Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA PCB on Pick-n-Place — Parallax Forums

Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA PCB on Pick-n-Place

Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
edited 2015-04-05 18:32 in Propeller 1
The Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA PCB is now on the Pick-n-Place SMT line. This four-layer board uses 75+ feeder locations and places components on both sides of the PCB.

Will keep everybody posted on the initial results.

Ken Gracey
IMG_2765.JPG
640 x 480 - 122K
IMG_2766.JPG
640 x 480 - 97K
IMG_2767.JPG
640 x 480 - 141K
IMG_2770.JPG
640 x 480 - 91K

Comments

  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2015-01-05 10:39
    Cool! I guess they will appear in the Parallax store soon. :-)
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2015-01-05 10:40
    Ken,

    Is this the first BGA that you have done?
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2015-01-05 10:43
    Hey Jim -

    No, we've placed these before on prior FPGA boards. The solder stencil process and reflow profile are the most complex aspects of dealing with BGAs. They're potentially troublesome like QFNs, but we'll succeed.

    Ken Gracey
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2015-01-05 10:52
    Of course, I should have looked closely at the previous product.

    http://www.parallax.com/product/60050

    Much success!
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2015-01-05 11:06
    Publison wrote: »
    Of course, I should have looked closely at the previous product.

    http://www.parallax.com/product/60050

    Much success!

    Actually, that board is built by Terasic in Taiwan. I'm having trouble inserting images into this message (we're meeting at lunch about our forum repair/upgrade), but do a Google for "Parallax Cyclone FPGA" or "Parallax FPGA Altera QuickStart" and you'll find our prior FPGA assemblies.

    You see, enough time goes by and we forget how complicated it is to build these boards, and we find ourselves right back at the P&P doing it again :)

    Ken Gracey
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2015-01-05 11:37
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    Actually, that board is built by Terasic in Taiwan. I'm having trouble inserting images into this message (we're meeting at lunch about our forum repair/upgrade), but do a Google for "Parallax Cyclone FPGA" or "Parallax FPGA Altera QuickStart" and you'll find our prior FPGA assemblies.

    You see, enough time goes by and we forget how complicated it is to build these boards, and we find ourselves right back at the P&P doing it again :)

    Ken Gracey

    So I'm guessin' it was the one I found on the 2009 CD:
    Stratix672_board.jpg
    500 x 523 - 54K
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,702
    edited 2015-01-05 13:07
    Very exciting news.

    I like the name, hopefully P3 is an easier process as a result of having this
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    edited 2015-01-05 15:14
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    Will keep everybody posted on the initial results.
    What range of FPGAs will this support ?
    First choice I see is the A7, but does the PCB design also support fitting of smaller FPGAs ?
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2015-01-05 16:13
    Fantastic!
    Looking forward to their availability.
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2015-01-05 16:41
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    The Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA PCB is now on the Pick-n-Place SMT line. This four-layer board uses 75+ feeder locations and places components on both sides of the PCB.

    Will keep everybody posted on the initial results.

    Ken Gracey

    Thanks Ken
    (just inserted photos inline for easier view)

    attachment.php?attachmentid=112653&d=1420482746
    attachment.php?attachmentid=112654&d=1420482746
    attachment.php?attachmentid=112655&d=1420482746
    attachment.php?attachmentid=112656&d=1420482746
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2015-01-05 17:13
    Peter Jakacki wrote: »
    Thanks Ken
    (just inserted photos inline for easier view)

    With our newly-broken forums I'm unable to figure out the steps to do this. Can you tell me how to do this?

    Thanks,

    Ken Gracey
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,105
    edited 2015-01-05 17:19
    You need to open the image, then copy the URL. Put that between [ img ] tags.

    Testing:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=112653&d=1420482746
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2015-01-05 19:20
    Or just right click on the download in the preview screen, and click "copy link address." Then paste that between [noparse]and[/noparse] tags.

    -Phil
  • T ChapT Chap Posts: 4,223
    edited 2015-01-05 19:34
    What is the setup time for a board on that machine? When you say troublesome, do you mean the QFN's require rework?
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2015-01-05 21:12
    T Chap wrote: »
    What is the setup time for a board on that machine? When you say troublesome, do you mean the QFN's require rework?

    Hey T Chap!

    The setup time on the P&P for this particular board is about two full days of loading parts on feeders. This includes time required to cycle count the parts and check inventory prior. The programming of the P&P for this board is at least three days, so we're into this five days before we actually press the green button.

    QFNs require precise placement on the PCB and require more attention to reflow oven temperature profiles.

    Ken Gracey
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    edited 2015-01-06 00:51
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    The programming of the P&P for this board is at least three days, so we're into this five days before we actually press the green button.

    That sounds a lot of time ?
    Better PCB design packages should be able to create an almost machine ready placement file, referenced to any point you choose.
    The only unknown from the PCB design CAD info, is the relative Decal to Tape rotation fix-up, usually one of 4 90' choices.
    That can be managed with a Part attribute, so as you learn the Decal to Tape rotation for each SMD part, it can not need manual entry next time.
    (likewise for Z info, if that is needed too)
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2015-01-06 21:55
    Many pcb houses don't use flat pcb stock so, unless you preflatten your pcbs, ,,, .... qfn is teh suxor.

    You can see this if you take a stack of pcbs and restack them, but flip every other pcb.

    I found qfns were problems with too little solder paste, those legs suck up lots of solder.

    Rarely did I have bridges, but often I had a floating leg due to a lack of paste combined with pcb flex.
    I can spot a solder bridge with my bare eyes on this pitch.
    But if it had a loose leg there was virtually no way to notice, save for the missing ski slope solder.
    Even ones that had no slope were welded, so it wasn't a good indicator, but the entire pcb would fail a JEDEC/IPC inspection due to a lack of paste.
    Coarse teh bozz didn't see it that way. (apparently solder paste is expensive)



    Parallax, you've come full circle.
    This pcb is dated 2003.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=112697&d=1420610026
    cyc1.jpg
    1024 x 576 - 470K
    cyc1.jpg 469.8K
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2015-01-07 00:26
    Ken, as always, I am at your disposal should the need arise.
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,983
    edited 2015-01-07 05:29
    hopefully the price will be lower than $600.00 At least low enough to get it past the controller. The one with the diamond that is........
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2015-01-07 08:27
    @Frank: Start mooching little bits of money now. Then the "big ask" is much smaller. Just tuck it away...

    I've already started skipping coffees. Got $50 already. By the time Parallax gets this done, I'll be a big chunk of the way there.

    Since I got the DE2 on academic, I'm stuck with it. What I'll probably do is find a student somewhere, who I can trust not to sell it and keep the agreement with the nice vendor, who let me in cheap.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2015-04-05 16:18
    Is this available yet? I see Brian down in OZ did a benchmark with it.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2015-04-05 16:21
    Publison wrote: »
    Is this available yet? I see Brian down in OZ did a benchmark with it.
    I thought that at first too but I wonder if he just set the Altera tool to target the same FPGA chip that Parallax is using to get those numbers.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2015-04-05 16:30
    David Betz wrote: »
    I thought that at first too but I wonder if he just set the Altera tool to target the same FPGA chip that Parallax is using to get those numbers.

    Maybe he got a one-off from the January run? They looked like they where going to run a few through Pick-Place and reflow.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,920
    edited 2015-04-05 16:39
    Publison wrote: »
    Maybe he got a one-off from the January run? They looked like they where going to run a few through Pick-Place and reflow.

    Hehe, maybe. I don't so, though. He just did a sizing exercise, as David suggests there's no requirement to even load a chip up for that.
  • ozpropdevozpropdev Posts: 2,792
    edited 2015-04-05 18:32
    Correct. I don't have one, but I am waiting for their release like you guys. :)
Sign In or Register to comment.