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Forum Noob Looking for Pinewood Derby Assistance — Parallax Forums

Forum Noob Looking for Pinewood Derby Assistance

LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
edited 2014-12-29 12:38 in Propeller 1
Hi everyone,
I was recently direct to this forum and these products by a coworker. We were talking about how to biuld a Pinewood Derby Sequence of Finish timer for an old track we have when he suggested this might help. I dug through what I could find and there are two old threads that are related to what I am doing:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/102321-Inferred-start-finish-line-detector-with-timer.-For-co2-cars!!!?highlight=pinewood+derby

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/136035-Race-timer?highlight=pinewood+derby

Like user arend in the second post what I am looking to do is this:

Make a Sequence of Finish timer that uses:
-A control switch at the top of the track at the start gate to signal the beginning of the race (mechanical)
-Set IRLEDs and photo sensors at the finish line for either 6, or preferably 8 lanes. IRLEDs and the bottom and Photo sensors in tubes above them.
-Set up a simple 7 segment LED display (2-4" tall) that shows what order the cars finished in above each lane (6 or eight displays in total)

Mostly what I have been finding is timer circuits which could work in place of SOF, but I want to keep it simple. One idea I had previous to this was building 8 simple digital stopwatch circuits (one for each lane), and tying the start and reset functions together. The hard part was the finish line circuit that would stop the timer count as each car passed over a sensor. The designs I saw were simple in that the start/stop functions were one and the same which would work for me. This is why my coworker suggested the Propeller. I've seen similar ideas on Youtube for Arduino based systems but nothing to handle 8 lanes for cheap.

So, for the group, is this something the Propeller could do? I am more than capable mechanically, and electrically and have some programming knowledge. If I were to got his route what do you think I would need?
I know some things would be:
- 6 or 8 sets of IRLED/Phototransistors
- Start switch
- Reset switch
- Structure for the finish line sensors
- 6 or 8x seven segment LED displays

Any help would be great.

Len

Comments

  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2014-12-19 11:08
    I built a pinewood derby timer four years ago.

    Here's a video of the prototype

    I posted a blog entry with the source code:

    http://forums.parallax.com/entry.php/3396-My-Pinewood-Derby-Prototype

    Note that due to forum migration the code needs a pretty printing, and it was written using the beta Arduino libraries. It might need some tweaks to work on the modern IDE.
  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-19 11:30
    Hi Martin_H,
    I do like the simple design. I know the kids would love to be able to see some kind of display because, well, kids want to win. That being said, is this something that could be scaled up to 6 or 8 lanes? For the finish lines sensors I am assuming you are using the overhead ambient light for the photosensors?

    I can't see the link you posted, for some reason it is saying I don't have any rights.

    Thanks!

    Len
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2014-12-19 11:53
    Yes, the design can be scaled up to six or eight lanes. We initially used overhead lights, but had occasionally failures to detect a car finishing. We found having a lamp directly over the finish line improved reliability considerably.

    Note that this design is really simple and could work with either an Arduino or Propeller chip as both of them have internal tick counters that can be used to time events. Only a little of the code interacts with the Arduino library and it would be easy to replace with native propeller C equivalents. Electrically it's two push button detection circuits, a three pin able for the servo, and a bunch of either CDS or photocells to detect the light transition.
  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-19 12:04
    I am content with using either. Since I can't see the link you posted, is there any other place I can get this info? Whatever I am going to do I have to decide quickly since our next race is in February.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2014-12-19 13:30
    There's really only few kinds of circuits you need. If you learned how to do one a night you could probably have a prototype in a week. Soldering together the finished unit would take a few evenings at most, and that would include making the sensors and cables.

    The first circuit is one to detect push buttons to start and stop the race: http://learn.parallax.com/propeller-c-simple-circuits/check-pushbuttons

    The second is one to sense a change in light levels as the car passes overhead: http://learn.parallax.com/propeller-c-simple-circuits/sense-light

    The final circuit is connecting the microcontroller to a display device like an LCD panel. That's less of a circuit and more just connecting the output of six pins into the correct leads of an LCD panel. HEre's an example in Spin http://tymkrs.tumblr.com/post/87994050098/parallel-lcd-propeller-and-in-spin
  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-19 13:41
    Thanks Martin I think I have a bunch to start with. Do you still have the original information from the system you showed in the Youtube video? I can't access the link so I don't know if it was moved or not.

    Thanks!
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2014-12-19 13:49
    I'll look around and see what I have.
  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-19 14:05
    Thanks again!
  • cavelambcavelamb Posts: 720
    edited 2014-12-19 17:54
    Martin (et al),

    Can't read the linked page.
    you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

    Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to
    edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
    If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be
    awaiting activation.


    LF, I'm guessing the lanes are flat black? at least at the finish line.
    So the light reflecting off of the cars would be what the photo transistor sees happen.

    I think Parallax still carries the serial LCD display Fewer pins used for that and simple software.
    But a great big seven segment display counting tenths of seconds could add something to the excitement level.

    Maybe even a big bright LED over the winners lane?


    Could be a fun project.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2014-12-19 18:35
    @cavelamb, it's a blog post I made a few years back about my race timer. I'm not sure what is going on with the error, but I will reproduce the code here later.
  • koehlerkoehler Posts: 598
    edited 2014-12-19 23:34
    Just a suggestion.

    Try to get a newer phone or camera with slow-motion for recording races from overhead at the finish line.

    120 fps should be good enough for photo-finish confirmation if there are any questions.
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2014-12-20 07:21
    Instead of 4" LED digits, I would suggest using VGA or Composite and a small flat screen TV.
    Then you can display much more information and have color also.

    Bean
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-12-20 07:28
    cavelamb wrote: »
    Martin (et al),

    Can't read the linked page.
    you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

    Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to
    edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
    If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be
    awaiting activation.


    The forum is sill going through some upgrades. The Blogs will not be available during this time.
  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-20 10:42
    Cavelamb - Many of the designs do use an overhead incandescent for illumination. That way when a car passes over the line there is a drop in voltage which is the trigger. Others use paired IRLEDs and phototransistors for the same function. And yes the end of the track will most likely be repainted flat black to aid in controlling light scatter.

    Koehler- We've been using video in the past but it takes time. as you know kids have little patience so we like to keep things rolling.

    A simple single digit LED above the finish line indicating finish order is the simplest. A timer showing time elapsed is also good.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2014-12-20 20:02
    If you want a single digit display above each lane you could simplify it by building a small board with the led display, IR emitter, and IR detector on it that would go above each lane. A retro-reflector on the ground below would reflect the IR from the emitter back up to the detector. Makes for a simple modular system that can start small (1 lane) and be expanded to 8 or more lanes.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-12-21 08:23
    I have been trying to link Martin's Blog and code to here, to no avail. I just do not have enough permissions to access the Blogs.
  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-26 07:13
    Yes, I agree with the idea. The problem I am having will be coming up with the logic for the finish sequence. I need some way of determining race finish sequence so that I can display the finish order properly. Here are some examples of purchase-able product:

    http://www.microwizard.com/k2page.html

    http://www.pinewood-derby-timer.com/home.html

    Again, the problem is cost. an eight lane system costs many hundreds of dollars.

    Len
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2014-12-26 08:30
    I guess I misunderstood what you meant by Pinewood Derby. These look like toy cars rather than ones the kids actually sit in. How wide are the lanes?
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2014-12-26 08:53
    A single propeller chip would easily handle measuring the elapsed time for 8 lanes as well as determining the finish sequence and displaying it on the 8 led displays. While you can't display the elapsed times on a single digit display all of the information (Position, Lane, Elapsed time, etc.) could be sent to a pc/laptop or displayed on a tv or computer monitor using the same propeller.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2014-12-26 21:01
    I looked at prices for parts on mouser for what you would need to build the lane sensor boards while shopping for other parts. The total price per board for the semiconductors is less than $15.00 per board. Add $5.00 for a small pad per hole pcb (1.5” x 2.5” min) and the total cost per board is $20.00. Interesting thing is you need to order 10 rather than 8 of the semiconductors to get the better price so you end up with some spare parts.

    Add $20.00 for a propeller proto board and about $20.00 for a 9V 1A power supply and the total is about $200.00 not including any shipping costs. A little scrounging might even reduce that some.
  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-27 14:36
    What parts were you looking at? I am guessing I would need:
    1 - Start gate switch
    1 - Long cable from start gate back to controller
    1 - Propeller board
    1 - Reset switch
    1 - 5VDC power supply
    6 or 8 - sets of IRLEDs/Phototransistors (depending on whether I make this for 6 or eight lanes)
    6 or 8 - LED displays
    Wire or cabling for the sensors back to the controller
    various resistors and such

    Seeing as I have never used the Propeller products I am not sure all I would need or exactly how this would work. Any further ideas? Circuits, etc.? Thanks for the help thus far!
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2014-12-28 12:38
    The physical layout of your setup needs to be taken into account for the overall design so the length and width of the lanes, placement of the controller, and start gate mechanism needs to be known for an optimal design. A diagram with measurements would be a great help.

    As a starting point I looked at the following parts:

    1 - Start gate switch: starts the timers when closed, resets system when open.
    1 – Propeller Project board: system controller.
    1 – 9VDC 1Amp power supply.
    10 – Led displays and drivers
    10 – IR receivers and leds
    10 – Voltage regulators
    8 – Pad per hole circuit boards

    FYI, Buying 10 pieces for some of the parts is less than buying 8.

    BTW, if you had an extra monitor you could use for this it would make for a less costly and more capable system.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2014-12-28 19:06
    I was able to build my Pinewood Derby timer for around $120. I used a high torque servo to lift and lower the gate and a cheap LCD to display the data.

    Here's a copy of my timer code for the Arduino. It should be easy to port to the prop either by replacing the Arduino library calls with their Propeller equivlents or using my own library: https://code.google.com/p/lib-propelleruino/ which reimplments many of them.
    /*
     * Pine Wood Derby Timer
     * Copyright 2010-2012 Martin Heermance
     *
     *  This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
     * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
     * the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or
     * (at your option) any later version.
     *
     * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
     * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
     * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
     * GNU General Public License for more details.
     *
     * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
     * along with this program.  If not, see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.
     *
     * Note: The GNU GPL is at the end of this file.
     */
    
    // Include the library code:
    #include <LiquidCrystal.h>
    #include <Servo.h>
    
    // Initialize the library with the numbers of the interface pins
    LiquidCrystal lcd(3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8);
    
    // Create servo object to control the gate.
    Servo gateServo;
    
    // Pin number definitions.
    const int startPin = 10;
    const int stopPin = 11;
    const int servoPin =  9;
    const int lane0Pin = 0;
    
    // Change this variable to change the number of lanes.
    const int laneCount = 4;
    
    // Change these to match the LCD.
    const int displayWidth = 16;
    const int displayHeight = 2;
    const int scrollPause = 250;
    
    const int debounceDelay = 50;
    
    // Gate position constants (servo dependant!)
    const int gateClosed = 120;
    const int gateOpened = 30;
    
    // Volatile state variables
    int initialStartState = 0;
    int startButtonState = 0;
    int stopButtonState = 0;
    int finishSequence[laneCount];
    int laneSensorValues[laneCount];
    int laneAmbientValues[laneCount];
    unsigned long laneEndTimes[laneCount];
    
    // Perform one time initialization.
    void setup()
    {
      // Set up the LCD's number of rows and columns: 
      lcd.begin(displayWidth, displayHeight);
    
      // Print a message to the LCD.
      lcd.print("Hello, scouts!");
    
      // Initialize the pushbutton pins as an input:
      pinMode(startPin, INPUT);
      pinMode(stopPin, INPUT);
      
      // Attach the servo object to pin 9.
      gateServo.attach(servoPin);
      
      // Pause to give user a chance to see welcome message.
      delay(500);
    }
    
    // Main loop
    void loop()
    {
      // Pause to give user a chance to push buttons.
      delay(500);
    
      // Get the sensors to set the initial values.
      readSensors();
    
      // If both buttons are not held down, then enter race mode.
      if (startButtonState == LOW || stopButtonState == LOW)
        raceCars();
      else
        // Otherwise enter diagnostic mode.
        displayDiagnostics();
    }
    
    // Controls one race and returns to the main loop.
    void raceCars()
    { 
      // Close the gate to start.
      setGate(gateClosed);
    
      // Print a message to the LCD.
      lcd.clear();
      lcd.print("Ready to race!");
    
      // Calibrate the finish line sensors.
      for(int idx = 0; idx < laneCount; idx++)
        laneAmbientValues[idx] = laneSensorValues[idx];
    
      // No lanes are finished.
      int finishedCount = 0;
    
      // Set the initialStartState so we can sense the change in value.
      // This allows the use of a remote gate sensor instead of a button
      // as they are normally closed.
      initialStartState = startButtonState;
    
      // Debounce the switches.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    
      // Wait for user to change the button to begin the race.
      while( (startButtonState = digitalRead(startPin)) == initialStartState )
      {
        setGate(gateClosed);
      }
    
      lcd.clear();
      lcd.print("Race started!");
      setGate(gateOpened);
    
      // Record the race start time.
      unsigned long raceStartTime = millis();
    
      // Initialize the end times to the race start time
      for(int idx = 0; idx < laneCount; idx++)
        laneEndTimes[idx] = raceStartTime;
    
      // Watch the lane sensors in a tight loop.  As the sensors trip,
      // record the time, but only once.  Continue until all cars finish,
      // or the user pushes stop button.
      do
      {
        // Read all the sensors.
        readSensors();
    
        // Foreach lane.
        for(int idx = 0; idx < laneCount; idx++)
        {
          // If we haven't yet recorded an end time.
          if (laneEndTimes[idx] == raceStartTime && laneSensorTriggered(idx))
          {
            laneEndTimes[idx] = millis() - raceStartTime;
            finishSequence[finishedCount] = idx;
            finishedCount++;
          }
        }
      }
      while (stopButtonState == LOW && finishedCount < laneCount);
    
      // If any cars didn't finish, then mark the time now.
      for(int idx = 0; idx < laneCount; idx++)
      {
        if (laneEndTimes[idx] == raceStartTime)
        {
          laneEndTimes[idx] = millis() - raceStartTime;
          finishSequence[finishedCount] = idx;
          finishedCount++;
        }
      }
    
      lcd.clear();
      lcd.print("Race over");
    
      // Debounce the stop button.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    
      // Wait until the user releases the stop button.
      do
      {
        readSensors();
      }
      while (stopButtonState != LOW);
    
      // Debounce the stop button.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    
      // Display the car finish times to the lcd.
      displayLaneTimes();
    }
    
    // Displays the sensor values to the LCD in tight loop.
    void displayDiagnostics()
    {
      // Debounce switches.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    
      // Wait until the user releases the buttons.
      do
      {
        readSensors();
      }
      while (startButtonState != LOW || stopButtonState != LOW);
    
      // Debounce switches.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    
      // Clear LCD.
      lcd.clear();
    
      // Read and display sensor values until user presses both buttons again.
      do
      {
        readSensors();
        
        // Print the switch high low values.
        lcd.setCursor(0, 0);
        lcd.print( startButtonState == LOW ? "Low " : "High" );
        lcd.setCursor(8, 0);
        lcd.print( stopButtonState == LOW ? "Low " : "High" );
    
        for(int idx = 0; idx < laneCount; idx++)
        {
          // Scale the lane sensor value to a three digit hex number.
          char buff[4];
          sprintf(buff, "%3.3d", laneSensorValues[idx]);
          lcd.setCursor(idx * 4, 1);
          lcd.print(buff);
        }
      }
      while (startButtonState != HIGH || stopButtonState != HIGH);
    
      // Wait until the user releases the buttons.
      do
      {
        readSensors();
      }
      while (startButtonState != LOW || stopButtonState != LOW);
      
      // Again debounce before returning to main loop.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    }
    
    // Reads all the sensors and sets the state variables
    void readSensors()
    {
      startButtonState = digitalRead(startPin);
      stopButtonState = digitalRead(stopPin);
      
      for(int idx = 0; idx < laneCount; idx++)
        laneSensorValues[idx] = analogRead(lane0Pin + idx);
    }
    
    // Sets the gate to the desired position.
    void setGate(int state)
    {
      gateServo.write(state);
      delay(15);
    }
    
    // Returns true if the lane sensor is less than the trigger value
    boolean laneSensorTriggered(int lane)
    {
      if (laneSensorValues[lane] < 2*laneAmbientValues[lane]/3)
        return true;
    
      return false;
    }
    
    // Formats the times for display and scrolls in on the LCD.
    void displayLaneTimes()
    {
      // Create the text to display.
      char buff[4];
      String message = "";
      for(int idx = 0; idx < laneCount; idx++)
      {
    //    int lane = finishSequence[idx];
        long time = laneEndTimes[idx]; //[lane];
    /*
        switch (idx)
        {
          case 0:
            message += "1st Lane ";
            break;
    
          case 1:
            message += "2nd Lane ";
            break;
            
          case 2:
            message += "3rd Lane ";
            break;
            
          case 3:
            message += "4th Lane ";
            break;
        }*/
        message += "Lane ";
        message += 1 + idx; //lane;
        message += " ";
        message += time / 1000;
        message += ".";
        
        // Format to ensure there are three digits of precision.
        sprintf(buff, "%3.3d", time % 1000);
        message += buff;
        message += "s, ";
      }
    
      // Replace the last comma with a space.
      message.setCharAt(message.length() - 2, ' ');
    
      // Now scroll the text in the display, looping until
      // the user pushes the stop button again.
      do
      {
        // Move the message in from the left.
        for(int x = displayWidth - 1; x  > 0 && stopButtonState == LOW; x--)
        {
          lcd.setCursor(x, 1);
          lcd.print(message.substring(0, displayWidth - x));
    
          // Wait a bit so the user sees the text.
          delay(scrollPause);
          stopButtonState = digitalRead(stopPin);
        }
    
        // Reprint display width windows of the message until final substring is visible.
        for(int idx = 0; idx < message.length() - displayWidth && stopButtonState == LOW; idx++)
        {
          lcd.setCursor(0, 1);
          lcd.print(message.substring(idx, idx + displayWidth));
    
          // Wait a bit so the user sees the text.
          delay(scrollPause);
          stopButtonState = digitalRead(stopPin);
        }
    
        // Move the message in from the left.
        for(int w = displayWidth - 1; w  >= 0 && stopButtonState == LOW; w--)
        {
          lcd.setCursor(0, 1);
          lcd.print(message.substring(message.length() - w));
    
          // Wait a bit so the user sees the text.
          delay(scrollPause);
          stopButtonState = digitalRead(stopPin);
        }
      }
      while (stopButtonState == LOW); // Has the user pushed the finish button?
    
      // Debounce the stop button.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    
      // Wait until the user releases the stop button.
      do
      {
        readSensors();
      }
      while (stopButtonState != LOW);
    
      // Debounce the button release.
      delay(debounceDelay);
    
      // turn off automatic scrolling
      lcd.noAutoscroll();
      
      // clear screen for the next loop:
      lcd.clear();
    }
    
    /*
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  • LFransenLFransen Posts: 9
    edited 2014-12-29 08:59
    Wow this is awesome. And a bit overwhelming. Martin, did you use an Arduino with this?
    So this first thing I need to do is decide the output mechanism (LED display or LCD)
    I also need to decide on time display or finish order.
    Aside from the programming logic of deciding finish order I think I have quite bit to start on.
    So the last thing I am wondering is if the Propeller has a sufficient number of I/O to handle this. I would need 6 or 8 for the lane sensors, Start gate, reset function, and output to drive the LED displays or LCD. Th other option is maybe the Arduino Leonardo. Seems to have a lot of I/O capabilities.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2014-12-29 12:38
    The propeller has more I/O then the Arduino so that won't be a problem. I wrote it for the Arduino four years ago, but most of the code should work on the propeller. I've been working on cross compilation between the Arduino and the Propeller. Here's a video of one of my projects from my library's unit tests:

    [video=youtube_share;iydnohrqCBQ]
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