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DNA Can Survive Reentry from Space - Scientific American — Parallax Forums

DNA Can Survive Reentry from Space - Scientific American

Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
edited 2014-12-05 08:50 in General Discussion
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dna-can-survive-reentry-from-space/

Excerpt
In a new study published today in PLOS ONE, a team of Swiss and German scientists report that they dotted the exterior grooves of a rocket with fragments of DNA to test the genetic material’s stability in space. Surprisingly, they discovered that some of those building blocks of life remained intact during the hostile conditions of the flight and could pass on genetic information even after exiting and reentering the atmosphere during a roughly 13-minute round trip into space.

The findings suggest that if DNA traveled through space on meteorites, it could have conceivably survived, says lead author Oliver Ullrich of the University of Zurich. Moreover, he says, “DNA attached to a spacecraft has the potential to contaminate other celestial bodies, making it difficult to determine whether a life form existed on another planet or was introduced there by spacecraft.”

Comments

  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2014-11-29 18:59
    so should we go to the desert (or forest for those who don't live out here), find meteorites and grow what-do-you-call-it ? Some of them could be the next medical break through, just like various sea creatures and plants have been.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-11-29 23:00
    Geez! Didn't these guys watch The Andromeda Strain?
  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2014-11-30 07:03
    we don't mention "PROJECT SCOOP" in public circles anymore.

    Now exactly what do they scrape off the outside of the space station and bring back home during these "fix" projects?
  • Hal AlbachHal Albach Posts: 747
    edited 2014-11-30 08:28
    GrandeNurse wrote: »
    we don't mention "PROJECT SCOOP" in public circles anymore.

    Now exactly what do they scrape off the outside of the space station and bring back home during these "fix" projects?

    Tholian Web?
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-11-30 11:11
    Everyone that saw Steve McQueen debut in "The Blob" knows that DNA can survive a ride on a fiery meteorite. (circa 1958)
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob

    I was a bit sad when the Blob ate the dog, but it was good fun when it ate a whole unsuspecting crowd in a movie theater by dropping off the ceiling.
  • aaron96aaron96 Banned Posts: 1
    edited 2014-12-01 17:02
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    Geez! Didn't these guys watch The Andromeda Strain?

    Haha, so true. But what kind of possibilities(or problems) does this mean for us in the future?
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2014-12-01 21:59
    They were so careful when Apollo 11 returned, but they missed the outside of the spacecraft which had coupled up with the moonlander.
    Seems they need to be incredibly more vigilant with returning samples from Mars/Moon/Comets/etc/etc !!!
  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2014-12-02 08:03
    Look up genetics, specifically how much of our DNA is used and how much is "STUFF". What says through years of evolution that we have not absorbed and are holding a bunch of Martian DNA. Wouldn't that make us more adaptable for other worlds? Isn't DNA the book of your life? How many of you have a large library at home, with books you haven't completely read? Isn't that library "Stuff"?

    Please note RNA differs from DNA. RNA is a copy of a DNA segment, which is the menu for your current meal.
  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2014-12-02 08:12
    In fact, if Parallax released a KIT that allowed you to design, program and nurture a biological robot, would you purchase it? Think about it, all you need to do is feed it, teach it, and have fun with it. OK, the feeding would lead to a cleanup problem, but you could teach it to go to a box near the kitty box. No batteries, self repairable sub assemblies, and an ability to learn and understand. Each new hardware design would have improvements over older systems AND you could keep the older software just in case. OK, maybe keeping lots of old software is like a bunch of "Stuff".
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2014-12-02 08:54
    GrandeNurse wrote: »
    In fact, if Parallax released a KIT that allowed you to design, program and nurture a biological robot, would you purchase it? Think about it, all you need to do is feed it, teach it, and have fun with it. OK, the feeding would lead to a cleanup problem, but you could teach it to go to a box near the kitty box. No batteries, self repairable sub assemblies, and an ability to learn and understand. Each new hardware design would have improvements over older systems AND you could keep the older software just in case. OK, maybe keeping lots of old software is like a bunch of "Stuff".

    I believe that kit is already available. Unfortunately programming them is a bit of a problem. There is no data sheet, compiler or downloading software available.
    Programming them is a lengthy hit and miss procedure.
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2014-12-02 09:26
    A movie tells of a dna story (though the engineer arrive fully intact and 'melt' him self down to particals on earth)

    $8 for dvd+bluray combo
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/prometheus-blu-ray-disc-2-disc/6668044.p?id=2578625&skuId=6668044
    attachment.php?attachmentid=112132&d=1417541532
    PROMETHEUS_WETA_VFX_03.jpg
    500 x 312 - 38K
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-12-03 09:24
    GrandeNurse wrote: »
    In fact, if Parallax released a KIT that allowed you to design, program and nurture a biological robot, would you purchase it? Think about it, all you need to do is feed it, teach it, and have fun with it. OK, the feeding would lead to a cleanup problem, but you could teach it to go to a box near the kitty box. No batteries, self repairable sub assemblies, and an ability to learn and understand. Each new hardware design would have improvements over older systems AND you could keep the older software just in case. OK, maybe keeping lots of old software is like a bunch of "Stuff".

    Feeding, teaching, and cleaning up after -- almost like being married with kids.
    What's the older software? Is it what you cleaned up off the floor or out of the litter box?

    The KITten is certainly already available. But God had a vengeance when he made whatever arrives in the litter box. Phew!

    And don't forget to hydrate the little beast.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-12-03 10:00
    That's the problem with bio hacking.

    Takes ages for your creation to boot up. Then it needs a lot of care and attention whilst it stumbles around making a horrible mess during the learning phase.

    On top of that you would feel really bad just tossing it in the trash whilst getting on with a new improved version that fixes the obvious faults in the previous version.

    To move development towards a proper working version can take years, decades, centuries.

    Nah, just give me some transistors and chips I can blow up! :)
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2014-12-03 12:18
    Heater. wrote: »
    To move development towards a proper working version can take years, decades, centuries.


    Or, perhaps ....

    13.8 billion years?

    You'd think after that much time, things would be sorted out.
  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2014-12-03 15:04
    "loopy" old software would be those routines that you just want to have around to use when things just don't seem correct. DEBUG software, older serial communications protocols, maybe even a parallel transfer method that worked but now you've got a better one. As far as the BIOLOGICs are concerned, they seem to grab "plasmids" from those that just survived the latest virus / germ killer. With the new plasmid they can fight off the newest human-designed-killing-agent (chemical, ...). BUT those little biologics also know to keep a copy of the older software just in case those silly humans try something from the past.

    How much time has expired from the creation of the transistor to the latest FPGA?
    How much time will it take to go from the understanding of DNA to a module compiler?
  • msrobotsmsrobots Posts: 3,709
    edited 2014-12-03 22:49
    GrandeNurse wrote: »
    In fact, if Parallax released a KIT that allowed you to design, program and nurture a biological robot, would you purchase it? Think about it, all you need to do is feed it, teach it, and have fun with it. OK, the feeding would lead to a cleanup problem, but you could teach it to go to a box near the kitty box. No batteries, self repairable sub assemblies, and an ability to learn and understand. Each new hardware design would have improvements over older systems AND you could keep the older software just in case. OK, maybe keeping lots of old software is like a bunch of "Stuff".

    @GrandNurse,

    I am following some other Thread of you with great interest, but do you really think parallax should sell DOGs? Since it is the internet maybe CATs?
    Teaching a cat may be as complicated as putting a robot on top of a ball and then try to drive it over obstacles...

    Having two Irish Wulfhounds I am pretty used to that 'nurture' part of them biological robots. Alas I did not had any influence on the 'design' part as in your requirements.

    And - well - the 'programming' part is a art for itself. Obviously you usually can not really 'reprogram' biological robots. Its more like fuzzy logic, I guess. You need to adjust the external stimulus to get better reactions the next time. Some decades ago I worked with a guy who really did understand how to handle this sort of 'programming'. He told me a lot about fixing damaged biological robots and how to teach them amazing things.

    This guy was even knighted(spelling?) by the Queen of England for taking care of her personal dogs. Funny thing is that most of his advices and technics work with all biological robots, including humans...

    So back to the topic.

    What is new about this? Was this the first proof that DNS/RNA can survive a orbital entry? Do I miss something here? Who had stated it doesn't?

    Is the Panspermia Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia) not a theory anymore, but proven now?

    As far as I am told we have astronauts going into orbit and back for some decades. They do contain DNA/RNA. As far as I know them reentered mostly alive and still containing their own DNA/RNA. Hopefully.

    Sure meteors may heat up more then spaceships while hitting the air, but if they are big them doesn't need to care about this problem. And we had big hits in our history. Still there to look at.

    So what is the 'News' here?

    Confused!

    Mike
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-12-04 00:34
    Pragmatically thinking, if we are concerned with a bit of unusual DNA falling out of the sky, what is the risk of having backyard DIYers across the globe exploring their own unique creations?

    We have spent a pile of money on Rosetta getting samples from a comet. And now, we have Japan going to an asteroid to get samples. Nonetheless these are all within our solar system. There is a quarantine zone of many light years around our solar system, unless the DNA can remain viable for a very long time in very extreme conditions. And even then, there is the actual probability of an object From Outside the solar system hitting Earth.

    So, I am more worried about bio-technologist on Earth destroying the planet.
  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2014-12-04 08:45
    If there was a vendor that sold a KIT, that allowed you to design and make a simple biologic, what would you want to make? A power converter (consumes trash, produces power)? A dense compact trainable neural net? A self repairable sensor?

    What about a wall paint, something that changes color based on temperature / humidity / RF-exposure?
  • Hal AlbachHal Albach Posts: 747
    edited 2014-12-04 09:11
    GrandeNurse wrote: »
    If there was a vendor that sold a KIT, that allowed you to design and make a simple biologic, what would you want to make? A power converter (consumes trash, produces power)? A dense compact trainable neural net? A self repairable sensor?

    What about a wall paint, something that changes color based on temperature / humidity / RF-exposure?

    This is beginning to look like Michael Crighton's 2006 book, "Next" . There were several chapters where DNA and other genetic structures in various animals were manipulated to cause the animal (fish and turtles) to flash commercial logos on their skin or shells. Advertising gone wild?
  • GrandeNurseGrandeNurse Posts: 110
    edited 2014-12-04 12:49
    Ok maybe not paint. If you look into fish tanks you'll notice that there are several natural bacteria that are instrumental in converting urine. The more fish urine, the larger the bacteria colony. The less urine, well some of the bacteria starve and die off.

    What about a culture of bacteria that love to convert smog?

    Sea birds have salt capabilities that the rest of us do not. What about an organism that processes salt water, with a fresh water discharge?

    What is that thing that you need done but is too costly currently?
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2014-12-05 03:58
    GrandeNurse wrote: »
    What is that thing that you need done but is too costly currently?
    Filling up my bank account? That's the primary one, the others are taken care of automatically if that thing could be done first.. :)
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-12-05 08:50
    Hmmm.. a perpetually self-filling bank account? I am getting a Social Security Insurance payment on a monthly basis, but that is not really making the bank account full. How does one determine 'full' for a bank account? One has to control the outflow as well to have a complete equilibrium.

    IOW, greedy.. aren't we?

    Frankly, my biologic creations usually turn up on a dinner plate or in the rot in the trash can. The only manipulation of DNA that I do is to damage my own.
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