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Possible fix for Arlo, MadeUSA, and Eddie flat tires... — Parallax Forums

Possible fix for Arlo, MadeUSA, and Eddie flat tires...

RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
edited 2014-08-13 07:48 in Robotics
I really like the Parallax wheel kit and (Arlo, MadeUSA, Eddie) base but I dislike having to add air to the tires. It looks like there are some options in add an insert in the tire so that they would never go flat again:

http://www.mobilitydirect.com/Flat_Free_Insert_6_x_1_1_4_p/tq290611.htm

and

http://www.allegromedical.com//wheelchair-accessories-c545/6-pneumatic-tube-p214436.html?engine=froogle&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=feed&CS_003=9164468&CS_010=8ab281020bb66dff010bb69aa6bb7018&gclid=CjwKEAjwgYKfBRDvgJeylem9xDUSJACjeQ7AfZkSruqLp0y-b_Ql9S3IMDoEheYFkKpI0MvdCq7DrBoCAQDw_wcB&kwid=productads-plaid^75263076373-sku^TAG173000@ADL1EA@ADL4ALLEGRO-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^49828912693#TAG173000_EA

Another option is a solid urethane tire to fit on the rim instead:

http://www.castlecooper.ca/home.php?cat=1336

Since the rims bolt together it shouldn't be hard to try any of these.

That last site also has the 6" x 1 1/4" tire in non-marring grey for a normal tube. I think these would be awesome to have as an option for the Arlo base since the standard black tires can leave marks on some floors.

Has anyone already tried any of these with the Parallax wheel kit? I need to upgrade the encoders on my base and I may try to upgrade the tires at the same time.

Robert

Comments

  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2014-08-05 13:45
    Hi Robert - Do you have to constantly add air to the tires, or do you just not like adding air the first time? If you have to constantly add, it sounds like you have a leak(s)? I've got some that I've filled once, two years ago, and they're still full - so you shouldn't be leaking.
    -MattG
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2014-08-05 13:56
    Hello Matt, I end up adding air a couple times a year. I'd rather not have to do it at all. At the moment the wheels are enclosed so I have to lay the robot on its side and it is hard to get to them. I added extensions to the valve stems to make it easier. It may be that these particular tubes just have a slow leak. I'll try using Fix-a-flat first to see if that helps. If not then I will go with the inserts.

    I have another base to assemble and I want to try the grey tires on that one. I think that would be a nice option for Parallax to try out as well.

    Robert
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2014-08-05 18:04
    @Robert: Interesting idea. Just curious how much navigation error you may be seeing (dead reckoning) when one or both tires lose air. Anything noticeable? Seems like cumulative errors could be significant after a while.

    I always thought HERO 2000 fairly set the standard with hard (non-pneumatic) tires. If that uber-heavy bot could use hard ties, Arlo sure could.

    Many balancing robots use pneumatic tires because they add significant rolling resistance and damping, which helps compensate for an underperforming control system. Other quick fixes to add damping include running the bot on thick padded carpet, and this extreme case where a guy demoed his one-wheel robot balancing on his BED. :)
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2014-08-05 18:59
    @Robert - a few years ago when the Motor and Wheel Kit first came out the editor of Servo and Nuts and Bolts, Bryan Bergeron, used the kit and added the inserts to his tires too. I looked at them back then, but decided against it. I thought being able to vary the pressure in the tires might provide some advantage in certain situations.

    @erco - neat video, but I would like the spinning bolts of death enclosed...
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2014-08-05 20:22
    Whit wrote: »
    @erco - neat video, but I would like the spinning bolts of death enclosed...

    Note the safety gloves the rather timid demonstrator is wearing!
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,239
    edited 2014-08-06 04:27
    What about filling them with expanding foam?

    http://www.instructables.com/id/No-more-flat-tires/
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2014-08-06 06:46
    doggiedoc wrote: »
    What about filling them with expanding foam?

    http://www.instructables.com/id/No-more-flat-tires/

    My suggestion as well. Worked for me.
  • TtailspinTtailspin Posts: 1,326
    edited 2014-08-06 07:42
    Great Stuff gap and crack filler, will break down into dust after a few months, if you put much weight on the wheel while rolling around.
    The 'Triple expanding' is just a little better, but will also turn to dust on a bumpy road.
    Save that stuff for your Boat flotation, life buoys, and modeling cool shapes with Epoxy Resins...

    If you must have solid tires, find a large truck tire shop, and see if they are willing to fill up your tire with what they use for solid tires on fork lifts. some shops will, and some won't.

    I think the best thing one could use to stop leaking inner tubes is a product called "Slime", it's easy to apply, and has worked on every tire i've used it on.




    -Tommy
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-08-06 08:16
    I thought everyone filled their MadeUSA/Eddie/Arlo tires with nitrogen, like I do.

    Only problem is, if I get tossed into the lake with my bot, I can't use the tires as an emergency air supply, James Bond style.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2014-08-06 08:45
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    I thought everyone filled their MadeUSA/Eddie/Arlo tires with nitrogen, like I do.

    I have a new set of tubes coming my way and I may just have to try getting them filled with Nitrogen. There is a nice write up on the advantages here:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=191

    I still think that the grey non-marring tires would be a nice option though. Just ordered a set of those tires and will try those out as well.

    Robert
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2014-08-06 09:30
    @Robert - Please give us a full report on the grey tires...

    @erco - yes - I did notice the gloves! ;-)
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-08-06 12:00
    I was only joking about the nitrogen. Filling them with bottled N would be a pain. The typical tire filler pump will over-inflate these things in about 300 milliseconds. They really need to be hand-pumped because their volume is so small.

    On the serious side, airless tires sure are more convenient, but can be expensive. I suppose one could look around and fine a source of used of mobility (wheelchair, power chair) tires, many of which are now airless.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2014-08-06 12:26
    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    I was only joking about the nitrogen. Filling them with bottled N would be a pain. The typical tire filler pump will over-inflate these things in about 300 milliseconds. They really need to be hand-pumped because their volume is so small.

    On the serious side, airless tires sure are more convenient, but can be expensive. I suppose one could look around and fine a source of used of mobility (wheelchair, power chair) tires, many of which are now airless.

    If I take off the wheels to swap the tires/tubes I could take them with my during lunch to one of the local tire stores and have them nitrogen fill the tires. Kidding aside I may just try it and see what they say.

    One of the links I posted had inserts for $10 each that would fit the existing 6" x 1-1/4" tires included with the wheel kit. At $20 plus shipping to never need to add air again or deal with flats seems like it would be worth it.

    I do like the wheel kits as they are but it would be cool to see as optional add-on items the solid inserts, grey non-marring tires, or even a solid tire as extras.

    Robert
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-08-06 17:08
    RobotWorkshop wrote: »
    I do like the wheel kits as they are but it would be cool to see as optional add-on items the solid inserts, grey non-marring tires, or even a solid tire as extras.

    They should offer these as extras, and as they'd be purchased items they could keep in low volume, it would be a great option for buyers. I wouldn't think they'd have to manufacture anything themselves, or commit to a large inventory.

    The Arlo hopes to compete with this little feller here:

    It uses foam-filled tires. I don't think I've seen a lab/research robot use pneumatic tires in a while. Doesn't mean the tires Arlo uses aren't useful, but for the university and research market they'd be an oddball.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2014-08-11 20:39
    Here is what the wheels look like with the non-marring gray tires installed:

    gray_wheels.jpg


    I like them!

    Robert
    gray_wheels.jpg
    1024 x 641 - 72K
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-08-11 22:48
    Excellent! Maybe Parallax can file this away for possible references for colleges and universities that require a non-marring and/or undeflatable tire. Another option for Arlo and its acceptance as a lab bot.
  • NikosGNikosG Posts: 705
    edited 2014-08-12 05:30
    Ttailspin wrote: »
    I think the best thing one could use to stop leaking inner tubes is a product called "Slime", it's easy to apply, and has worked on every tire i've used it on.

    -Tommy

    I used the classic way filling tires with air using a slime air compressor.

    The suggestion that I have for the Arlo robot is to have a specific plug in order to power the air compressor!
  • fataldavefataldave Posts: 61
    edited 2014-08-12 05:41
    RobotWorkshop wrote: »
    I have a new set of tubes coming my way and I may just have to try getting them filled with Nitrogen. There is a nice write up on the advantages here:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=191

    I still think that the grey non-marring tires would be a nice option though. Just ordered a set of those tires and will try those out as well.

    Robert

    Where did you find the tubes at? Do you have a part number? Went to start working on my Arlo again this weekend and found the tires flat after a few months of sitting unused so not sure how fast they went flat. Either I messed up or there was a recommendation to point the fill tubes inward and now I can't get to them to fill them easily so going to prob have to take the whole wheel off anyway.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2014-08-12 05:55
    fataldave wrote: »
    Where did you find the tubes at? Do you have a part number? Went to start working on my Arlo again this weekend and found the tires flat after a few months of sitting unused so not sure how fast they went flat. Either I messed up or there was a recommendation to point the fill tubes inward and now I can't get to them to fill them easily so going to prob have to take the whole wheel off anyway.

    I am going to order a pair of these inserts to try:

    http://www.allegromedical.com//wheelchair-accessories-c545/6-pneumatic-tube-p214436.html?engine=froogle&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=feed&CS_003=9164468&CS_010=8ab281020bb66df f010bb69aa6bb7018&gclid=CjwKEAjwgYKfBRDvgJeylem9xD USJACjeQ7AfZkSruqLp0y-b_Ql9S3IMDoEheYFkKpI0MvdCq7DrBoCAQDw_wcB&kwid=prod uctads-plaid^75263076373-sku^TAG173000@ADL1EA@ADL4ALLEGRO-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^49828912693#TAG173000_EA

    At $10 each that is the best price I can find on them. I will install these on one of my bases. On the other one I am going to give the tubes another shot. For those I am going to see if one of the local tire shops will do a quick nitrogen fill. If they can\t I am going to pickup a bottle of that "slime" additive that goes in the tubes to help seal them up:

    http://www.amazon.com/Slime-10003-Tube-Sealant-oz/dp/B000ENOPPO

    On the tubes I installed them with the valve stems pointed in toward the center of the base. I found that if you get some of the valve cap extensions from an auto parts store that will make it easier to access to add air. I'm trying to avoid adding any extra air but If you need to add air that helps having extensions.

    Robert
  • fataldavefataldave Posts: 61
    edited 2014-08-12 06:18
    RobotWorkshop wrote: »
    I am going to order a pair of these inserts to try:

    http://www.allegromedical.com//wheelchair-accessories-c545/6-pneumatic-tube-p214436.html?engine=froogle&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=feed&CS_003=9164468&CS_010=8ab281020bb66df f010bb69aa6bb7018&gclid=CjwKEAjwgYKfBRDvgJeylem9xD USJACjeQ7AfZkSruqLp0y-b_Ql9S3IMDoEheYFkKpI0MvdCq7DrBoCAQDw_wcB&kwid=prod uctads-plaid^75263076373-sku^TAG173000@ADL1EA@ADL4ALLEGRO-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^49828912693#TAG173000_EA

    At $10 each that is the best price I can find on them. I will install these on one of my bases. On the other one I am going to give the tubes another shot. For those I am going to see if one of the local tire shops will do a quick nitrogen fill. If they can\t I am going to pickup a bottle of that "slime" additive that goes in the tubes to help seal them up:

    http://www.amazon.com/Slime-10003-Tube-Sealant-oz/dp/B000ENOPPO

    On the tubes I installed them with the valve stems pointed in toward the center of the base. I found that if you get some of the valve cap extensions from an auto parts store that will make it easier to access to add air. I'm trying to avoid adding any extra air but If you need to add air that helps having extensions.

    Robert

    Thanks, I'll watch for your thoughts on those inserts.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2014-08-12 17:19
    I should get those inserts by next week. Once I get them installed I will let you know how it goes. On my other set of tires will give the tubes one more try. I stopped by a Belle Tire that is less than a mile from home and had them Nitrogen fill the tires. They thought the wheels were cool and once I told them what they were for they filled them for free. I'll see how these hold up against the other set with the inserts and how they compare.

    gray_wheels_on_base.jpg
    gray_wheels_on_base.jpg
    800 x 838 - 60K
  • ChrisL8ChrisL8 Posts: 129
    edited 2014-08-13 07:48
    Personally I'm very happy with the air filled tires. It was one of the benefits of the system in my mind.

    The odometry is amazing with these, better than I've had with any solid tire design I've tried to use odometry with. Not that I've used that many.

    Anyway, I'm keeping an eye on this thread to see how your experiment with solid inner tubes goes.
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