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World Maker Faire New York 2014 — Parallax Forums

World Maker Faire New York 2014

LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
edited 2014-09-21 10:11 in General Discussion
http://makerfaire.com/new-york-2014/call-for-makers/

There don't appear to be any projects based on Parallax products, but I could be wrong.

Comments

  • ValeTValeT Posts: 308
    edited 2014-09-04 04:24
    World Maker Faire usually has a couple of projects based on Parallax components. If only I had the chance to go see if their were any projects....
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-04 11:29
    Thanks for bringing that up Leon. I have been going for the last 4 years, as it's only an hour from me. Thank goodness it's on the weekend as it's in New York City. :)

    Parallax was there four and three years ago. They indicated to me at least, it's not profitable to do a booth there. I'm sure they have a west coast presence at the Fairs.

    Looking forward to see more Propeller based projects, and the 3D printers.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-09-04 11:54
    I always felt uneasy about this "Maker movement" thing.

    Back in the day everyone was a "maker". My father was building radios in the 1930's because if you wanted to listen to the radio and did not have the money that is what you did. A bit later people were building TV's for the same reasons. In the early 1970's I was building calculators and digital clocks for the same reasons. In the late 1970's people were building their own computers with the new fangled microprocessors.

    But, hey, when I was a kid every home had a sewing machine and every husband knew how to fix the house and the car and whatever.

    And what about the generations of guys doing actual engineering with real machines like lathes and mills at home? And the amateur radio guys? And that a lot of science and technology we have was kicked off in garages?

    Humans have been "makers" since forever.

    The "Maker movement" makes it sound like this is a whole new idea. Like "Hey, you can do interesting stuff instead of watching TV or playing video games".

    But then I found out what is going on. Just check the list of sponsors. This is "Disney Land" maker stuff.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-04 13:09
    Heater. wrote: »
    I always felt uneasy about this "Maker movement" thing.

    Back in the day everyone was a "maker". My father was building radios in the 1930's because if you wanted to listen to the radio and did not have the money that is what you did. A bit later people were building TV's for the same reasons. In the early 1970's I was building calculators and digital clocks for the same reasons. In the late 1970's people were building their own computers with the new fangled microprocessors.

    But, hey, when I was a kid every home had a sewing machine and every husband knew how to fix the house and the car and whatever.

    And what about the generations of guys doing actual engineering with real machines like lathes and mills at home? And the amateur radio guys? And that a lot of science and technology we have was kicked off in garages?

    Humans have been "makers" since forever.

    The "Maker movement" makes it sound like this is a whole new idea. Like "Hey, you can do interesting stuff instead of watching TV or playing video games".

    But then I found out what is going on. Just check the list of sponsors. This is "Disney Land" maker stuff.

    I own two sewing machine, and use them all the time. :)

    Today it's Arduio this Arduino that at the Faires. That's good for me as I can go through the complex pretty quickly just sorting out some of the new comers, and some of the high end stuff. 3D printers are always nice to watch. Still can't see a use as the people I work with need 24' x 24" x 24" sculptures. Clay all the way.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2014-09-04 14:45
    Leon wrote: »
    http://makerfaire.com/new-york-2014/call-for-makers/

    There don't appear to be any projects based on Parallax products, but I could be wrong.

    Nah, no Parallax products anywhere. Not a single Parallax product to be seen anywhere at a Maker Faire. Nothing, zip, nada, nichts! :)

    Seriously, the reason we are not attending is because these are happening all the time, everywhere. When you combine a trip to NYC with our Fall trips to the PLTW Summit in Indianapolis, Educator's Courses in Iowa and Rocklin, distributors in Europe and a very busy product development process we simply can't attend all of these events.

    While an exhibit at Maker Faire NYC is productive, it's a $30,000 expense. It takes a week or more of key people to go to the Faire, so there's an opportunity cost that prevents them from doing other things you also want from Parallax. Right now we're also saving for bigger things you can probably imagine quite well.

    We support the Maker movement.

    Ken Gracey
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-04 15:01
    Ken,

    I have about 20 catalogs left over from the Boston Expo that are going to find their way into strategic areas of Makers. :)

    Jim
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,108
    edited 2014-09-04 15:42
    The "Maker movement" makes it sound like this is a whole new idea.


    Indeed. I read a quote in Make that stated it was the Arduino that enabled the "maker movement" -- I scoffed loudly (though no one was around to appreciate my disgust at the assertion). Make has a financial stake in the Arduino hence most of its editors are blind to the Propeller or anything else.

    Dare I say that without the BASIC Stamp there may never have been an Arduino.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2014-09-04 16:08
    Some people feel they've been labeled a Maker by cattle branding iron, though we've been building all kinds of things for many years before it was popular. I certainly understand.

    Ken Gracey
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-04 16:12
    JonnyMac wrote: »
    Indeed. I read a quote in Make that stated it was the Arduino that enabled the "maker movement" -- I scoffed loudly (though no one was around to appreciate my disgust at the assertion). Make has a financial stake in the Arduino hence most of its editors are blind to the Propeller or anything else.

    Dare I say that without the BASIC Stamp there may never have been an Arduino.

    I might add that you and Bean, and the SX were a driving force also.
  • ZootZoot Posts: 2,227
    edited 2014-09-04 16:12
    Well, as member of the Board of Directors of the Albuquerque Mini Maker Faire, and as a longtime Parallax customer, and given that Parallax has graciously supported us with Scribbler soldering kits, I find the tone of this a bit distasteful. Must this really come down to Arduino vs. whatever, again? Would this page (or others that seem to bash certain approaches) seem at all welcoming to an Arduino user, or someone who participates in "Make" activities?

    Here's my own perspective on Make and the Maker Movement. Back in the day, say the late 70s or early 80s, me and my pseudo-delinquent, but geeked-out friends would gather at the local Radio Shack and cadge time on the computers. We would make cash deals for cheap returned parts. It was our de-facto techno-tinkering-clubhouse.

    Now, if sent my own young children off to some commercial establishment for the whole day to spend hours and hours unsupervised with a 25 year-old male, fiddling with stuff that nobody even understands, people would say I was taking a real risk. Of course, in my case, we have a shop and electronics lab here, but what if your parents are NOT tinkerers? What if they don't use power tools? Or use the computer for anything other than web surfing and email? Where would you go to do all that?

    Even if the school(s) offer these programs, you know what? It's not the same -- what inspires adults and young people alike is having unsupervised, unstructured time in a creative environment where there is expertise if you need it.

    Make and the maker/hacker spaces were really a response to this void. And yes, they are a big company (now) that wants to make money. Regardless, what has happened has been a profound tightening and fostering of the community of makers, tinkerers, professional engineers and machinists, etc. Many Mini Maker Faires are essentially outgrowths of group activity at the local maker/hacker space. I see no difference between this and the Unofficial Propeller Expos or the Official Propeller Expos (though I might argue that Maker Faires are broader).

    At our own Faire, it is often the first time a visitor has ever held or used a soldering iron. The first time they have actually seen a 3-D printer in action. The first time they have been taught how to use a sewing machine, cut fabric or bleach-stencil a design. The first time they have seen an art car in person. We were fortunate enough to have Christian Ristow's "Hand of Man" at our Faire last year -- visitors were able to operate it (Google it -- it's mind boggling).

    Our partners do include commercial interests. In particular, Intel, which has a fab in our part of the valley, has been very supportive financially. But our partners also include the local municipalities, media outlets, service organizations like the Girl Scouts, locally-owned and -operated businesses like Levitated Toy Factory (the new company started by the founder of Etsy) and so forth. And the crew and "staff" is all volunteer.

    For all the possible pitfalls of dealing with commercial interests, Make Media provides some crucial uniformity and, to be frank, a minimum set of standards. If anybody has heard about a "Maker Faire" they have some idea of what to expect. It could burn you, hurt you, but probably not. You will get "hands on". You will build stuff. They also require us to carry proper liability insurance, carry out feedback surveys, and other tasks that seem mundane, but ensure that big trouble does not ensue.

    To come back to the beginning -- if you want to see more Prop or Stamp projects, then build them and go show them off at a Maker Faire. The DEFCON badges caused a big stir throughout the Maker grapevine, btw.

    (And our own EL wire / LED sign display this year, is of course, running a beloved Parallax SX28 -- nobody has yet asked what micro is in the thing -- they know there is a micro, and they "get it" and that's about all they have to say.)
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-04 16:19
    Well said Zoot.

    Sometimes it's just getting the young ones in to show them the things that can be done. It's up to them to chose their tools. And there many available.
  • ZootZoot Posts: 2,227
    edited 2014-09-04 16:43
    If these things happened other ways, then maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation. And it's not just the kids. I've seen some of these learning experiences be absolutely transformative for adults.

    Certainly, if the "branded" aspect of Make and the Maker Faires is bothersome, get involved with, or start up, a local hacker/maker space.
  • Little-endianLittle-endian Posts: 91
    edited 2014-09-18 11:33
    I'll be there on Saturday. Looking forward to it. This will be my second year attending. Sorry to hear Parallax will not be there.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-09-18 12:10
    Leon wrote: »
    http://makerfaire.com/new-york-2014/call-for-makers/

    There don't appear to be any projects based on Parallax products, but I could be wrong.

    In my own experience, I saw small construction contractors thrive in niche markets in boom times, but when the economy turned sour, bigger and more capital rich contractors came into the smaller specialty markets to keep their businesses going and the small business suffered more deeply.

    Something similar is what Maker is about. Big capital heavy semiconductor enterprises pretty much disdained what Parallax was doing as they desired to sell tens of thousands if not more chips in one sale. Selling boards for learning was priced extremely high and there wasn't much flexibility in exploring use.

    That simply has changed as 'Big capital' began to see that they needed smaller sales to keep up cash flow. Arduino was a god send to them and Maker is a pretty much has become a sophisticated publishing/marketing division. Boundaries of ideas, such as open-source and community-oriented non-porfit have just become Trojan horses.

    It some ways it cuts into Parallax revenue and makes it tougher to survive. But also, we now have a huge choice in cheap senor, interface, and add-on boards the helps Propeller users afford to explore and enjoy what they desire to do. So it is pretty much about taking the good, along with the rest.

    I previously studied PICs from Microchip as well as BasicStamps and have looked at AVRs in comparison to Propellers. In both cases, it just seemed that Parallax offered a lot of hidden value. Arduino may have eroded some of that. And I tend to dislike the invasion of 'Big Capital' into an area that a small business enterprise has contributed a great deal that 'Big Capital' previously chose to ignore. But the reality is Arduino is here and likely here to stay.

    Many of us can remember preferring to buy Hydrox cookies over Oreo for their better flavor. It too was a smaller niche enterprise that did what it did better than Oreo. But now Hydrox is no more, and Oreos seem to now taste like Hydrox. Why? The dark side of big capital had its way.

    The simple fact is the business world can be very predatory of the successes of smaller enterprises (Didn't Microsoft just buy Minecraft for 2.5 billion after buying Nokia and laying off a big chunk of their workforce?).

    That is the world we live in. I can only hope that Parallax either sells out to Big Capital for a very rewarding sum, or quits business while they are ahead of the game and have enough set aside to provide for their own comfort. It really isn't worth becoming a lost cause just because you love your customers and employees.

    But in the back of my mind, I really hope Parallax hits another home run with Propeller Two and is around for quite awhile. Blows against the empire afford a great deal of pleasure to those of us that feel fair play should always win out.
  • Little-endianLittle-endian Posts: 91
    edited 2014-09-18 14:37
    Sorry for going OT, but I had to look this one up to learn more about Hydrox cookies and their history. Hydrox cookies will be available once again at the end of the year. What timing!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-18 14:59


    That is the world we live in. I can only hope that Parallax either sells out to Big Capital for a very rewarding sum, or quits business while they are ahead of the game and have enough set aside to provide for their own comfort. It really isn't worth becoming a lost cause just because you love your customers and employees.

    But in the back of my mind, I really hope Parallax hits another home run with Propeller Two and is around for quite awhile. Blows against the empire afford a great deal of pleasure to those of us that feel fair play should always win out.

    Please stay on topic about MakerFaire New York . The post you made had no relevance to the OP.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-09-18 15:06
    Loopy, I wouldn't hold out MakerFaire as a barometer of underlying technology. While I'm sure Atmel appreciates the income it makes off of AVRs mounted on Arduinos, it's lunch money to them. They sell something on the order of a billion dollars a year in MCUs. Exactly how many Arduinos do you think they put out each month?! Even if it's 100K, which it's not, you're talking roughly 0.1% of Atmel's annual take.

    Hydrox was a brand of a company that was sold, which in turn was sold again. And during all this, Oreo came out with a Kosher version, vastly reducing one of the reasons Hydrox remained popular in some households. None of this had a thing to do with "big capital." It's not like Sunshine was a tiny bakery when Keebler bought them out. Or that Keebler was an infant little corporation when Kelloggs bought them out, then decided to deprive people of their favorite cookie just because they're an evil empire. It was big capital all along.

    There's no amount of revisionist history that can erase the fact that the Arduino was created in some garage in Italy by a bunch of teachers. Big business/capital had zip to do with it.

    Now, there are completely separate reasons Parallax is not in a higher position relative to Arduino. I believe in the last two years, and the last year especially, they've done a tremendous amount to address this problem. It takes time to turn a tide, but I'm seeing signs of it already. Not being in NYC this time around won't affect this upswing. I think the demonstration of the efforts are and will be felt elsewhere.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-09-18 17:18
    "New York City", "That really chaps my hide".
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-09-19 01:04
    Publison wrote: »
    Please stay on topic about MakerFaire New York . The post you made had no relevance to the OP.

    Okay, fair enough... all postings should be relevant to the OP, and not to secondary or tertiary assertions introduced by others. I got the impression that MakerFaire/Make was beginning to exclude products outside of its own publishing sphere. Everything they publish in Chinese that is on the book shelves in Taiwan omits Parallax.

    Hydrox was just one salient example of many corporate contests to squash smaller but better products. Not intended to open another topic as much as to provide an example of how the biggest wield their might.
  • Little-endianLittle-endian Posts: 91
    edited 2014-09-19 08:39
    I can confirm that there were a handful of Parallax products available for purchase in the MakerShed at last year's event in NYC. I'll be on the lookout for Parallax products at this year's event including those in the MakerShed as well as those incorporated in projects on display.
  • Kyle M.Kyle M. Posts: 112
    edited 2014-09-20 18:55
    I'll actually be at exhibiting at the Faire tomorrow (Sunday). I'm exhibiting some of my multirotor creations (including the ELEV-8 v2, and a custom-built hexacopter) and other projects (including a pumpkin throwing trebuchet) with #BucknellMakers (Bucknell University). I'll be at the booth on-and-off throughout the day. Note that my exhibiting has NOofficial ties to or relationship with Parallax Inc. Hope to maybe see some of you there!
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-21 10:11
    Kyle M. wrote: »
    I'll actually be at exhibiting at the Faire tomorrow (Sunday). I'm exhibiting some of my multirotor creations (including the ELEV-8 v2, and a custom-built hexacopter) and other projects (including a pumpkin throwing trebuchet) with #BucknellMakers (Bucknell University). I'll be at the booth on-and-off throughout the day. Note that my exhibiting has NOofficial ties to or relationship with Parallax Inc. Hope to maybe see some of you there!

    Kyle,

    It would have been fun to meet up with you today, but my schedule did not allow any travel this weekend.

    Good luck with the presentations!

    Jim
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