Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Support Issue — Parallax Forums

Support Issue

idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
edited 2014-07-30 04:40 in General Discussion
Last Thursday, approximately at noon, I sent the following email to support@parallax.com:
Hello Parallax

I have a situation in which I want to modify a PropPlug PCB, to enable the USB plug to extend through a thin sheet metal panel (rear cover of an enclosurure). I would like to cut the PropPlug PCB back from the USB plug end until the the first USB plug mounting pad.

The question is, are there any circuit traces in between the USB plug end of the PropPlug PCB and the first mounting pad of the USB plug?

If it helps, I have both Rev.A and Rev.B PropPlugs.

Any effort you may put forth into answering this vital question for me, will be greatly appreciated.

Bruce Drummond

My past experiences with Parallax support has always been pleasant and hasty, but it is now noontime Monday and I am beginning to wonder about the validity of the email address, because I thought it was a pretty simple question.

Bruce
«1

Comments

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-21 10:05
    Steady on, support is one thing. You know like how to turn the product on and use it.

    This is something else. How would Apple reply to an email asking about cutting an iPhone PCB in half?

    It maybe a simple question but. First someone has to find someone who designed the PropPlug or knows about it. That someone has to find the CAD files for it and see what is there. That someone then has to email you back. That's an hours work. Or dozens of times the profit on a PropPlug. I suspect these someones have far better things to be doing.

    I bet someone on the forums knows
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 11:08
    Heater

    If I had to guess, I would think that you are way off.

    I would guess that the schematics and board layouts for all Parallax products, past and previous, could be located by simply inserting the item number and performing a computer search.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-21 11:13
    We will see.

    In the mean time take a Dremel to it and see what happens.
  • pmrobertpmrobert Posts: 673
    edited 2014-07-21 11:17
    Do you know anyone who has anything to do with dental xray equipment perhaps even your own friendly dentist? These work really well for looking inside small PCBs.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-21 11:19
    I was thinking. If you shine a nice bright white LED through the PCB you can see through it. However looks like the USB socket is in the way for what Bruce wants to know.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 11:21
    In the mean time take a Dremel to it and see what happens.

    I don't thinks so.

    As for the comment:
    Or dozens of times the profit on a PropPlug. I suspect these someones have far better things to be doing.

    That does not account for keeping a customer happy and maintaining good support. There are many other items that I have purchased and will purchase in the future, that I have not and will not require support for. A reply email is the least that is expected for good customer service, whether or not an answer is provided.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2014-07-21 11:23
    Bruce,

    I know you want to know what you want know and probably don't want an alternative, but...couldn't you just extend the header end instead?

    The serial signals are going to be far more forgiving of being lengthened than the USB signals.

    C.W.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2014-07-21 11:25
    I am following up on this message, however I did want to mention that if it were me I would send a follow-up request in case the message got stuck somewhere. A follow-up would have alerted us much sooner that your request had been missed. I myself have been about to reply to an e-mail and had a call come in referring me to another e-mail and then once or twice the original e-mail was forgotten because it was marked as read. We're only human in Tech Support. :innocent:
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 11:27
    C.W.

    I really don't want to extend four pins out of an enclosure, which would make them susceptible to shorts and damage.
  • T ChapT Chap Posts: 4,223
    edited 2014-07-21 11:29
    Build your own boards and stop whining.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 11:33
    Chris
    I am following up on this message, however I did want to mention that if it were me I would send a follow-up request in case the message got stuck somewhere. A follow-up would have alerted us much sooner that your request had been missed. I myself have been about to reply to an e-mail and had a call come in referring me to another e-mail and then once or twice the original e-mail was forgotten because it was marked as read. We're only human in Tech Support. :innocent:

    Thanks for replying.

    First off, let me state that I am not upset, and I realize that stuff happens to humans. I just did not want to keep emailing if the email link was broken, and I did not want to call for support, because I think email and forum support is easier to maintain.
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2014-07-21 11:37
    We're only human in Tech Support
    Naaah...that just can't be! :tongue:
    -MattG
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 11:38
    Build your own boards and stop whining.

    What is your problem?
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2014-07-21 11:56
    idbruce wrote: »
    Chris Thanks for replying. First off, let me state that I am not upset, and I realize that stuff happens to humans. I just did not want to keep emailing if the email link was broken, and I did not want to call for support, because I think email and forum support is easier to maintain.

    It's not a problem. I just wanted to save you from any future possibility of frustration first. I just spoke with David Carrier who designed this board and he should be replying soon with some information.

    Oh, and guys, please let's not bicker in the forums. Thanks! :blank: That was for everyone.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 12:12
    Thank you very much for your effort Chris. Greatly Appreciated!
  • trookstrooks Posts: 228
    edited 2014-07-21 12:34
    Heater. wrote: »
    I was thinking. If you shine a nice bright white LED through the PCB you can see through it. However looks like the USB socket is in the way for what Bruce wants to know.


    I do not know for sure about that particular board but it appears the USB plug is surface mounted with no circuitry closer to the edge than the rear mounting tabs.
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,566
    edited 2014-07-21 12:36
    idbruce,

    I took the original E-mail from you on Thursday, and was researching your question. Yes, I should have perhaps immediately replied, but I did not.

    One would think that this would be a simple matter to resolve, and why I didn't reply immediately, since all I would need to do would be to review the Gerber files. There in lies the problem. In some cases the files are kept on the corporate drive, and in other cases they are not accessible. The latter of the two was the case here, and so I have been delayed on getting an answer back to you. Currently, I still don't have an answer as the person who designed the board is currently assigned on another project that he can not be detoured from.

    My apologies for any delay or inconvenience.
  • David CarrierDavid Carrier Posts: 294
    edited 2014-07-21 12:47
    idbruce,
    I found some raw USB2SER PCBs and attached some pictures. The only layout difference from the Prop Plug is that one FT232R pin is connected to the 5v supply instead of the 3.3v supply. It doesn't affect any traces near the USB connector. You also don't have to wory about the traces between the four large rextangular pads that where the frame of the USB connector mounts, they are not electrically necessary.

    — David Carrier
    Parallax Inc.
    front.jpg
    281 x 466 - 49K
    back.jpg
    240 x 463 - 40K
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 13:24
    Thank You David! That was what I need to know.

    Thank you Beau for the explanation, no worries! I just wondered if anyone saw it :) but also wanted an answer :)

    Thanks again Chris!

    Parallax is still the BEST in my book.
  • Vern GranerVern Graner Posts: 337
    edited 2014-07-21 13:37
    idbruce wrote: »
    I have a situation in which I want to modify a PropPlug PCB, to enable the USB plug to extend through a thin sheet metal panel (rear cover of an enclosure).

    A possible option that would 1) not require the risk and time to modify the propplug and 2) give you the mounting hardware for a panel mount USB connection. The product description is here:

    Good quality super speed usb b type female to mini usb extension cable with panel mount screws
    Mini USB male to female extension cable
    Cable length: about 0.3m / 30cm
    Panel Mount USB Cable – Mini USB Male to B Female

    Product page is here:

    http://www.moddiy.com/products/Mini-USB-to-USB-Type%252dB-Extension-Cable-with-Panel-Mounts-(Black).html?gclid=CjwKEAjw9LKeBRDurOugs43jnlgSJACUXqHx-dd_zpjnB-gxWjM-d_C7ZrqW0JyfkFiEkGzzBqmrThoCRsLw_wcB

    A picture of the item is here:

    http://www.moddiy.com/product_images/t/375/Mini_USB_to_USB_Type-B_Extension_Cable_with_Panel_Mounts_%28Black%29__06269_zoom.jpg

    I can't vouch for that particular company, but it seems like there should be other solutions similar to this in case modding the plug isn't feasible for whatever reason. Food for thought at least. :)

    Vern
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-07-21 14:34
    I'd go for the extension cable, too.

    In fact I AM going for it already.
    (Using a similar cable to 'export' the USB connector on the SmoothieBoard controller on my ShapeOko CnC-Mill)
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 16:07
    Vern

    If they had gone back further with the mounting flanges, it would be a potential solution for the price, but then you are bound by the length. I plan to make my own 4 pin cable to length, not too much or too little, but just right. However, thanks for posting information about it, because I will certainly bookmark it.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-07-21 16:56
    Say what you will about Californians, but the standard time-keeping arrangement here is Pacific time, meaning 2 or 3 hours *earlier* than you (depending on where you are in Indiana). That left just one full work day to have gotten back to you about your issue. It wasn't by noon today that you didn't get a response. It was by 9am, the start of *their* day. When Einstein said time was relative, this is precisely what he was talking about.

    Now, if the Parallax email server doesn't automatically send out a confirmation to messages sent to support at parallax.com, it probably should. But even then, I imagine a question like yours will require the attention of not just a front-line support tech, but a senior developer. Let's be honest here, and realize those kinds of questions can take another day or two.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-21 17:12
    Gordon

    My original post was not intended to be a complaint, just a concern.
    Now, if the Parallax email server doesn't automatically send out a confirmation to messages sent to support at parallax.com

    That would be a good idea :)
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-22 02:04
    UPDATE

    I have now trimmed a PropPlug Rev. A. back to the first USB plug mounting tab. A simple test of "Identify Hardware" with the Propeller Tool, provides a result of "Propeller chip version 1 found on COM3".

    It appears that all is good. Many thanks guys. I will provide a photo of the end result, when I get the PropPlug attached to a mounting bracket.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-22 05:47
    UPDATE

    Since yesterday, I have been pondering various mounting solutions. Whatever direction I turned, the molded plastic that sat on top of the PropPlug, became an obstacle. After getting tired of trying to work around this obstacle, I decided to try and remove it. To my amazement, it was basically just a raised decal of some sort and was easily removed. I have always thought that the molded plastic was somehow permanently bonded to the PCB to prevent removal and now I wish I had tried that a long time ago.

    With the excess PCB material and decal removed, mounting the PropPlug to a mounting bracket should be a breeze. It is simply a matter of taking a piece of plastic, cutting a channel in it for the PCB to rest in, while also centering the USB plug, securing the PCB to the plastic with two small screws, and drilling two holes for the panel mount.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-22 05:56
    Sounds over complicated. A big gob of epoxy or hot glue would do it. :)
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-22 06:56
    A big gob of epoxy or hot glue would do it.

    That was my initial thought, until I made a big glob of hot glue. When fully hardened, the glue is still highly flexible. Although I may still use glue as extra added insurance to prevent movement. As for the epoxy, well that is just too unforgiving for all the mistakes I make :)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-22 07:00
    That is the beauty of hot glue. It still flexes and provides strain relief for the wires poking out of it. I agree epoxy is a bit over the top.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-07-23 01:34
    The panel mount PropPlug is now complete. It looks good, it is very sturdy, and it is working perfectly. I only wish that Parallax sold a panel mount PropPlug like this. Perhaps when I post some pictures of it, maybe others will like the idea, and just maybe, Parallax will run with the concept. Either way, thank you Parallax for providing support on this issue.
Sign In or Register to comment.