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Looking to add a new Logic Analyzer to my toybox — Parallax Forums

Looking to add a new Logic Analyzer to my toybox

Jim FouchJim Fouch Posts: 395
edited 2014-12-20 08:23 in General Discussion
I'm in a market for a new Logic Analyzer.

I currently have an Intronix LogicPort ( http://www.pctestinstruments.com/ ) I bought like 5-6 years ago and it has served me well. Only issue is it's pretty limited in the amount of samples it can take. It has 2048 samples / channel. For many things it works, but for some others it is way too limited. For example, if you're trying to debug a problem with a SPI bus and the issue is several packets from your trigger point, you are out of luck. There are a few ways to overcome this if you have control of the process that send the data, but if you're trouble shooting a closed system, there is no way.

I see that Saleae ( https://www.saleae.com/ ) has a new Logic Pro 16 that does not rely on dedicated memory at the device. It uses a USB 3.0 interface to stream data quickly to the PC and then the PC will work with the data. I've heard good things about Saleae, but I'm a bit worried that with out the hardware triggers and such it will limited. I have played with their software in demo mode and it's nice but somewhat basic when it comes to triggers.

In my search for another hardware based LA I came across this Logiczero ( http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NBYRLM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RL8MED0OEVIU&coliid=I3GY9Y6PY3LC1Y ) LAP-C 16 channel with 128K points per channel. That like 64 times what I have now. The bandwidth is not as high as my LogicPort, but I don't need 500MHz. I've never heard of Logiczero before, but their software looks pretty powerful for triggering and protocol decoding.

My budget is right around $500. I know I could get a real nice one for a ton of money, but I don't need all the bells and whistles.

I'm mostly looking at using this for double checking my software timing on things like the Propeller and PIC 8-bit and 32-bit processors. For interfacing to LCDs and such. I do think I need at least 16 channels, so one of the cheaper 8 channel units from Saleae will not work for my needs.

Any advice is welcomed.

Comments

  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-12-18 23:41
    Well...

    I went the way of the heavy iron...
    I bought a used HP Agilent 16702a Logic analyzer on eBay.

    for that amount you can probably pick up a 165**, 166** or a 167** model with a 16550 card, which has 96 channels and 4K samples.
    (Mine has two 16550 cards, connected so that I get 8K samples instead of doubling the inputs)
    A bit more and you could hit 1M samples.

    If you're really lucky you might even find one with a 16533 or 16534 scope card in it.
    (These usually go fast! The 34 is a 500MHz DSO card)

    The big problem with these is that they're... well... big... and rather noisy.

    Anyway, are you certain that it's a Logic analyzer you need?
    Not a dedicated protocol sniffer?
  • Jim FouchJim Fouch Posts: 395
    edited 2014-12-19 04:57
    I've thought about going that route, but decided my work bench would not have enough room as it's already pretty crowded. I also like the idea of having one that is portable. I do use the LogicPort quite a bit and it's really nice to be able to take it with me to other locations.

    One of my clients just threw out two nice $25,000 HP LAs just to clean house. Said they didn't think they'd use them. :-( These were the really nice ones that will watch the address bus and display your code as it watches what's going on.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-12-19 10:13
    I'm really appalled that people would toss something like that.

    If they'd handed them to a surplus dealer, they should have gotten at least $200 for each if they were in a reasonably complete order.
    And if they'd taken the time to list them on eBay... Some of the 16500/16600/16700 models can go for $1000 EACH depending on condition and spec.
    A single 16534a DSO card for them in working condition is worth $500!

    Workshops and hobbyists specializing in analog stuff such as multi-stage amps love them because these cards can be linked. You can have 4 of these cards in one enclosure getting you up to 8 channels with the same trigger and timebase!
    Doing PWM or AD?
    Let it use the same trigger as a 16550 card or similar. Catch both the input and output of the circuit...
    And with a 16522a card, you can smulate the digital part of a DA circuit.
    (Or possibly store and replay traffic from an I2C bus. Haven't tried, so... )

    Disassembly is a nice function...
    (I think that requires extra SW which can no longer be obtained or installed. They shut down the licensing servers years ago)
    Another function I once saw(probably also a commercial package) displayed the 64K memory map of an 8bit CPU as a grid, and marked each location with a light whenever the CPU acessed it, then let it slowly fade. Quite a nice way of spotting where specific subroutines and their data is stored.

    Did I mention that they're networked?
    And can be accessed using Telnet for running scripts?

    Portable?
    Well, there is a carrying handle on them... ;-)

    I really need to start to really use the one I have...
  • Jim FouchJim Fouch Posts: 395
    edited 2014-12-19 10:23
    One day I saw them throw about $100K worth of equipment in the dumpster. Trust me, it's enough to make a grown engineer cry. But, that's big business for you when people who don't know what stuff is but have the power to make decisions. :-(

    Another problem is like you said, some of that older equipment/software can't be bought anymore. Once it's gone it's gone.

    I decided to take a chance with the Saleae Logic Pro 16. They have a 180 day return policy and people seem to like them a lot. @ $500 it's not a cheap date, but for the speed and ability to grab tons of data it may complement the LogicPort I already have. They really are two different approaches. Both have their weak points and strong points.
  • davejamesdavejames Posts: 4,047
    edited 2014-12-19 10:27
    http://www.usbee.com/index.html

    I have the SX model and it works quite well.
  • tomcrawfordtomcrawford Posts: 1,126
    edited 2014-12-19 10:44
    I just got a Saleae Pro 8. It works like a charm but be aware that you have to have USB 3.0 to get anywhere near the maximum advertised sample rate. With USB 2.0 you are limited to 12.5 MHz for a single analog channel, less for more channels. Max digital sample rate is 100 MHz for a single channel, less for more. I was a little disappointed they didn't say that in the top-level specifications.
  • Jim FouchJim Fouch Posts: 395
    edited 2014-12-19 11:21
    I have USB 3 on all the machines I'll be using this with. Most of what I'm working with will be slower stuff, but having the option to go faster is always a good thing.
    I just got a Saleae Pro 8. It works like a charm but be aware that you have to have USB 3.0 to get anywhere near the maximum advertised sample rate. With USB 2.0 you are limited to 12.5 MHz for a single analog channel, less for more channels. Max digital sample rate is 100 MHz for a single channel, less for more. I was a little disappointed they didn't say that in the top-level specifications.
  • J^3J^3 Posts: 121
    edited 2014-12-19 11:31
    I use my Saleae all the time and really like it. Makes debugging 1-wire trivial with the built in protocol analyzer.
  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2014-12-20 05:31
    I have an original Logic 8 from Saleae. I have enjoy this device, especially when traveling and still doing coding/debugging when I don't have my o-scope to check digital logic transitions. The latest Logic software is working really well and I love the improvements. I'm actually thinking of selling my Saleae Logic so I can get a new Logic 8 Pro.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,173
    edited 2014-12-20 05:43
    Perhaps this, mentioned in another thread ?
    http://redpitaya.com/?skip_intro=no

    My preferred Logic Analyser approach uses edge-time-stamp capture, as that gives the best dynamic range and with rare events, you do not have the luxury of resetting ranges.
    Edge-stamp also needs much lower transfer bandwidths.
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-12-20 08:23
    I have a number of different logic analyzers.

    Best specs:

    Hantek LA5034, purchased about a year and a half ago for P2 development

    http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_16_16.html

    just over 2K samples, supposed to have RLL compression, which did NOT work for me a year ago, may have new firmware

    Intermediate Price:

    I have a LAP-C 16 with I think 64Mbit sample memory that I order a few months ago, have not really given it a workout yet.

    Good price, use the most:

    SeeedStudio Open Workbench Logic Sniffer

    http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/Open-Workbench-Logic-Sniffer-p-612.html

    EXTREMELY handy & useful. So inexpensive I bought several, now can't live without them.

    Propeller Based - limited sample buffer

    Hanno's ViewPort

    Steve's Propalyzer

    Inexpensive, very limited:

    Saelig 24Msps 8 bit & clones.

    Old school:

    Really old Tektronik, takes up half my workbench, don't use it.

    Jim Fouch wrote: »
    I'm in a market for a new Logic Analyzer.

    I currently have an Intronix LogicPort ( http://www.pctestinstruments.com/ ) I bought like 5-6 years ago and it has served me well. Only issue is it's pretty limited in the amount of samples it can take. It has 2048 samples / channel. For many things it works, but for some others it is way too limited. For example, if you're trying to debug a problem with a SPI bus and the issue is several packets from your trigger point, you are out of luck. There are a few ways to overcome this if you have control of the process that send the data, but if you're trouble shooting a closed system, there is no way.

    I see that Saleae ( https://www.saleae.com/ ) has a new Logic Pro 16 that does not rely on dedicated memory at the device. It uses a USB 3.0 interface to stream data quickly to the PC and then the PC will work with the data. I've heard good things about Saleae, but I'm a bit worried that with out the hardware triggers and such it will limited. I have played with their software in demo mode and it's nice but somewhat basic when it comes to triggers.

    In my search for another hardware based LA I came across this Logiczero ( http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NBYRLM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=RL8MED0OEVIU&coliid=I3GY9Y6PY3LC1Y ) LAP-C 16 channel with 128K points per channel. That like 64 times what I have now. The bandwidth is not as high as my LogicPort, but I don't need 500MHz. I've never heard of Logiczero before, but their software looks pretty powerful for triggering and protocol decoding.

    My budget is right around $500. I know I could get a real nice one for a ton of money, but I don't need all the bells and whistles.

    I'm mostly looking at using this for double checking my software timing on things like the Propeller and PIC 8-bit and 32-bit processors. For interfacing to LCDs and such. I do think I need at least 16 channels, so one of the cheaper 8 channel units from Saleae will not work for my needs.

    Any advice is welcomed.
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