Parallax.com frustration
localroger
Posts: 3,451
OK, I don't go to parallax.com too often unless I need to buy something. But tonight I wanted to try the sample code that was posted for the Seeed Studio 2.8 inch display Radio Shack discounted, now that I have my Prop ASC, and I realized I have SimpleIDE on my computer at work but not at home. So I went over to download it.
First thing, wasn't there once a separate website parallaxsemiconductor.com for Propeller stuff? I seem to recall having to go there last time I downloaded the C stuff. Now it redirects to the parallax.com Propeller page.
Which in turn has links to the recently released FPGA design files, the obex, the items for sale page, the eval and dev boards page, and the sales office. No downloads.
So back to plain old parallax.com. On the top bar there's Microcontrollers, which hovers down to a Propeller tag, which offers Open Source (the FPGA stuff), OEM (which I'm not), and Customer Success. Not Helpful.
Further to the right Support hovers down to a list that includes "Propeller Tool," which would be great if I didn't already have it but I need the C dev system. Where is it?
In the left product window I can click on Microcontrollers, which drops open a Propeller tab, which brings me to all the products tagged Propeller. In general frustration I try a random product, the Activity Board, which offers a link to the "Propeller C Learning System," which is yet another product I don't need, but at last on this page there is finally a link to the SimpleIDE software page which has download links for the various operating systems.
Now, given that the Propeller is kind of a flagship product for Parallax, why isn't there a common page with ALL the downloads for it, like the manual and datasheet and both the proptool and SimpleIDE? (Didn't this exist once?) And linkable from some easily found place, such as that "propeller" link under Microcontrollers on the top bar on the webpage?
First thing, wasn't there once a separate website parallaxsemiconductor.com for Propeller stuff? I seem to recall having to go there last time I downloaded the C stuff. Now it redirects to the parallax.com Propeller page.
Which in turn has links to the recently released FPGA design files, the obex, the items for sale page, the eval and dev boards page, and the sales office. No downloads.
So back to plain old parallax.com. On the top bar there's Microcontrollers, which hovers down to a Propeller tag, which offers Open Source (the FPGA stuff), OEM (which I'm not), and Customer Success. Not Helpful.
Further to the right Support hovers down to a list that includes "Propeller Tool," which would be great if I didn't already have it but I need the C dev system. Where is it?
In the left product window I can click on Microcontrollers, which drops open a Propeller tab, which brings me to all the products tagged Propeller. In general frustration I try a random product, the Activity Board, which offers a link to the "Propeller C Learning System," which is yet another product I don't need, but at last on this page there is finally a link to the SimpleIDE software page which has download links for the various operating systems.
Now, given that the Propeller is kind of a flagship product for Parallax, why isn't there a common page with ALL the downloads for it, like the manual and datasheet and both the proptool and SimpleIDE? (Didn't this exist once?) And linkable from some easily found place, such as that "propeller" link under Microcontrollers on the top bar on the webpage?
Comments
Hey localroger! We'll take this one by one.
- Parallax used to host www.parallaxsemiconductor.com but we moved it all over to our main domain. Please see this for an explanation http://www.parallax.com/news/2014-04-18/parallax-semiconductor-merger-parallaxsemiconductorcom-returns-flock. In short, it's easier to maintain a single web site. This brought some new problems by putting the downloads from a single page across several "products".
- SimpleIDE and the C resources are on learn.parallax.com, as Mike noted.
- There is not a common page with all downloads for Propeller. Perhaps there should be, as you suggested, but such a page would be really long. Generally, with this site, you find the downloads one of two ways: (a) with the product most closely associated with the download - like a Propeller Chip or (b) using Google. This last suggestion of using Google is an important one. Their tools are better than ours, obviously.
- Propeller is a flagship, but so is our educational line. We truly end up splitting resources, sometimes trying to be everything to everybody. We need to support primary school teachers and product designers at the same time. This often makes it difficult to make every group 100% happy with the same web site. For example, today, a group of Iowa primary school teachers quickly found what they needed (the S2 GUI) on the product page but you struggled with finding the tool you needed because it's not so clearly associated with any single product (but a whole bunch of them instead).
Today we held a company meeting about our 2014/2015 efforts. It almost seems like you had bugged our meeting room and were eavesdropping the whole time. We know we have the problem you pointed out. Parallax.com is largely designed as an e-commerce site and the inclusion of downloads is product-driven. It's not the best way and we're looking at options for making easier access to the downloads people most commonly seek. On the outside, we can easily seem like a bunch of ding-dongs that really don't know how to deliver what you want, the way you want it, but it's a little more complicated than simply changing it to be the way people want it to be. We have lots of competing interests for our precious resources so we frequently deal with trade-offs that mean we can improve one thing but not something else.Your comment is noted and will be discussed internally next Tuesday, as it was today.
Ken Gracey
It is this type of interaction with your customers that sets Parallax not only apart but miles ahead of many, many other companies of all sizes, with your continuing upfront explanations and commitment to improving all our experiences with Parallax, its products and excellent staff.
I thought I was the only one?!
I feel there is some important information missing that could/can help others. Using the site only with links, and acting as a beginner (student, hobbyist, etc..) I could not find anything about application notes, nor anything about “Spin Zone” columns. Starting on the Propeller BOE page, there is nothing that would give me a clue there are those kinds of resources available. Same thing on Learn.Parallax.com . If A beginner does not know the information is there, how can he/she use it?
TC
Spin Zone columns are here http://www.parallax.com/downloads/propeller-spin-zone-articles-and-code but we have not added the last four years. Bottom line: we're not doing much printed advertising with Nuts and Volts so I'm not comfortable asking to reprint the columns.
Propeller Application notes using Spin/ASM are here http://www.parallax.com/downloads?title_1=an0.
But yes, you are correct that a newcomer is greeting with lots of information but not a consolidated start. We could really use a "start here" landing page to clarify. This winter we plan on releasing a kit that makes the starting point very clear, but in the meantime we'll add this to our web planning discussion.
Ken Gracey
Start with links to the downloads on Learn in the Downloads & Documentation panel of the product pages. That's where people will think they are. How do I know this? I had the same issue a couple months ago when I began a new robot series for a magazine. In short, I didn't find the organization useful, and I was a little dismayed that links to collect up everything seemed sprinkled about.
While the page for the Activity Board does link to the downloads, the nature of those fancy "accordion panels" means that when you've clicked on where you think the downloads should be -- the tab that actually has the word "Downloads" in it -- the rest is hidden. Those accordions are a handy way to present lots of info on a page, but it's important to keep in minds their limitations.
It's true that the link to Learn, and by extension SimpleIDE, is also listed under Additional Resources, though there's nothing "additional" about the core toolset needed to program the thing.
This brings up the other problem, in my less than humble view, that all the links to the toolset (wrongly IMO) suggest a single purpose for this board, to learn Propeller C. As in, it's not useful for anything else. Remember it's human psychology to think in exclusion. Now, I understand this is a product with a focused primary market for the company. But the fact that both Roger and I wandered about on the site looking for the tools we've been hearing about should say something. (And I had the benefit of already being familiar with the Learn site. So I knew where the downloads were, but like most customers, I *also* expected direct links on the product pages. )
How difficult would it be to have a link that says 'Download the SimpleIDE Software,' and another for 'Download the SimpleTools Library.' The links can still go to the Learn site for the actual download button, though I'd recommend re-engineering those pages so said buttons are very clearly noted, preferably with a button that says "DOWNLOAD." I'd avoid obfuscating it as an easy-to-miss text link under a section called "Stay Current."
The emphasis on leveraging Propeller C is notable, except I think that the emphasis is the point of being non-helpful. For example, on the PAB page there's this link for:
"More Propeller C Friendly Parallax Products"
which suggests (remember the psychology of exclusion) there are many more Parallax products not on friendly terms with Prop C. The products on this page are ones that simply are part of a tutorial for Prop C. The link could easily say "Parallax Products Featured in Our Propeller C Tutorials," which then gives no room for people to make snide comments.
The above is simply one curmudgeon's opinions. Probably best not to take it too seriously.
Please try to post these types of threads here rather than in General, so that we can more easily locate the comments we need to address internally.
Great to have Courtney take a look at this thread. Along with Jen and Bump, she's got experience with how our web site functions and how we might be able to incorporate these suggestions.
Ken Gracey
These sorts of suggestions are easy to find on the forums. You just need to click on the correct sub forum, select and expand the proper thread (often with a formal title like "Help!!" or "so frustrating"). Paste the forum link URL into Google: search and use your exact keywords for the suggestions you want to download. Each section of difficulty finding documents is linked to the said product that the user is having problems finding. Simple right?
Hey Courtney!
I also have trouble finding things and I also preferred how before I could scroll through the product page and see everything at once. (I'm not a fan of the click this document that then takes me not to the document or code, but to a different page that I then have to read (make sure it's the same/ correct document) and then click again to open the download folder and then. Searching for things takes longer because if you go back, the page resets so you have to click on the download section to expand it again and sometimes you have to scroll your window..... It get's old after a while...
Dave
I pegged you as a maple covered donut or apple fritter kind of guy.
My rule of thumb is: don't eat things that look like hockey pucks. A cow pattie (apple fritter) is okay. Wholesome goodness there!