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What do you think of the Make movement? - Page 2 — Parallax Forums

What do you think of the Make movement?

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  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2015-02-21 09:05
    Heater. wrote: »
    ...
    LEGO. What a shameful thing that has become. Buy a box of bits to make whatever is on the picture on the box. Done. Whatever happened to the idea of "here is a bucket of bricks, build yourself a house or a skyscraper or a dinosaur or a time machine"?....

    I guess nothing requires the kids must build what's pictured on the box. But, one of the strangest things I've ever seen are kids who build what's pictured on the box, then their parents proudly place the result on a shelf, where it never gets taken down, never gets taken apart, and never gets made into something else.

    Heater. wrote: »
    ...

    Meccano. Is that still available anywhere? I'd be using it still today if it were. I notice recently that someone raised a pile of money on kickstarter to produce a meccano like thing, but modern aluminium extrusions with sets of joining plates and screws. Obviously struck a chord with a lot of people. ....

    I'm a mentor to some Vex teams. The parts are somewhat expensive, but I'm impressed by what the kids come up with.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVzuXcMy3bU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sdwSBEMJrI


    On my to-do list is how to integrate the Propeller into these things so we're not limited by the Cortex they sell.

    I'm also wondering when somebody is going to come up with the quadcopter version of these sorts of competitions.... Parallax?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-02-21 09:27
    You are right, nothing requires kids to build what is on the picture on the box. Us nippers used to crack open airfix kits and glue the parts from different boxes into weird car/boat/plane/spaceship/timemachine mutant creations. However the point is a lego box contains parts customized for that picture on the box. Like the parts in an airfic plane. It's not a blank canvas of bricks that require and encourage your imagination to become anything meaningful.

    Those proud parents are just responding to what the picture on the box is telling them. Like the Airfix kit, if you assembled the plane in the picture that was great. If you mangled parts form different boxes into an unrecognizable time machine that was not understood at all...

    Vex looks very cool. What on Earth is it. I have never seen it in any toy department.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2015-02-21 10:12
    Heater. wrote: »
    ...
    Vex looks very cool. What on Earth is it. I have never seen it in any toy department.

    I wouldn't say it's a toy. The quality of the parts is somewhere between industrial grade and a toy, though. It's meant to be an educational thing. There are about 10,000 teams from around the world that do the metal version. It's meant for middle school and high school kids and some college kids do it, too. There are teams in the UK, New Zealand, USA, China, Mexico, you name it.

    Here's a match played in New Zealand some time ago. The robots get more complex as the season goes on. In this year's game, the kids build those yellow towers and score the cubes on posts, etc. The first 15 seconds of a 2 minute match are run autonomously, then the rest of the match is played with driver control via joysticks.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClGWg43TtCI
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-02-21 10:21
    Vex does sound great and those competitions look like fun. It's not Meccano though. We had Meccano, I don't know, since shortly after learning to walk. Pulleys, gears, motors the works. I guess it was not so expensive.
  • TonyDTonyD Posts: 210
    edited 2015-02-23 07:06
    Heater. wrote: »
    Cynical view:

    Isn't Make a for profit corporation? There is the Make Magazine. There are the Maker Faires. Then there are the Maker Spaces.
    ...
    Anyone know more?

    Maker space (or Makerspace) is a generic term and is definitely part of the maker and hacker movement.

    "Make" and "Maker Faire" are part of the O'Reilly publishing empire and are trade marked by them. I believe that they own the "www.makerspace.com" website, so this may be where some confusion is caused.

    I help run our local hack space in Newcastle (UK) and we are called "Maker Space" and have been for almost 4-years and we have no connection what so ever with Make or O'Rielly. We've been registered as a UK Limited company "Maker Space Ltd" for just as long.

    I hope this helps answer some questions.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-02-23 07:19
    TonyD,

    Thanks for the low down on that. It all sounds very cool.
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2015-02-23 07:55
    Heater. wrote: »
    Cynical view:

    As far as I can tell a bunch of makers cannot just have a "Maker Faire" of their own because the term is a trade mark. Similarly you can't just set up a Maker Space of your own. You have to be some how affiliated to this Make pyramid scheme.

    Firstly "Faire" isn't a modern English word so who would want to copy a spelling error? You can have an Event, a Fair, a Festival, a Camp, whatever.
    Secondly of course you can set up a maker space. Many have: http://www.makerspace.org.uk/about/
  • abecedarianabecedarian Posts: 312
    edited 2015-02-24 02:02
    Mark_T wrote: »
    Firstly "Faire" isn't a modern English word so who would want to copy a spelling error? You can have an Event, a Fair, a Festival, a Camp, whatever.
    Secondly of course you can set up a maker space. Many have: http://www.makerspace.org.uk/about/
    What is the "modern" English word for "taco", "burrito"...?
    Considering English borrows a lot from other languages...
    ... French, "faire" is essentially "to do or make"... your issue with using words that suggest makers make is what now?

    Heaven forbid you ever get some schnitzel not from a wiener.
  • ZootZoot Posts: 2,227
    edited 2015-02-24 08:08
    Given that some of these posts start with something like -- "I don't really know anything about this, but...", I feel compelled to at least clarify a few things about Maker Faires, Make, makerspaces, etc.

    Disclosure: I am a -- proud -- member of our local Mini Maker Faire board of directors. Parallax has been supportive. Our own forum member Mike Westerfield, who has been working on the wireless Prop. programming project, is a Maker participant at our Faire, has published books with Make Media (O'Reilly is the parent company) and generously volunteered his time in actually "making" all our custom badges for last year's event. Certainly, alienating such fine folks with tossed off opinions can't be productive.

    - "making", "makers", "makerspaces", etc. are just words. I often hear "hackerspace" and "makerspace" used interchangeably. Whether anyone likes it or not, "hacker" or "hacking" has certain negative connotations; "making" seems to have better clarity as to actual activity. I'm from an era where "hacking" meant, "hacking away at code to write an application", but what are you gonna do? Tell people they can't use or interpret a word a certain way? In that vein also, every maker/hacker space is different. Some -- like Quelab, where I'm a member -- are strictly volunteer-based; member fees go to supplies and rent. Other spaces are "for profit" in that owners -- probably folks like some of you -- invest in equipment and space and then charge membership fees to use the space.

    - "Make:" is the magazine imprint founded by Dale Doherty with O'Reilly as the parent company. "MakerShed" is their online store, that not coincidentally, often supplies parts/kits related to projects in the mag/website.

    - "Maker Faire" is Make Media's trademark (and pseudo-franchise) for physical events where "makers", "hackers", inventors, hobbyists, Girl Scouts, tinkerers, entrepreneurs, and often engineers from big companies like Intel, come and demonstrate and discuss their projects. Some projects are in progress, some are very finished and polished, some are in between. The emphasis is always on demonstration, interactivity, hands-on for the visitors, and so forth. There is NO COST to the Makers presenting, unless they are selling product. If they want to sell, each Faire usually takes a small percentage or, in our case, a modest one-time fee regardless of sales volume. Sellers must comply with local law, i.e., they have to be a business, pay taxes.

    The result is that the Faire is NOT a trade show -- products aren't being hawked, and we support the Makers with great venues, aggressive promotion -- billboards, TV, radio, online -- to get folks to see their stuff. We provide security for the projects. We handle all the legal issues revolving around liability, EMT services, legal numbers of toilets/port-a-lets, and on and on. We line up sponsors to pay for it all. We give away tickets to Title 1 schools (economically disadvantaged), to under-served populations, etc.

    - whose "we" in the examples above? Volunteers. It's folks just like everyone at these forums that we try to support -- and then teach the skills many of us take for granted to the visitors. We teach how to solder. How to use a sewing machine. How to silkscreen. How to make things out of 3/4" PVC. How to safely operate a trebuchet with 500lbs of steel weight. 3-D printing. Robots -- yes, Scribblers -- that draw on paper. I've said it elsewhere on these very forums: in many communities in N.A. the only place to do stuff like this is at Maker Faires or similar events and at local maker/hacker spaces. It's fine to say that "back in the day, I watched my grandfather". That's just not a reality in the 21st century.

    - Maker Faire license agreements require returning a portion of gate sales to Make Media (aka Maker Faire Central). The rest we plow back into the event itself. Take that aspect as you will, but Maker Faire Central does provide us with a lot more than a recognized brand -- they provide endless and ongoing support in every aspect of running an event. They provide invaluable follow-up. They connect producers of local events all over the world with each other to trade ideas. The branding itself can be useful for when we need to explain a Maker Faire, or just point to the magazine and say "it's two days of stuff like the projects in that issue." While "movement" is probably over-reaching, for myself, it's certainly been nice the last six or eight years: used to be people thought I was mad when I described my projects. Now, if I say I'm a "maker", they go: "Cool. Do you do robots, or tesla coils, or 3-D printing or e-textiles or what?".

    - One could certainly argue the pros and cons of partnering with large media enterprises like O'Reilly, or for that matter, large corporate sponsors in general. The flip side is, making a living is not a bad thing either. We have seen where makers debut half-finished projects at Maker Faires, refine those projects, demo them again, and then launch really successful projects rather than working nights at the 7-11. There are makers/hackers who basically go "on tour" at event after event, showing really polished, high-funded projects. I mean, that's their job. Don't tell me you're not jealous :)

    - The flip side is we aggressively thank (i.e. promote) our sponsors -- many of whom are medium- to small-sized businesses (Parallax and SparkFun, for example), or locally-owned providers (who may donate or discount things like staging, audio equipment, printing, the venue itself). We encourage our participants (Makers and event visitors) to patronize those businesses.

    So... if you are really enthusiastic about passing on these skills to new users, about showing off all the cool stuff you've built that most folks will never see in person, why not volunteer? Get involved in a local maker/hacker space (non-franchised, non-profit spaces always need your help and skills). Volunteer for a robotics team with your local Girl Scout council (the girls are viciously underserved). Start or get involved in a local Mini Maker Faire and get all your pals to show their projects. Surely that's better than debating whether or not it's a "movement", or how you wish the word "hacker" was used "properly".
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2015-02-24 08:33
    Well said, Zoot, thanks for all that info and all that you do.
  • dgatelydgately Posts: 1,630
    edited 2015-02-24 12:04
    Yes, thanks Zoot!

    I've attended what's likely the mother-of-all Maker Faires at San Mateo Fairgrounds, here in Northern California for several years and it's a fantastic 'fair'... Sure there are a lot of commercial entities at the fair, but there is a huge number of folks (from little kids to elderly) just displaying their unique projects. There are tons of educational & scientific organizations with interesting presentations and 'experts' on-hand to answer questions and discuss many topics. Some of the experts may be just the "fairly-informed" but their enthusiasm and excitement for making is invigorating for attendees that are sitting on the fence about trying their hand in a project.

    Last year, I brought a friend interested in model trains to the fair, and we saw a fantastic display of real steam-powered model trains. I mean real, miniature steam engines that ran just like the ones that helped build our nation! He left the fair with a ton of enthusiasm for that craftwork and a plan for his own model train project.

    These fairs bring together people that are interested in learning more about science & creative endeavors with folks that are truly involved and happy to present theirs. Will every 10 year-old who attends the fair end up with a career in science or engineering or any other of the varied disciplines on display? Most likely not, but even they can walk away with a greater understanding and appreciation for the world of those who make "things".

    The Make movement seems to cover a fairly balanced blend of ideas from amusing & entertaining displays to in-depth technology & thinking about science and craftsmanship. Before the Maker Faire in the Bay Area, I don't think there were too many how-to type events that stirred 20-30K attendees. I'm sure that much exposure has had an effect, even in the region of Silicon Valley, where technology & engineering are perhaps the largest provider of careers and cash-flow. And, if the fairs boost interest here, they are likely to boost interest anywhere. (Yeah, I know there are other regions in the world where tech & engineering shine as well, but excuse me for using mine as the example here).

    In all, I'm a Make movement advocate... I think it's short-sighted to dismiss the value of a movement that stirs the kind of interest that I see here!

    dgately
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2015-02-25 06:38
    Some of it is really good and some of it seems to be not so good.

    One has to start someplace. First projects tend to be simple quick and cheap, and so must trade off flexibility and durability.

    Not everyone starts out as Leonardo DaVinci. Even Leonardo DaVinci started out as just another guy with curiosity (one might assume).
  • Jeff HaasJeff Haas Posts: 421
    edited 2015-02-26 17:06
    Forrest Mims recently wrote an article for Make Magazine about how one of his early projects failed, and what he learned from it, and how it was a step to his future career:
    http://makezine.com/magazine/make-43/when-projects-fail/

    And he writes a regular column for the magazine as well - click on his name at the top of that page and you'll go to a listing of his other articles.

    I think the people at Make have their hearts in the right place - they are there to inspire people and help them learn.
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