Another call to arms... not ARMS

rjo__ · 2014-10-07 22:58

Peter,

I think I have the gist of what you are saying... and I think I have a solution. But since you seem to have given up on your thread... let me invite to a new thread.

First let me describe myself. And with that "context" in mind let me offer a way forward.

Let me first say that I hate all computer languages. I refuse to learn any of them because they all seem to be blind alleys or black holes that I simply don't have time to learn sufficiently. (Applescript isn't a computer language... I like it) Not only do I hate computer languages and vow never to try to learn another one... I personally feel as though the creators of those languages were more interested in tormenting me than in liberating me. I have always spoken well...
but I have never written with correct syntax or grammar. Good enough to get along and make myself understood... but not correct most of the time.

So computer languages with any kind of syntax are incredibly miserable experiences for me.

I love Spin and PASM, because since the Propeller isn't a computer, they aren't computer languages and the only syntax I need to remember is keeping the loops indented correctly. I can do just about anything I want with them... every minute I spend learning more about them brings immediate benefits in a way that is relevant to me.

It sounds to me like Forth is a computer language... so I am not going to discuss Forth... rather I would like to suggest a way for you to enjoy Forth even more than you do now... I know... that is going to be hard to do but if you will follow my lead, that is just what I am going to do.

What is this?

It is the P1V.

The Propeller no longer has 32 I/O's ... at count it has well over 100. So, interfacing to memory no longer eats up pins... and it doesn't take any programming either... you just poke at it. Or if you are really curious you can peek at it (memory that is)

This means you can now run Forth without using any hub ram at all:) And in fact you could run parallel Forth interpreters... a different one from every Cog, with different libraries and connections to the outside world.

I'm not interested in anything that needs Linux to run it. In my mind... what FPGA's need is some way to control them... break them out of their little boxes... they need a P1V and so do you!

Regards,

Rich

Peter Jakacki · 2014-10-07 23:14

rjo__ wrote: »

Peter,

I think I have the gist of what you are saying... and I think I have a solution. But since you seem to have given up on your thread... let me invite to a new thread.
<snip>
Regards,

Rich

As you can see I hadn't given up, just had other things to do while the forum kids barge into my room and mess with my stuff

I keep saying, Forth is not just a language but as you can see from the simpler example I did for the blinky that Forth can be "your language". Nope, you can't really teach anybody your own language but you sure understand what you are saying! So in like manner Forth can be tailored to be a beginners language without taking away any of the power or flexibility that already exists there. Not bad I think.

Ahhh, P1V, yes, I have my DE0, my DE2, my BeMicro CVs etc, but not much time to play with them. However I don't consider these "toys" of any practical use for commercial projects at present. Sure, there may may be a use even for an FPGA version but capable ARM chips are still much cheaper and faster anyway. I can't really see P1V being turned into silicon though, who is going to do that? Parallax will have their P2 as well as their P1, why spend more money competing against yourself?

rjo__ · 2014-10-07 23:24

If you have found a computer language that you like, God bless you. You are way ahead of me.
Every electronic device I own is a toy... So is the P1V. So... you are saying that if we produce a device that will let people with severe macular degeneration read the morning paper...there is no market if it has an FPGA in it?

I am an expert in this particular area and I know that it is possible... please don't argue, contribute.

The nice thing about the FPGA forum is that there are very few experts there... so if you ask a question that is pertinent to Forth, it will be interesting to everyone...
and someone will help.

See what I mean?

Heater. · 2014-10-08 00:01

rjo__

...I hate all computer languages.

Oh yeah. I have often said things to the effect that "all programming languages are horrible". When you are younger a new programming language is a wonderful thing. Often attractive for it's expressive power or simplicity or whatever, a new shiny thing full of hope and promise. Work with it long enough and you find out it's limitations. Soon enough it get's annoying and you start to yearn for the next new great programming language. Smart programmers have felt this many times throughout history and being smart they take matters into their own hands and build Yet Another Fine Programming Language (YAFL). Which in turn goes on to frustrate and annoy the next generation...

Applescript isn't a computer language... I like it

display alert "Hello, world!" buttons {"Rudely decline", "Happily accept"}
set theAnswer to button returned of the result
if theAnswer is "Happily accept" then
    beep 5
else
    say "Piffle!"
end if

Sure looks like a computer programming language to me. Unless you are saying an Apple is not a computer:)

So computer languages with any kind of syntax are incredibly miserable experiences for me.

That would be all of them then. All programming languages, indeed all languages, have syntax. Otherwise all you have a random collection of symbols that is impossible to attach any meaning to. There is a reason why "cat eats fish" has a different meaning than "fish eats cat". And "eats fish cat" is probably rejected as meaningless.

Propeller isn't a computer

What?

...the only syntax I need to remember is keeping the loops indented correctly.

That is cool. Seems you have memorized all the rest of the Spin/PASM syntax without even realizing it.

...there is no market if it has an FPGA in it?

The FPGA is not the point. Things don't have a market if they get too expensive. An FPGA with a Propeller configuration is more expensive than a Propeller or many other MCU solutions. In the case of your vision aids getting the price down will help more visually handicapped people, if you really need the FPGA to do it then so be it, else one should be looking for cheaper alternatives.

Another call to arms... not ARMS

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