How to start with SimpleIDE

David Betz

I just installed SimpleIDE and I'd like to use it for a project I've already started. This project already has a complete collection of .cpp and .h files. All I want to do is create a SimpleIDE project around those files. How do I do that? If I select "New" from the "Project" menu it asks if I want to create a .c or a .cpp file. I don't want to create either. I want to create a project into which I can insert already existing files. Is there a way to do that? I can't even figure out how to open a .cpp file. If I select "Open" under the "Project" menu, all of the .cpp files are greyed out and there doesn't seem to be an entry in the "File" menu for opening a .c or .cpp file. So it seems that "Open" will only open .side files but "New" only creates .c or .cpp files? How do I create a .side file? It seems like that should be done by "New" in the "Project" menu. What am I missing here?

David Betz

David Betz wrote: »

I just installed SimpleIDE and I'd like to use it for a project I've already started. This project already has a complete collection of .cpp and .h files. All I want to do is create a SimpleIDE project around those files. How do I do that? If I select "New" from the "Project" menu it asks if I want to create a .c or a .cpp file. I don't want to create either. I want to create a project into which I can insert already existing files. Is there a way to do that? I can't even figure out how to open a .cpp file. If I select "Open" under the "Project" menu, all of the .cpp files are greyed out and there doesn't seem to be an entry in the "File" menu for opening a .c or .cpp file. So it seems that "Open" will only open .side files but "New" only creates .c or .cpp files? How do I create a .side file? It seems like that should be done by "New" in the "Project" menu. What am I missing here?

Okay, I figured this out for myself. When you select "New" from the "Project" menu, it offers to create either a .c or a .cpp file but behind the scenes it also creates a .side file for the project as a whole. There seems to be no way to create an empty project into which you can import already existing .c or .cpp files. You must create a "top level" file along with the .side project file. Also, there is no way to delete that top level file if you don't actually need it. What I ended up doing was copying the code from my existing top level file into the new one and then deleting the original. That works but it is kind of ugly. Anyway, I got my SimpleIDE project working so I guess we can consider this issues as "resolved".

jazzed

Start with the Parallax tutorials.

The Learn forum is for people following the Parallax tutorials.

David Betz

jazzed wrote: »

Start with the Parallax tutorials.

The Learn forum is for people following the Parallax tutorials.

So "Learn" is not a good place to learn how to use SimpleIDE? I seem to remember being told once that Learn was the place to ask questions about SimpleIDE. Sorry I placed mine in the wrong place. I guess I'll move it to the Propeller forum.

jazzed

David Betz wrote: »

So "Learn" is not a good place to learn how to use SimpleIDE?

It is for those following the tutorials.

David Betz

jazzed wrote: »

It is for those following the tutorials.

Not a particularly friendly or helpful response.

jazzed

I have a choices.

• Discuss the pros/cons of all the different ways to do what you want to do.
• Mention that what you want to do is not what Parallax prefers to do for the Learn program.
• Point out that SimpleIDE is a tool used in the context of the Learn program and point out that the tutorials are the starting point for SimpleIDE.

In retrospect, the answer should be "none of the above".

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

Hi guys, let's move this thread to the Propeller GCC forum. Although it's not technically a GCC topic, it is going to be more suitable for a developer level implementation discussions than here.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

David, if you want to create a C project based on an existing file, right-click to the right of the buttons and enable the File and Miscellaneous menus. After opening the .c file you want to use as your main file, click the Set Project to Current Tab button. Also, click the bottom-left Show/Hide Project manager button. This will give you right-click access to more project file management options. If you have a Spin file with pasm code, put it in the same folder with your main file. Then click Project and select Open Tab to Project. Set the file type to Spin, and finish the dialog. Use Open Tab to Project to add existing files or add Tab to Project to add new files. This applies to .c, .cpp. spin, etc.

prof_braino

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

David, if you want to create a C project based on an existing file, right-click to the right of the buttons and enable the File and Miscellaneous menus. After opening the .c file you want to use as your main file, click the Set Project to Current Tab button. Also, click the bottom-left Show/Hide Project manager button. This will give you right-click access to more project file management options. If you have a Spin file with pasm code, put it in the same folder with your main file. Then click Project and select Open Tab to Project. Set the file type to Spin, and finish the dialog. Use Open Tab to Project to add existing files or add Tab to Project to add new files. This applies to .c, .cpp. spin, etc.

If what you said answers the question, then what you said should maybe be in the instructions.

If one person has this question, then many people will have the same question.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

Yes, this is one of the ways we track what needs to be documented. These features are documented in in Help -> SimpleIDE User Guide (PDF), and an example of doing this is scheduled for part 2 of the Library Studies tutorial on the Learn site. Tutorials have been developed for audiences at the base of the pyramid and we have been adding them working upwards.

Dave Hein

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

David, if you want to create a C project based on an existing file, right-click to the right of the buttons and enable the File and Miscellaneous menus. After opening the .c file you want to use as your main file, click the Set Project to Current Tab button. Also, click the bottom-left Show/Hide Project manager button. This will give you right-click access to more project file management options. If you have a Spin file with pasm code, put it in the same folder with your main file. Then click Project and select Open Tab to Project. Set the file type to Spin, and finish the dialog. Use Open Tab to Project to add existing files or add Tab to Project to add new files. This applies to .c, .cpp. spin, etc.

Andy, it took me a while to figure out your instructions, but I was able to get it to work. It seems like the functions that are available from the icons should also be in the drop down menus for "File" and "Project". I should be able to open a file from the "File" menu, and I should be able to "Set Project to Current Tab" from the "Project" menu.

David Betz

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

David, if you want to create a C project based on an existing file, right-click to the right of the buttons and enable the File and Miscellaneous menus. After opening the .c file you want to use as your main file, click the Set Project to Current Tab button. Also, click the bottom-left Show/Hide Project manager button. This will give you right-click access to more project file management options. If you have a Spin file with pasm code, put it in the same folder with your main file. Then click Project and select Open Tab to Project. Set the file type to Spin, and finish the dialog. Use Open Tab to Project to add existing files or add Tab to Project to add new files. This applies to .c, .cpp. spin, etc.

Thanks. That answers my question.

David Betz

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

Hi guys, let's move this thread to the Propeller GCC forum. Although it's not technically a GCC topic, it is going to be more suitable for a developer level implementation discussions than here.

Is there a place where it is appropriate to ask questions about how to use SimpleIDE outside of the context of the Learn Tutorials? This isn't really an internal design question it's more of a "how do I use this tool to get something done" question. Since SimpleIDE is the official IDE for C/C++ programming from Parallax then it seems like there should be a place where you can go to ask a question about it without being told that it's off topic. I assume you're interested in attracting experienced C/C++ users as well as those just trying to learn the language, no? What is the appropriate support forum for SImpleIDE?

Heater.

Yep, the normal Propeller 1 forum I guess. Why not? A user of a Propeller and C may well be wanting to use the Parallax sponsored SimpleIDE. What better place.

Seems SimpleIDE became "ComplexIDE" at some point.

Bill Henning

+1

I think it may be time to add a SimpleIDE forum (or sub-forum)

David Betz wrote: »

Is there a place where it is appropriate to ask questions about how to use SimpleIDE outside of the context of the Learn Tutorials? This isn't really an internal design question it's more of a "how do I use this tool to get something done" question. Since SimpleIDE is the official IDE for C/C++ programming from Parallax then it seems like there should be a place where you can go to ask a question about it without being told that it's off topic. I assume you're interested in attracting experienced C/C++ users as well as those just trying to learn the language, no? What is the appropriate support forum for SImpleIDE?

Rsadeika

Maybe it's time for a ComplexIDE, the SimpleIDE could be used by the beginners, and the ComplexIDE could be used by the more experienced people without the hassle of the default "simple project manager" getting in the way. Then we could have a ComplexIDE forum for attracting more experienced users.

Ray

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

Rsadeika wrote: »

Maybe it's time for a ComplexIDE, the SimpleIDE could be used by the beginners, and the ComplexIDE could be used by the more experienced people without the hassle of the default "simple project manager" getting in the way. Then we could have a ComplexIDE forum for attracting more experienced users.

Ray

SimpleIDE has a Project View, which I think might suffice. In v0.9.64 and newer, you enable it with Tools -> Properties -> General, and click the Projects checkbox, and then OK button. Next, click Tools -> Set Project View.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

David Betz wrote: »

Is there a place where it is appropriate to ask questions about how to use SimpleIDE outside of the context of the Learn Tutorials? This isn't really an internal design question it's more of a "how do I use this tool to get something done" question. Since SimpleIDE is the official IDE for C/C++ programming from Parallax then it seems like there should be a place where you can go to ask a question about it without being told that it's off topic. I assume you're interested in attracting experienced C/C++ users as well as those just trying to learn the language, no? What is the appropriate support forum for SImpleIDE?

There will be a certain number of people like that entering through Propeller 1 and others through Learn. I suppose it would have been better leaving it where it was. It's just that it looked like a developer level discussion.

David Betz

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

There will be a certain number of people like that entering through Propeller 1 and others through Learn. I suppose it would have been better leaving it where it was. It's just that it looked like a developer level discussion.

Aren't the people in Learn also developers in the sense that they are using SimpleIDE to develop software? Now it may be that they're developing software in response to an assignment they've received in a class but they still have the same basic needs as anyone who is trying to write software in C or C++ for the Propeller using official Parallax tools.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

Dave Hein wrote: »

Andy, it took me a while to figure out your instructions, but I was able to get it to work. It seems like the functions that are available from the icons should also be in the drop down menus for "File" and "Project". I should be able to open a file from the "File" menu, and I should be able to "Set Project to Current Tab" from the "Project" menu.

Okay, so if the buttons appear on the bar, they should also appear in the menus. Fair enough. Would you be willing to add that here? https://code.google.com/p/propside/issues/list

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

David Betz wrote: »

Aren't the people in Learn also developers in the sense that they are using SimpleIDE to develop software? Now it may be that they're developing software in response to an assignment they've received in a class but they still have the same basic needs as anyone who is trying to write software in C or C++ for the Propeller using official Parallax tools.

Sure, but that did not appear to be the direction this discussion was going.

David Betz

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

Sure, but that did not appear to be the direction this discussion was going.

I think all I asked originally was how to create a project with an already existing set of source files. I also mentioned that I was confused by the "project" vs. "file" terminology. If I select "New" to create a new project, I'm asked whether I want to create a .c or a .cpp file but when I ask to open an existing project I'm only offered .side files. Seems inconsistent to me and I was trying to understand the underlying model. You can wrote tutorial materials that step people through specific tasks but eventually they need to be able to use the tools for their own tasks. At that point, I think the best way to avoid confusing them is to have tools that operate consistently with an understandable underlying model.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

David Betz wrote: »

I think all I asked originally was how to create a project with an already existing set of source files. I also mentioned that I was confused by the "project" vs. "file" terminology. If I select "New" to create a new project, I'm asked whether I want to create a .c or a .cpp file but when I ask to open an existing project I'm only offered .side files. Seems inconsistent to me and I was trying to understand the underlying model. You can wrote tutorial materials that step people through specific tasks but eventually they need to be able to use the tools for their own tasks. At that point, I think the best way to avoid confusing them is to have tools that operate consistently with an understandable underlying model.

Project -> New creates a .side file with project settings. Your main file for the project can be .c or .cpp. The project settings for which compiler gets used will be set accordingly in the .side file.

David Betz

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

Project -> New creates a .side file with project settings. Your main file for the project can be .c or .cpp. The project settings for which compiler gets used will be set accordingly.

Yes but the problem I had was that I already had all of the source files. I didn't need to create either a .c or a .cpp file. I just needed to create a .side file. By the way, does SimpleIDE support mixing C and C++ in the same project? I don't need to do that myself but it is certainly legal and someone might want to do it if they're writing a C++ program but want to make use of some C code as well.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

David Betz wrote: »

Yes but the problem I had was that I already had all of the source files. I didn't need to create either a .c or a .cpp file. I just needed to create a .side file. By the way, does SimpleIDE support mixing C and C++ in the same project? I don't need to do that myself but it is certainly legal and someone might want to do it if they're writing a C++ program but want to make use of some C code as well.

We already discussed two ways of doing that. If you would prefer an open project with existing file set feature, go ahead and document how you would like this enhancement to work, and post it to the repository. https://code.google.com/p/propside/issues/list

If you use the C++ compiler, it'll compile all the files.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

David, what system have you been using up till now with the Propeller? If you start with a set of .c files, what procedure do you use to make it work in that system?

David Betz

Andy Lindsay (Parallax) wrote: »

We already discussed two ways of doing that. If you would prefer an open project with existing file set feature, go ahead and document how you would like this enhancement to work, and post it to the repository. https://code.google.com/p/propside/issues/list

If you use the C++ compiler, it'll compile all the files.

I'll look into it. It might be as simple as just having a checkbox on the new project dialog that says whether to create the initial .c or .cpp file. That box would be checked by default but could be unchecked for cases like mine. Anyway, thanks for your reply. I ended up just copying my original top-level file into the one created by SimpleIDE. That worked. By the way, another thing that surprised me is that you can't delete the file created automatically by SimpleIDE. You can delete any other file in the project but not the original one. And, if you try to delete it, you don't even get an error dialog saying it isn't allowed.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

Hmm, sounds like another good one for the issues list. Thanks for mentioning it.

Rsadeika

I remember back a few revisions ago where you could 'open' a xxxx.c or xxxx.cpp file and then there was an icon that would of created a .side project from the file. Once that was created then you could add more files to the new project. Now, my memory of that could be a dream, but I think something like was available, somewhere along the line that icon disappeared and now you have a project with a main C file that is automatically created. Maybe something like that missing icon should be re-implemented for the project version, for the more experienced users of course.

Ray

David Betz

Rsadeika wrote: »

I remember back a few revisions ago where you could 'open' a xxxx.c or xxxx.cpp file and then there was an icon that would of created a .side project from the file. Once that was created then you could add more files to the new project. Now, my memory of that could be a dream, but I think something like was available, somewhere along the line that icon disappeared and now you have a project with a main C file that is automatically created. Maybe something like that missing icon should be re-implemented for the project version, for the more experienced users of course.

Ray

I think that feature still exists but it is turned off by default. Andy mentioned how to turn it back on but I haven't tried it since I had already solved the problem by the time I saw his message.