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Prop2 Development Update — Parallax Forums

Prop2 Development Update

cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,155
edited 2015-02-02 15:07 in Propeller 2
Merry Christmas, Everyone!

I hope you are all doing well and I thank you for sticking around through this protracted saga.

I reached a milestone yesterday. I finished the new schematic for the full-custom portion of the Prop2. Layout will begin soon. Once that is underway, I will be back on the Verilog side. There are four things that need developing in order to complete the chip:

1) Hub execution (Verilog, challenging)
2) Pipelined CORDIC in the hub (Verilog, pretty straightforward)
3) Smart pins (Verilog, not hard, but very open-ended)
4) ROM code (Prop2 assembly language, not hard)

I think that's all there is. Once that is all done, the whole chip can be assembled and we'll have it fabricated.

Meanwhile, I will be putting out new FPGA images as things progress.

Our new Cyclone V -A7 board is done, but not tested yet. We need to write some Prop1 code to make it work. It looks really nice, anyway. The one thing that that board will offer for Prop2 emulation that is unique from the other FPGA boards is a full 512KB hub RAM.

Thanks for reading! I hope to start getting FPGA updates out soon.
«13

Comments

  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2014-12-24 21:44
    Hi Chip,

    Thanks for the P2 update! Sounds like you're making great progress. Merry Christmas!!

    David
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-12-24 22:48
    Merry Christmas!

    Thanks for the update Chip. Sounds like all the ducks are lined up in a row :)

    Bill
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-12-24 23:54
    Merry Christmas to all, and especially Chip Gracey.

    Product development is a long and winding road at best. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.

    Meanwhile, I woke up this morning -- Christmas Day -- to a telephone call from the Taiwan Post Office saying that they would deliver my priority mail package from Parallax at noon. And at noon, I got my goodies (including a free surprise).

    So it feels a bit Christmassy even if Taiwan just considers it a regular business day.
  • ozpropdevozpropdev Posts: 2,792
    edited 2014-12-25 00:43
    Merry Christmas to all !
    Thanks for the update Chip. Looking forward to new FPGA adventures in P2. :)
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,241
    edited 2014-12-25 07:06
    Thanks for the update Chip. Have a Merry Christmas!

    Paul
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2014-12-25 14:26
    Good news Chip.
    Thanks for the update, but do take some time off to spend with your family!
    merry Christmas everyone
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2014-12-25 16:22
    Awesome news Chip :D

    Merry Christmas Chip and family, Ken and family, all at Parallax, and all the forum members hope your day was as good as mine! :)

    All the best!

    Jim.
  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2014-12-26 05:26
    Thank you Chip for the update. This is cool about the P2.

    What is this about FPGA and a Parallax board? I'm eager to learn more when the time comes. I'd love to jump in with earlier development on the P2.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2014-12-26 19:36
    cgracey wrote: »
    1) Hub execution (Verilog, challenging)
    As much as I'd like to see hub execution make it into P2, I'd hate to have it drag out the development cycle if it doesn't fit well into the architecture. Leave it out if it doesn't make sense.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,922
    edited 2014-12-26 20:20
    David Betz wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to see hub execution make it into P2, I'd hate to have it drag out the development cycle if it doesn't fit well into the architecture. Leave it out if it doesn't make sense.

    Oi! No talking of such. All that hub bandwidth and the thought of not being able to abuse it?! :P
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2014-12-26 20:38
    evanh wrote: »
    Oi! No talking of such. All that hub bandwidth and the thought of not being able to abuse it?! :P
    There is always Bill's LMM.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,155
    edited 2014-12-26 20:51
    Hub exec is definitely going into the design. The hub memory was designed to accommodate it.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2014-12-26 21:20
    cgracey wrote: »
    Hub exec is definitely going into the design. The hub memory was designed to accommodate it.
    Good to hear. I thought maybe your comment about it being "challenging" indicated that it wasn't fitting in well with the rest fo the design. I'm glad that is not the case.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    edited 2014-12-27 05:35
    cgracey wrote: »
    Hub exec is definitely going into the design. The hub memory was designed to accommodate it.
    Sounds good, that will give an important boost the the market footprint, as well as general credibility.

    One usage area I see is Motor control, and a trend in Asia is for 0.8mm packages for wave soldering.
    You may be able to find a die-compatible (same package size as 128p 0.4mm) package, and plan the PAD placements to support bonding into a TQFP64 0.8mm as a 'future option' ?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-12-27 07:29
    Oh yeah, Chipmas is coming...better than ever.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2014-12-28 00:11
    Heater. wrote: »
    Oh yeah, Chipmas is coming...better than ever.
    Better start finding a spare year+ to play with it! There is going to be so many things we can do with the P2 ;)
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,702
    edited 2014-12-29 01:53
    Do the smart pins really need to be described as "very open ended" given the ground already covered? Perhaps your expectations are way beyond we mortals in this area, Chip.

    We can certainly simulate and test a few iterations in this area in an fpga, to work out the minimum required at the pin end, and the minimum required at the cog end. That might help flush out what really matters

    Thanks for the update
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,155
    edited 2014-12-30 04:19
    Tubular wrote: »
    Do the smart pins really need to be described as "very open ended" given the ground already covered? Perhaps your expectations are way beyond we mortals in this area, Chip.

    We can certainly simulate and test a few iterations in this area in an fpga, to work out the minimum required at the pin end, and the minimum required at the cog end. That might help flush out what really matters

    Thanks for the update

    The smart pins could potentially do just about anything. I think to open this up on the FPGA so that people could write their own Verilog would be great. There are two commands in assembly language that will talk to these subsystems. One instruction configures pins via their DIR bit using clock/1 signaling, while the fastest software can change the DIR state is clock/2. The other instruction reads back serial messages coming from a pin's IN signal at clock/1. We may find a better way, of course.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,155
    edited 2014-12-30 04:22
    Thank you Chip for the update. This is cool about the P2.

    What is this about FPGA and a Parallax board? I'm eager to learn more when the time comes. I'd love to jump in with earlier development on the P2.

    It's a Cyclone V -A7 board that can be used for Prop1..3 development. That's its intended use, anyway. I don't know what we are going to sell it for, yet, but Altera gave us a good price on the -A7 device. If I recall, it has 150k LE's and enough RAM to support 512KB of hub memory. The board has 6 video DAC's, too, for fast analog out (2 x R-G-B).
  • ozpropdevozpropdev Posts: 2,792
    edited 2014-12-30 04:27
    Sounds great Chip!
    2015 is looking like an action packed year! :)
  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2014-12-30 04:29
    Cool! Thanks for letting us know about the FPGA board. I will wait calmly for it.
  • msrobotsmsrobots Posts: 3,709
    edited 2014-12-30 05:22
    Smart Pin Subsystems.

    Sometimes I am slow go grasp concepts. So some questions:

    Besides 16 cogs, 512KB and HubExec we will have a subsystem on each pin, able to be configured via 'serial command'. Right?
    Them Subsystems run independent of the cogs, sort of a programmable I/O pin - Smart Pin. Right?
    So @Chip added another layer of parallelism between cogs and pins. Wonderful! Am I still Right?
    This says to me that the core P2 can be finalized and tested while the SmartPin Subsystem still can get extended. Am I still Right?

    Following them other posts there will be a lot of functionality possible in the SmartPins. Digital I/O, analog I/O, PWM and tons of other stuff not yet defined completely. What goes in will depend on die size, but yeah let the community here help to provide Verilog for @Chip to put in or not.

    Good times ahead.

    Like @Timothy D. Swieter I am waiting calmly for the Parallax FPGA Board (and the not yet announced seminar in Rocklin...)

    Enjoy!

    Mike
  • AribaAriba Posts: 2,690
    edited 2014-12-30 06:01
    Cool! Thanks for letting us know about the FPGA board. I will wait calmly for it.

    Here are some more infos about the FPGA Board:
    http://www.parallax.com/news/2014-10-20/parallax-cyclone-v-fpga-development-board-programming-and-development-tool-propeller

    Andy
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2014-12-30 06:36
    Chip, keep up the good work...
    I too can't wait to get the FPGA board. Let us know when they are available for purchase.

    Bean
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2014-12-30 15:19
    Interesting pcb pic :)
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,155
    edited 2014-12-30 19:48
    msrobots wrote: »
    Smart Pin Subsystems.

    Sometimes I am slow go grasp concepts. So some questions:

    Besides 16 cogs, 512KB and HubExec we will have a subsystem on each pin, able to be configured via 'serial command'. Right?
    Them Subsystems run independent of the cogs, sort of a programmable I/O pin - Smart Pin. Right?
    So @Chip added another layer of parallelism between cogs and pins. Wonderful! Am I still Right?
    This says to me that the core P2 can be finalized and tested while the SmartPin Subsystem still can get extended. Am I still Right?

    Following them other posts there will be a lot of functionality possible in the SmartPins. Digital I/O, analog I/O, PWM and tons of other stuff not yet defined completely. What goes in will depend on die size, but yeah let the community here help to provide Verilog for @Chip to put in or not.

    Good times ahead.

    Like @Timothy D. Swieter I am waiting calmly for the Parallax FPGA Board (and the not yet announced seminar in Rocklin...)

    Enjoy!

    Mike

    Mike, you are right about the intention of smart pins. They perform asynchronous functions on their own, decoupling the cog from the pin activity. They can be independently developed, apart from the cogs.
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,702
    edited 2014-12-30 20:53
    I take it there are three signals from each cog to each pin (in, out, dir/command) ?

    Any ideas what kind of complexity would fit around the pins, or is it too early to say? Eg would a P1 counter per pin (or per pin pair) be around the right size?
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,155
    edited 2014-12-30 21:59
    Tubular wrote: »
    I take it there are three signals from each cog to each pin (in, out, dir/command) ?

    Any ideas what kind of complexity would fit around the pins, or is it too early to say? Eg would a P1 counter per pin (or per pin pair) be around the right size?

    I figure that we need at least that much logic to facilitate 32-bit adds and counts. Then, there's the serialization logic. You're right that the conduit is the IN, OUT, and DIR signals.
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,702
    edited 2014-12-31 00:31
    Ok. Yes I guess there needs to be a holding/capture register that can copy the active register(s), and also shift data in or out from the cog. So thats around 128 flops per pin?

    I'm not sure what this means for goertzel
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