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silicon fab location?

m00tykinsm00tykins Posts: 73
edited 2015-02-03 14:39 in Propeller 2
Hey there guys, been a while :)

I was wondering what fab parallax will be using for making the p2? Will it be possible to order custom chip packages? I'd very much like to see a windowed design (like those old eproms), though I'm sure it's a long shot. Ty! :)

Btw I'm typing this from my phone, hope the font isn't insanely large XD

Comments

  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,915
    edited 2015-02-03 11:32
    From their own website, ON Semi appears to have one facility capable of 180nm - http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/content.do?id=15051

    Interestingly, packaging may be done elsewhere.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-02-03 12:09
    m00tykins,
    I'd very much like to see a windowed design (like those old eproms)
    Do be serious. EPROMS had a window for a reason.

    Adding a window to a chip like the Prop would make it ten or a hundred times more expensive.

    As the demand for such a thing would be very small that makes them custom made. That makes it tens of thousands of times more expensive.

    Or...

    Invest in some hardware to mill/grind the tops off of chips and otherwise gain access to the die. Then stick a window on it :)

    Plenty of vids on YouTube as to how to do this.
  • m00tykinsm00tykins Posts: 73
    edited 2015-02-03 12:43
    Heater. wrote: »
    m00tykins,

    Do be serious. EPROMS had a window for a reason.

    Adding a window to a chip like the Prop would make it ten or a hundred times more expensive.

    As the demand for such a thing would be very small that makes them custom made. That makes it tens of thousands of times more expensive.

    Or...

    Invest in some hardware to mill/grind the tops off of chips and otherwise gain access to the die. Then stick a window on it :)

    Plenty of vids on YouTube as to how to do this.

    Heheh, I know they had a window for erasing which would be useless on a propeller, but I guess this was more of a "it would look really cool if..." suggestion. I wasn't sure how much more expensive it would be, though... oh well. :)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-02-03 13:17
    Yep,

    It would look really cool.

    For geek creds grinding the top off of a chip is something you or someone else should do.

    But, the chip has to still be functional whilst visible.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    edited 2015-02-03 13:19
    m00tykins wrote: »
    I'd very much like to see a windowed design (like those old eproms), though I'm sure it's a long shot.
    Why ? I'm sure Parallax will release photos of the Die at orders of magnitude lower cost.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-02-03 14:01
    It was a giggle when I put a 2708 EPROM under my friends microscope.

    We had a look around at whatever traces we could see, very beautiful.

    Then his girlfriend takes a look and starts saying "Copyright Intel Corporation 1974" or whatever.

    We were stunned that we could see that on the die.

    But, the most exciting part about an EPROM with a window is when you put it in it's socket the wrong way around.

    The whole die lights up red and then white, shinning a message through the window "I'm about to die".

    Then it's dead.
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,702
    edited 2015-02-03 14:19
    Heater. wrote: »
    Or...

    Invest in some hardware to mill/grind the tops off of chips and otherwise gain access to the die. Then stick a window on it :)

    Plenty of vids on YouTube as to how to do this.

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/134596-Lobotomized-Prop?p=1037873&viewfull=1#post1037873

    though no geek cred since I doubt it still works

    Its a beautiful looking die though
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-02-03 14:39
    I wish I could now find links to the vids I have seen where guys shaved the packaging away so that they could probe a running chip or look at it under an electron microscope.
  • Alexander (Sandy) HapgoodAlexander (Sandy) Hapgood Posts: 360
    Have you ever visited http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/index.html? Some good photomicrographs there.

    This is one of my favorites
    http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/pages/russians.html

    Sandy
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    Maybe Parallax may consider selling some die. Maybe even wafer(s). While they wouldn't be usable, if the pricing wasn't too expensive I'd love to have one for a show piece.
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,566
    edited 2015-07-19 19:58
    I have one of the original P1's that was placed in a 40-Pin DIP that was never "capped" and it still worked last time I tried it which was just a few years ago.  ... So the same could theoretically be done for a P2.

    Edit: Just tested the De-capped P1 and it still works (07-19-2015) ... at least the IDE can identify it, I haven't run any actual code on it other than when I first started at Parallax I used it all the time without any issues.

    De-capped%20P1.jpg
  • Wuerfel_21Wuerfel_21 Posts: 5,052
    Hmm, they should maybe consider having a through-hole package of the p2, although i dont think DIPs with more than 64 pins exist. Wasn't there once a package like dip, but square and with legs on all 4 sides?
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    Hmm, they should maybe consider having a through-hole package of the p2, although i dont think DIPs with more than 64 pins exist. Wasn't there once a package like dip, but square and with legs on all 4 sides?

    Easy enough to use a un-formed J-Lead PLCC package !!  ;)
    I've seen those in the wild only on marketing brochures, where the Graphic designer thought 4 sided pins looked 'sexier' than two ?
    DIPs are dinosaurs, but a DIP module is quite realistic.Perhaps a BGA P2 would make that smaller/easier.
  • m00tykinsm00tykins Posts: 73
    De-capped%20P1.jpg


    IT'S... BAYOOTIFUL... ;-;
  • koehlerkoehler Posts: 598
    edited 2015-07-20 13:25

    Parallax could probably sell a dozen or 3 P2 bare at slightly above P2 price to Forumistas.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2015-07-21 00:54
    I am sure those packages cost many times the cost for a standard package.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    100K per small Quantity. Takes a shuttle to produce one or a few.

    Maybe the package guys are cheaper and could run a few sans caps.

    I got to see one of those and that spooky machine Chip used to fix the first P1.
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