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Taking a PhD, any experiences to share? — Parallax Forums

Taking a PhD, any experiences to share?

John A. ZoidbergJohn A. Zoidberg Posts: 514
edited 2014-07-03 21:19 in General Discussion
Hey there,

I've just done with my MEngSci work, and graduating soon. I'll be also planning on taking a PhD as well.

So, anyone here with a PhD or a PostDoctorates here who can share the experiences? From what I know, publishing papers and have a high tolerance of tedious work is required in any sort of research job. :)

Comments

  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2014-07-02 23:18
    Go for it! It's the only way you'll know for sure whether you like it or not. I didn't: academia just wasn't my cup of tea. But I'll never regret going through with it.

    Since escaping grad school with a doctorate, I've had two real jobs: laminating fiberglass and working on a salmon troller. For the remaining 37 years, I've been self-employed -- both solo and with business partners -- writing mail-order software, designing and manufacturing fishing lures, designing produce-sorting electronics, manufacturing inspection cameras, designing for TAOS (AMS) and now for Parallax and volunteer teaching. My current gig has probably given me the most satisfaction, but I couldn't have gotten here by eliminating the other steps along the way. I'm sure I'm completely unemployable and have been for years.

    Had I skipped grad school and gone right into the workforce, I'd probably just now be retiring from IBM in Polyester Falls, Minnesota, or somesuch place (shudder) after making the final payment on a 30-year mortgage.

    I'm guessing my experience is atypical. :)

    -Phil
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2014-07-03 05:49
    Yeah, completely unemployable...

    Me?
    Sorry, don't have a degree. Nothing that rates more than about college level anyways.
    (Most of my education is in computers and programming.)
    Which is why I'm stuck in a cozy government job, ruling a network and a dozen servers with an iron fist. No programming beyond throwing together a few batch scripts now and then to automate some tedious task.
    (I also fix PCs, install temporary networks, and back when I answered the Helldesk phone had the highest 'on call resolution' score of anyone in my organisation. And that Helldesk has just about the highest numbers in Europe. )
    Sure, knowing that my brother earned more as a paperboy was a bit of a sore point... But then again, I didn't have to get up at half past midnight(literally) to run a half marathon every night, and then again in the afternoon... He did what was normally 5 or 6 separate routes)
    He's a trucker now, though... And his education was in marketing... But his first real job was as a 'visiting nurse' traveling around the city, visiting elderly and helping them with their chores(shopping, washing, sorting medications into those tray-like boxes, changing bandages, setting injections and even some cooking. The little old ladies who were usually scared silly when a man showed up just adored the scruffy brute...) which he actually started while serving in HMKG (King's Guards)
    I may have had a slightly higher income if I had finished my education, but then I might have ended up in a private business somewhere, not in my cushy and very, very secure government job...

    I know how to drive a tractor, with an assortment of really dangerous farm implements attached, can milk a cow...
    I've spent a winter splitting and stacking firewood.
    My first 'real' marketable skill, though, was clinking copper nails on wooden boats...

    What's my point?
    Actually... I'm not too certain...
    There either isn't one, or it's that you won't always be working your 'chosen field'.
    And sometimes the field choose you...
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-07-03 06:42
    Sounds like a silly question but what do you want to do or expect to do with your PHD?

    I'm not sure how keen industry is on hiring a newly minted PhD - they might see you as overqualified for what they are willing to pay and unwilling to work your way up the food chain. The academic world will expect you to work your way up the tenure ladder and bring in grant money and fame and recognition for the university through your papers and books.

    I'm in the ranks of the undegreed, pulling in my big salary for MegaCorp for another 5 years or so in Polyester Falls, Minnesota until I can retire. I have done fiberglass work but never worked a salmon boat.:smile:

    We have a bunch of PhD's around the company, they are expected to generate patents and provide innovation and develop the ideas provided by the people that actually do the jobs and have at least one foot planted in reality.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-07-03 06:55
    Here is a Phd story.
    I offered to paint my parent's house and my dad gave me his credit card to pay for materials. Since he is a Jr. and I am a III, the name on it appeared to be the same.

    I visited a local paint store and said I was going to buy quite of bit of paint and requested a professional discount. They said fine until I tried to pay for it with the credit card as it was prefixed with Dr. They challenged me being a professional painter, I countered by saying I have a Phd in Philosopy and they immediately gave me the discount.

    ==========

    Phil is right, it is worth doing for you own satisfcation. But a career in academia with promotions soon moves you up and out of seeking knowledge and into handling revenue in the form of tuition and grants, while deferring costs in terms of hiring cheaply or getting graduate students to do much of the teaching. Occasionally there is an Einstien that wanders in to gain a well-funded and carte-blanche position while the rest of the university work hard to keep the doors open and classes full.

    I started a Masters in TESL via distance learning while in Taiwan enrolled at the University of Edinburgh, Scotland. It all seemed like a wonderful idea, but actually teaching high school kid and adults in cram schools in Taiwan was much more rewarding than teaching in a national university. So I couldn't justify the tuition, bought all the books and read them and only finished half the courses.

    Apparently, in the U.K., one may make one attempt at a Phd without any prior credentials and if your work is accepted you get it. If your work is not accepted, you don't get any second chances. So if you have a particular research topic that you are passionate about, you might bypass all the application processes and just go straight on to applying for a Phd. That seems to be an interesting alternative.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2014-07-03 07:36
    I would advise pursuing your PhD now if you have even the slightest desire to do so. You're still 'in the groove' so to speak, it will be harder to come back later.

    I always placed work above school and with all the starting, stopping, and part time status ended up taking 15 years and two schools to get my undergrad degree.

    Hopefully someday I'll have to the time and money to go back for a postgraduate degree, but that looks less likely as time goes by.

    Chris Wardell
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-07-03 08:33
    Agree with Phil, do it now if you have the inkling -- but only if it won't leave you horribly in debt. I'm not sure what part of the planet you're from, but in the US at least, the cost for a doctorate can easily outstrip what you'll make back with it during the next 10 or 12 years. For some schools, you can set a schedule to earn a PhD part time while working, to offset the cost. It might take an additional year to get it, but then you won't be saddled with debt.

    I took another route: before I finished school, an attractive work offer came by and I took it. In my line of work a degree wasn't really necessary, but it's a distinct disadvantage not having one if changing careers. If a PhD will help you with your goals, now's the time to pursue it. Don't forget teaching, if that's an aim. I know a college professor who doesn't teach classes, takes sabbaticals all the time, and writes only one book every few years. His income is, shall we say, very decent. It's the best form of "retirement" I can think of!
  • twm47099twm47099 Posts: 867
    edited 2014-07-03 09:15
    I don't have a PhD (BS in metallurgical engineering, MS Mechanical Engineering), but I hired and helped grow a few. As others have said a lot depends on your goals. If you want to do basic research you will probably need one, if you want to do R&D (applied research not product design/development) it probably would help (although the specific field/ industry will also be an important factor determining need/desirability).

    I worked in a government R&D lab doing mostly applied research, and many of the technologies we developed are in use. About mid career I became a group supervisor (15 - 20 people). My group was made up of scientists, engineers, and technicians. I had about 3 - 4 PhDs at any given time. Most were home grown (part time graduate work paid for by our agency), but a few were hired after they had received their PhD. One reason I liked to hire a PhD instead of a BS S&E w/o relevant work experience was that they already knew how to do research. We just had to teach them policy and agency methods to get work done The BS and to some extent MS S&Es right out of school had very limited knowledge of how to do research and required a lot of on-the-job training. Additionally, once they found out what R&D was all about, some didn't like it. The biggest problem with the PhDs (I didn't hire any Sheldon Coopers, although some groups did and had other problems) was that they were too upwardly mobile. If we couldn't promote them quickly enough, they easily found jobs in higher paying agencies/companies or decided to fulfill their desire of becoming a professor.

    Most PhDs I worked with did not find research tedious - in fact that is why they became PhDs, and reporting your results is a necessary part of research - otherwise only you and the team you work with have learned anything - fine if you are funding the work, not so much if its a grant. It is important to carefully pick a dissertation adviser. Be sure to check with their current students or recent graduates to make sure that the work you would be doing is of interest and that you can tolerate the adviser's 'style'. If you just interview with the advisor, he/she might seem great, but it could be they are so difficult to work with that they are just trying to sell themselves to get any grad student.

    Tom
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2014-07-03 10:08
    ...I'd probably just now be retiring from IBM in Polyester Falls, Minnesota, or somesuch place (shudder) after making the final payment on a 30-year mortgage.

    As a former IBM'er, I find your reference to Polyester Falls hilarious. I'm adding it in my personal lexicon today.

    I dreaded the thought of a 30-year mortgage, too, so I paid mine off in seven. Only what then? Buy more land. Probably not the best move I ever made. But probably better than keeping it in the bank, especially in light of how fast the dollar has plummeted in value in recent years. (Hooray for deficit spending on social programs to buy votes!)

    Similarly, investing in an education is probably better than stuffing money in a bank. Is it the best use? I've no idea. When does diminishing marginal utility take over? Considering that knowledge is one of the few things you can take with you, perhaps never.
  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2014-07-03 11:51
    So, anyone here with a PhD or a PostDoctorates here who can share the experiences? From what I know, publishing papers and have a high tolerance of tedious work is required in any sort of research job. :)
    I've always like this line from the original Ghostbusters movie:
    Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and facilities, we didn't have to produce anything! You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've *worked* in the private sector. They expect *results*.
    If you are at a point in your life where you don't have a lot of family responsibilities, then I would encourage you to pursue your doctorate. That's what I did, and it opened doors for me that I wouldn't have access to otherwise. It was a struggle financially, but when you're on your own you can be flexible with budgeting your time and money. If you are married and have kids you and your wife will have to think long and hard about whether you want to put your family through the struggle of getting a doctorate. If you do decide to go for your doctorate make sure you start writing your dissertation as soon as possible. Otherwise, you might end up with an ABD instead of a Ph.D.
  • John A. ZoidbergJohn A. Zoidberg Posts: 514
    edited 2014-07-03 20:17
    Thanks for the opinions everyone. I'm thinking of taking the PhD is because of the project/work of interest in that studies. That particular project has a lot to do with electrics, electronics, and finally firmware which is my favourite topic.

    Also, I do not have family responsibilities, and still single, so I can sit through and endure the torture of long hours of research. :)
  • Too_Many_ToolsToo_Many_Tools Posts: 765
    edited 2014-07-03 21:19
    Thanks for the opinions everyone. I'm thinking of taking the PhD is because of the project/work of interest in that studies. That particular project has a lot to do with electrics, electronics, and finally firmware which is my favourite topic.

    Also, I do not have family responsibilities, and still single, so I can sit through and endure the torture of long hours of research. :)

    As the group has said...it depends.

    I have not regreted the degrees that I received and have found them rewarding economically.

    Bear in mind the more specialized you become, the more limited the employment possibilities.
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