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Man Faces Felony for Using a Drone to Film Outside a Hospital Window — Parallax Forums

Man Faces Felony for Using a Drone to Film Outside a Hospital Window

Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
edited 2014-07-27 02:24 in General Discussion
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/man-faces-felony-for-using-a-drone-to-film-outside-a-92057392569.html

In the domestic drone debate, critics have argued that personal drones will usher in an era of rampant DIY surveillance, with cameras in the sky everywhere you turn. Proponents of that view have more ammunition this week, as an upstate New York man was arrested and faces felony charges for allegedly using a drone to film outside a medical exam room.

David Beesmer, 49, flew a drone within 15 feet of a hospital window where patients were being examined...

Comments

  • mklrobomklrobo Posts: 420
    edited 2014-07-17 17:28
    :blank: Incredible! This is why you can't have nothing. Somebody ALWAYS messes it up for the rest of us!
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-07-17 18:15
    mklrobo wrote: »
    :blank: Incredible! This is why you can't have nothing. Somebody ALWAYS messes it up for the rest of us!

    You would think someone 49 would have more sense.

    Like they say, "There's no cure for stupid!"...
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2014-07-17 18:51
    Medical offices are crazy. I worked for an office a few years back where a patient in the lobby heard a girl behind the front counter call in her rx for some embarrassing medication. She read off her name, social and some other personal details, then called the woman to the counter to get her copayment. The woman was so embarrassed because there were other people in the room she wouldn't get out of her chair. The end result was a mid six figure fine and the end of that practice.

    This guy is in for a serious ride ahead.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2014-07-17 19:01
    When they get done applying HIPAA law violations and trespassing to this case, he won't be seeing another drone for a while..

    Wow.. So stupid..
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2014-07-18 00:24
    The truth of the matter is that the law's broken are irrelevant to the drone. It just so happens that a drone was the tool used to break those laws. That's where things start getting ignorant thanks to the media hype.
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2014-07-18 10:49
    Bad thinking. Use a car and run over lots of people and you go to jail, record a phone conversation without another person's consent and you get to visit a judge and get a felony on your record.

    In short using a tool to spy versus crawling up in person and watching them is the same in the eyes of the law.

    Droners need to exercise restraint, they need to understand that a drone isn't a license to spy on people in their backyards, office buildings or buzz police choppers. People don't like being watched, there already have been cases of drones being shot, smashed and the operators slapped around and generally for good reason.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-07-18 11:19
    rod1963 wrote: »
    ...record a phone conversation without another person's consent and you get to visit a judge and get a felony on your record

    Actually that depends on where you live - most states only require "one party notification" so if you are one of the participants, it may be legal

    See: http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law-america.htm
    Federal law may apply when the conversation is between parties who are in different states, although it is unsettled whether a court will hold in a given case that federal law "pre-empts" state law, but either state may choose to enforce its own laws. Therefore it is better to err on the side of caution when recording an interstate telephone call.
    State Laws (Table)

    While the U.S. federal law only requires one-party consent, many states have accepted different laws. In some states all parties must give their consent or at least be notified that the call is about to be recorded (with necessary opt-out option: if you don’t like them to record the call, you can ask them to stop recording). There also was a case law decision from many years ago (the 1950's) that went to the Supreme Court and affirmed that the federal law does not supersede state authority/statutes unless the call or the tap crosses state lines – that is why each state went ahead and established their own guideline/statute.


    States Requiring One Party Notification





    Alabama
    Alaska
    Arizona
    Arkansas
    Colorado
    District Of Columbia
    Georgia
    Hawaii
    Idaho
    Illinois
    Indiana
    Iowa
    Kansas
    Kentucky

    Louisiana
    Maine
    Minnesota
    Mississippi
    Missouri
    Nebraska
    Nevada
    New Jersey
    New Mexico
    New York
    North Carolina
    North Dakota
    Oklahoma

    Oregon
    Ohio
    Rhode Island
    South Carolina
    South Dakota
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Utah
    Vermont
    Virginia
    West Virginia
    Wisconsin
    Wyoming











    States Requiring Two Party Notification






    California
    Connecticut
    Delaware
    Florida

    Massachusetts
    Maryland
    Michigan
    Montana

    New Hampshire
    Pennsylvania
    Washington







  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2014-07-18 15:02
    rod1963 wrote: »
    Bad thinking. Use a car and run over lots of people and you go to jail, record a phone conversation without another person's consent and you get to visit a judge and get a felony on your record.

    In short using a tool to spy versus crawling up in person and watching them is the same in the eyes of the law.

    I think we agree more than disagree, but I definitely don't believe my thinking is bad in any way. My intention was to state the relevance of the "drone" to the severity level implied by the crime. If this same person was to tie a camera to a bunch of helium ballons and float it up to do the same thing, I doubt it would be getting media attention such as this. However, since he used a drone and drones are a hot topic for media, it is plastered everywhere. The crime is the crime irregardless as you say, but this article implies severity simply because a drone was involved. That won't fly in a court of law as justification for a greater sentence. (no pun intended)
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-07-18 16:08
    Actually that depends on where you live
    Yep, I live in WA. State and install CCTV Cameras and two way audio for listening and recording. The Voyeurism Law states that you MUST post a notice if you are listening to and or recording audio. It is OK to record video without notice but audio is a no no.

    Just curious as to the Law in New York. If it is like WA. then the case will go nowhere.
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2014-07-19 10:07
    I just installed video and audio CCTV cameras around my house. I also read up on the laws. No point in getting a video of a crook if it is not legal and can't be used in court!

    Anyway one thing I read is that no video (audio) recording can be made in areas where someone would normally expect privacy. Like a bathroom or bedroom. (Or in the above case, a hospital examining room.) And doing so is against the law.

    The audio recordings have different laws from video recordings. Be aware of that. And pretty much you can do audio recordings so long as you notify people they are being recorded. Thus the "this call being recorded" messages when you call a business. And video seems fair game in public places and non-expectation of privacy areas of private property/businesses.

    In my case, it is my understanding I can record video and audio outside my home so long as I have signs posted all around saying "video and audio surveillance". And I don't think I would need any signs if video only.

    Note: Nothing is "for sure" with laws. And various states have different laws. One good source for this information is a TV news site - they are always "testing the waters" with various TV programs...

    Reporter's Recording Guide...
    http://www.rcfp.org/rcfp/orders/docs/RECORDING.pdf
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2014-07-19 11:13
    It's kind of funny that the laws are so different. I bet there is software that can read lips from high resolution video, and I know there are people that can do it.
  • trookstrooks Posts: 228
    edited 2014-07-21 12:19
    The truth of the matter is that the law's broken are irrelevant to the drone. It just so happens that a drone was the tool used to break those laws. That's where things start getting ignorant thanks to the media hype.

    Is not "media hype" a redundancy? You know like 'shyster lawyer', 'corrupt politician' and 'bureaucratic ineptitude'.

    I know it is not good form to correct spelling or grammar but this one just would not let me pass it by.

    Forgive me please.

    Tim

    (Edited to cover my lack of proof reading skills.)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-22 00:19
    trooks,

    You are not making any spelling or grammatical corrections.

    You might have a point if it were true that there were no honest lawyers (I have met at least one!), no straight politicians, and no inept bureaucrats. Or in this case media that does not "hype".

    Given that there are such things there is not a problem with all this.

    Besides "media hype" is in such common usage one has no legs to stand on when trying to find any grammatical error in it.

    It's not like he'd said "PIN number", "LCD display", or "LED diode". But even those usages are so common it's not worth hassling over.
  • trookstrooks Posts: 228
    edited 2014-07-22 03:18
    Heater. wrote: »
    trooks,

    You are not making any spelling or grammatical corrections.

    You might have a point if it were true that there were no honest lawyers (I have met at least one!), no straight politicians, and no inept bureaucrats. Or in this case media that does not "hype".

    Given that there are such things there is not a problem with all this.

    Besides "media hype" is in such common usage one has no legs to stand on when trying to find any grammatical error in it.

    It's not like he'd said "PIN number", "LCD display", or "LED diode". But even those usages are so common it's not worth hassling over.


    We are most fortunate in that unlike some we do not have language police<g>.

    PM me if you did not catch my drift on that.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-22 03:21
    trooks,

    Sorry if I missed some joke their about the language police. I still don't see it if there was one.

    Just recently I was watching a lecture on YouTube about this topic by a renowned linguistics professor.

    He basically said:

    A lot of the language style and grammar rules laid down style guides, as created by newspapers for their journalists, or for the general public were basically often very wrong. They did not accord with the way most people speak or write, or any well known and respected books in recent history or indeed the history of the English language at all.

    Further, the way English is often taught in school is similarly wrong. He gave some amusing examples of grammar tests used in examinations, multiple choice, for which there was no correct answer or nobody could figure out what the question meant anyway.

    This made me feel much better. Turns out that when my mind rejected all efforts by my English teachers at school it was not my fault!
  • trookstrooks Posts: 228
    edited 2014-07-23 07:27
    Heater. wrote: »
    trooks,

    Sorry if I missed some joke their about the language police. I still don't see it if there was one.

    Just recently I was watching a lecture on YouTube about this topic by a renowned linguistics professor.

    He basically said:

    A lot of the language style and grammar rules laid down style guides, as created by newspapers for their journalists, or for the general public were basically often very wrong. They did not accord with the way most people speak or write, or any well known and respected books in recent history or indeed the history of the English language at all.

    Further, the way English is often taught in school is similarly wrong. He gave some amusing examples of grammar tests used in examinations, multiple choice, for which there was no correct answer or nobody could figure out what the question meant anyway.

    This made me feel much better. Turns out that when my mind rejected all efforts by my English teachers at school it was not my fault!


    Think global regarding language police.

    English in school was always my toughest subject. Unlike math and science English gave you a rule and then fourty-eleven exceptions. Therefore I took speech and journalism and became editor of my HS newspaper that was printed on newsprint with pictures. The mechanic in me loved the linotype.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-23 07:45
    trooks,
    ]Think global regarding language police.
    Yes. Actually I think that is what the linguistics proff. was getting at.

    The English language is a mess of stuff from all around, so called "Indo-European" I think they call it. It changes all the time. But if you are linguist studying these things you find that it does have persistent rules of usage despite the massive changes that occur in spelling, vocabulary and so on. Despite the lack of "style guides" and grammar books.

    Then you find that a lot of the current style guides and grammar education is totally at odds with historical precedent. Hence the logical disconnect and pain kids feel in school English classes. The teaching is just wrong!

    If you have a free hour, Prof. Nikolas Gisborne's brilliant lecture on this, "What's Grammar For?", is here http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myvD96EQx9s

    There is a lot of linguistic nerd babble in then to get through though. I think every school kid should see this video so that they know what they are up against and can tell their English teachers to stick it, inteligently:)
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2014-07-23 09:06
    I've had a few "go 'rounds" on forums where there are highly technical people along with homeowners. Someone will call something by a common term (which the homeowner understands), then a technical type will jump in and say that is not the proper terminology (and the homeowner would have no idea what that term meant).

    Personally I feel it is best the "listener" understand what you are saying, then you are communicating! (Speak in terms and language the listener will understand.)
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-07-23 10:06
    Communication is optional and negotiable.
    Terminology is created by agreement.
    Attempts to standardize may never go as far as hoped for.

    I have been teaching English as a second language for over 19 years. And to do it well has been an extremely interesting journey. One day I might even understand Australians. Meanwhile, I am actually doing quite well with watching Sponge Bob Square Pants in Chinese.

    What does this all have to do with peeping in hospital windows?

    Grammar first evolved to teach Latin ( a dead language) to people attending higher education of the day.

    All languages change over time, not just English.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2014-07-24 00:02
    I'm curious, why there's no Jap pr0n yet, filmed with drones? :)
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-07-24 00:30
    And you know there isn't any because... ?
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2014-07-24 02:16
    'cause considering popular demand, if there was any, we'd already have seen it :)
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-24 03:34
    Loopy,
    Grammar first evolved to teach Latin ( a dead language) to people attending higher education of the day.
    I disagree. Of course.

    You cant' have communications without different symbols, the ordering and arrangement of those symbols will determine the meaning of what you are trying to say. That is grammar.

    You can imagine that at the dawn of human verbal language we had simple sounds, say shriek and grunt. "Shriek grunt" might have meant "good". "Grunt shriek" might have meant bad. Or whatever. This has evolved in many ways over the millenia and created the different languages we have today. So we now have "The cat sat on the mat" having a different meaning to "The mat sat on the cat". In other languages, like Finnish things can be "backwards", "The cup is table on" rather than "The cup is on the table" (Finns please excuse my crude explanation here).

    In computer programming we also have grammar, syntax as they say. Like Finnish, Forth is backwards compared to many others.

    Oh yeah, as long as there is someone understands it no language is "dead". I can listen to the news on the radio every morning in Latin! The Welsh language has had a massive revival in my lifetime. As a kid very few spoke Welsh, now it is a very big thing. There are many other examples.

    I'm failing to really hard to relate all this to drones and hospitals.
  • photomankcphotomankc Posts: 943
    edited 2014-07-25 09:33
    The truth of the matter is that the law's broken are irrelevant to the drone. It just so happens that a drone was the tool used to break those laws. That's where things start getting ignorant thanks to the media hype.

    So few people ever seem to get that concept. Apply the law and punish the people who do illegal things. Would it be any different if he'd used an extension pole or setup a telescope on a garage roof? All the reflexive nannies that have no answer but "Ban" and "New regulations needed" just drive me to insanity. If the measure of what activity I'm allowed to do is tied to the first #$%##*le who abuses it then there is nothing left because the world is filled with #$%##*les and will always be so.
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2014-07-27 02:24
    photomankc wrote: »
    So few people ever seem to get that concept. Apply the law and punish the people who do illegal things. Would it be any different if he'd used an extension pole or setup a telescope on a garage roof? All the reflexive nannies that have no answer but "Ban" and "New regulations needed" just drive me to insanity. If the measure of what activity I'm allowed to do is tied to the first #$%##*le who abuses it then there is nothing left because the world is filled with #$%##*les and will always be so.

    Yeah, it would be different. The news/media wouldn't get the amount of traffic needed to facilitate publishing it. "Extension Pole" vs "Drone". This is mostly because, I'm sure you already know, the buzzword "drone" literally drives advertising revenue into their pockets. I can't even...
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