why would you be against just giving Google what it wants, which is also what users want? Or maybe I'm missing what you're trying to say.
I am not arguing so much as mentioning the fact of Google dependency might at some point be too costly. My knowledge of what Google does for Parallax and at what cost is nil. And I may be very naive, but wary.
I work on a general opinion is that the right advertising can be a great blessing to any enterpirse. (Such as Parallax's purchase of the back page of Nuts and Volts for many years). But the wrong advertising buys can bleed you dry in a New York minute (I am still wondering why Radio Shack purchased a Super Bowl ad. I guess it was a Hail Mary strategy.)
For the most part, I just wince with the idea of changes in the Forum. They are fraught with tough choices and the potential for unpleasant surprises.
I survived in a business world where a Yellow Pages ad was likely to be the best deal around. Those days are for the most part gone.
With the upcoming change of forums, I'd like to know if there is a method to download complete threads. Not that I don't have confidence, but been there, experienced such a change at work along with the "OOPS / Sorry / It's your fault for not backing up what you felt was important."
I can print to pdf each page, but for some of the longer threads, that's a slow messy process, and is problematic with enclosures.
Thanks
Tom
Actually, there may be!
Heater. came up with parallax-scrape a while back and put it out on his Github repository. It's a little Node program that worked quite well at the time to generate a text file with everything from a thread. The only reason I say "worked" is the forums upgrade/downgrade may have changed some of the HTML markers it uses to find things. It's worth a try on some of your favorite big threads.
I survived in a business world where a Yellow Pages ad was likely to be the best deal around. Those days are for the most part gone.
Google (and any other search engine) is happy to take your money if you want to run an ad. But there's no business sense in turning away free traffic. It would be like a bricks-and-mortar store keeping their front door locked to walk-by customers. Sure, it can be done, but would you want to? Some of those customers may end up buying something. You only hurt yourself with these kinds of policies, same with not following accepted best practices in the world of the modern Web. This version of vBulletin does not support the latest best practices.
What surprises me, I suppose, is the number of Parallax customers that complain about the company's slow adoption of new ideas, like open source or a mainstream language like C, yet cry when the change actually comes. They want all the benefits of keeping up with trends and standards, but with no inconvenience to themselves.
I won't miss the ability to post to years-old threads. Old stickies and still-popular older threads could be manually moved in a day by an intern. The rest are just fine as read-only. I don't see the issue. No one loses anything except the ability to bump an ancient thread they probably shouldn't anyway.
I was recently looking for a forum for my website and was surprised at how few different ones are out there. Vanilla Forums seems to be a newer product. My host
is suppose to support it so I thought I would try the free open source version.
The cloud version is hassle free but the monthly rates are beyond me.
I just tried the version I had on my Mac against the current forum and it worked fine. I generated a new text file of a thread I had saved before the up/downgrade and they were identical until the new postings started.
I guess I should try the latest Github version just to see if it has any changes.
It's a handy tool for saving long threads or making offline readable versions.
Edit: Updated update. I just tried the code from the github repo with the latest version of node (v0.12.0) and it works like a champ! Thanks, Heater. !
Heater. came up with parallax-scrape a while back..
Wait a minute, parallax-scrape was created with a single purpose in mind. I wanted to get all the text of an old thread and all the attachments within it.
It is not a general purpose tool for forum migration or whatever.
I guess it still works on the current forum so if anyone has stashed goodies away on the forum that they don't have locally any more then parallax-scrape may still have value.
Comments
Pass "New Thread" variables from old forum to new forum "form". Then pass "reply thread" variables from old forum to new forum "form". First create the thread, then add all the replies. Do this recursively until the old forum is copied.
Requirements
1. Users and passwords need to be migrated across, and any other user info that is easy.
2. Sub-forum structure needs to be created.
Would be nice
3. Would it be possible to insert all the forum thread headings, including the OP, into each sub-forum, before it goes live. Embed a link into the top of the first post's text to link to the old forums thread, with some form of wording such as "forum migration dd/mm/2015 - link to old forum". It would be nice to keep the original posts wording (less pics and links if necessary).
This would permit old threads to continue on the new forum, and the old forum could then be set read-only.
At least by doing this we would keep the old post titles with links, so that any new searches would include those threads.
Perhaps some of us here might be able to do the extract for Parallax and feed into the new forum database before it goes live (maybe one sub-forum at a time) ???
Ken Gracey
As I said, it's not a simple matter.
-Phil
Yea, I over-simplified it a bit with two sentences
CORRECTION: Three sentences.... My bad
Would it be easy to write a program to add to the existing database, for the first post in each thread, a line at the top as follows...
"forum migration dd/mm/2015 - old forum thread link xxxxx" where xxxxx is a link to that first post in the existing (to become old) thread.
This would mean that any migration done that failed to bring any data/picture/link/format properly, would at least contain a link in the first post (for each thread) to the old/replaced forum database. Thus, we would maintain a link to the past that would be consistent and easily found.
The phpBB looks pretty good. Maybe that conversion software referenced might do a reasonable migration job.
Even if the scripts run with no obvious error, any one of the thousands of operations that happen during the upgrade could still be incorrect and alter data in unexpected ways. Several hundred steps later, we would find a problem but, because we do not have detailed insight into the design, we cannot tell which of the intervening steps may have introduced the error.
https://www.cms2cms.com/cms/supported-cms/vbulletin-to-phpbb-migration/
All that spidering must be crazy compared to just querying the data out of the old database and writing it to the new one.
I want to be sure that we are all talking about the same process with regard to read-only vs. read/write threads. The existing site would continue as it is now until we launch a new site. At that point, I would think that we would want all new posting to occur on the new site. This site would be placed in a read-only mode to prevent further posting to what would be the old site.
I also want to note that there may be some concerns about having to abandon active threads on the old site (actually this site) at the time of the cut-over. We should definitely discuss our options once we have selected the replacement software for this site.
We actually looked at that service early on in the upgrade process. The concern we have is that cms2cms does not support the migration of attachments within posts. Since attachments represent nearly 60% of the forum data, this is a non-starter.
I agree that we should preserve the site's host name so that the links both within the forums site and links from the outside will continue to work correctly. In fact, it is likely that we will move the web site and database to a pair of virtual servers and let them live a long and fruitful life.
Every post in this forum has a url, and given the links are not going to break, then it may be enough to be able to see (via the link) the originating post - ie the attachments may not have to copy over, if that is proving a show-stopper.
This means you do not have to migrate the entire data base and you automatically cull out BUNCHES of old threads that are no longer relevant. Thread owners or other interested parties could migrate their own favorite threads (GCC/P2/Tachyon/PropForth/etc.) early on in the process. Other threads of interest could be migrated by individuals as they find them useful or choose to comment on them. Some threads would never migrate because they are old/outdated/irrelevant/etc.
The old forums would still be around using the two different names - forums versus forum
I wouldn't think it wouldn't be too hard to come up with some PHP code to do this, rename the button in the old forum and hook the new code to it.
The first few days might be a little brutal on the server but I imagine migrations would slow rather quickly and just new update traffic would be the norm after a few days.
A thread for each product is a really good idea.
A few people may grumble about the current state of the forums but it's really not that bad.
If you're going to make changes then make them and I'm sure all will be well. That's why you're paid the big bucks haha.
Sandy
[size=+1]I second that in a big way![/size] After all, we are programmers ... correct? It's forced me to use the BB codes ... and that's not [size=+1]so bad[/size].
I rely heavily on searching the old post's ... as a way to avoid annoying forum 'helpers'. Since the alternative would be posting the same old tired content again and again. An exploring the archives is really quite informative ... who's going what direction ... which users are skilled at 'xyz'.
A 'fresh' start, could go awry as well ... forcing an additional migration in the future (more wasted hours) ... and a potential abandonment of all that we (forum users) hold dear, due to budgets concerns that are out of everyone's hands?
Phil speaks for me on this issue ... don't invest any further hours ... if it isn't broke, don't fix it. And at present, it does seem to allow us to 'voice' our opinions, programs, photos, movies and concerns.
... Tim
The other issue (which I didn't quote) was about bandwidth - well, I don't use data plans, I either use wi-fi or nothing - but even then, the Parallax forum isn't cluttered with flash or big images so I don't have any load issues even on slow networks (like e.g. airport wi-fi zones).
Most news sites, for example, are ten times slower. Full of useless noise.
Hey, I like that! I like phpBB much better than VB. IIRC unlike VB phpBB also supports user configurable time formats (to avoid that am/pm issue for the rest of us).
-Tor
In a responsive theme, there is only one "version" of the site. It's simply formatted differently via CSS. There are some excellent responsive phpBB themes that present the same info, but in a more logical manner for a smaller screen.
The viewport does not need to be locked, and increasingly, the standard is that it is not. In fact, for many responsive sites the minimum scale only is set at 1.0, which means zooming is allowed. Why don't you try Parallax's learn site, which uses a responsive theme off Drupal.
-Tor
Even on my old Galaxy S this forum works quite well enough with its little screen. I'm posting from it now. Sometime there is an issue when sombody posts a code block with crazy long lines but a responsive page won't help there much.
I can print to pdf each page, but for some of the longer threads, that's a slow messy process, and is problematic with enclosures.
Thanks
Tom
I am not arguing so much as mentioning the fact of Google dependency might at some point be too costly. My knowledge of what Google does for Parallax and at what cost is nil. And I may be very naive, but wary.
I work on a general opinion is that the right advertising can be a great blessing to any enterpirse. (Such as Parallax's purchase of the back page of Nuts and Volts for many years). But the wrong advertising buys can bleed you dry in a New York minute (I am still wondering why Radio Shack purchased a Super Bowl ad. I guess it was a Hail Mary strategy.)
For the most part, I just wince with the idea of changes in the Forum. They are fraught with tough choices and the potential for unpleasant surprises.
I survived in a business world where a Yellow Pages ad was likely to be the best deal around. Those days are for the most part gone.
Actually, there may be!
Heater. came up with parallax-scrape a while back and put it out on his Github repository. It's a little Node program that worked quite well at the time to generate a text file with everything from a thread. The only reason I say "worked" is the forums upgrade/downgrade may have changed some of the HTML markers it uses to find things. It's worth a try on some of your favorite big threads.
I'm sure he'll be glad to see it resurrected!!
Google (and any other search engine) is happy to take your money if you want to run an ad. But there's no business sense in turning away free traffic. It would be like a bricks-and-mortar store keeping their front door locked to walk-by customers. Sure, it can be done, but would you want to? Some of those customers may end up buying something. You only hurt yourself with these kinds of policies, same with not following accepted best practices in the world of the modern Web. This version of vBulletin does not support the latest best practices.
What surprises me, I suppose, is the number of Parallax customers that complain about the company's slow adoption of new ideas, like open source or a mainstream language like C, yet cry when the change actually comes. They want all the benefits of keeping up with trends and standards, but with no inconvenience to themselves.
I won't miss the ability to post to years-old threads. Old stickies and still-popular older threads could be manually moved in a day by an intern. The rest are just fine as read-only. I don't see the issue. No one loses anything except the ability to bump an ancient thread they probably shouldn't anyway.
No, I bet it REALLY doesn't at all!
is suppose to support it so I thought I would try the free open source version.
The cloud version is hassle free but the monthly rates are beyond me.
http://vanillaforums.org/
I just tried the version I had on my Mac against the current forum and it worked fine. I generated a new text file of a thread I had saved before the up/downgrade and they were identical until the new postings started.
I guess I should try the latest Github version just to see if it has any changes.
It's a handy tool for saving long threads or making offline readable versions.
Edit: Updated update. I just tried the code from the github repo with the latest version of node (v0.12.0) and it works like a champ! Thanks, Heater. !
It is not a general purpose tool for forum migration or whatever.
I guess it still works on the current forum so if anyone has stashed goodies away on the forum that they don't have locally any more then parallax-scrape may still have value.