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Same as Polymorph? — Parallax Forums

Same as Polymorph?

NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
edited 2014-06-17 22:55 in General Discussion
I was just wondering If anyone has used this and if it is comparable to Polymorph: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=23384236

The local shack had them for half off so I will go pick up a few if it is the same or similar.

Comments

  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,934
    edited 2014-05-30 22:54
    Yes, it is exactly the same as Polymorph which is "2-Oxepanone homopolymer" known as Polycaprolactone. It goes by lots of names per Wikipedia: such as "InstaMorph", "Friendly Plastic", "ShapeLock", "PolyMorph", "Plastimake", "Protoplast", "Plaast" etc..

    The Radio Shack U Mold has the same CAS# as Polymorph (CAS 24980-41-4) which is what gives it away.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-05-31 09:38
    The heat-molded polymers certainly have their place, but don't forget the more modern wonder material, polymer clay. It's worked at room temperature, is not sticky, and sets in air or an oven. Though it can break with a high enough impact or stress, it's well suited for use in simple molds. It retains detail, and will holding any hole threads. Certain brands, like FIMO, bakes (renders down) into PVC plastic, so solvent-based cements will work with it, too.

    An advantage is that most craft stores have multiple brands of polymer clays, whereas the "Friendly Plastic" and others like it are now harder to find locally.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-05-31 17:29
    I like polymer clay too but I find I use Polymorph much more often than I use polymer clay.

    One of the things I really like about Polymorph is it can be "adjusted" after its original application by heating it back up (I use a heat gun). It doesn't hold a thread pattern well but I often add a nut to the Polymorph when I want to bolt it to something.

    I followed a link on the Radio Shack site and found they have colors one can add to Polymorph. This is very exciting to me. Do any of you have experience with these color pellets? I'll likely get some unless someone suggests a better alternative.

    Gareth has made several tutorials on using Polymorph including one on how to add color colour. I haven't found a good source for the pigments he uses so I'm hoping the Radio Shack color pellets will work well.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-05-31 17:52
    EBay has lots of sources for Polymorph colors: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR6.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpolymorph+color&_nkw=polymorph+color&_sacat=0&_from=R40
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-05-31 18:40
    Radio Shack's interest in PCL is probably from their new foray into 3D printing. Some printers take these pellets, so that the parts -- and parts of parts -- can be in different colors. IOW, these appear to be merely colored PCL, and not just an inert dye colorant. Cheap enough to find out, though...
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-05-31 18:44
    Radio Shack's interest in PCL is probably from their new foray into 3D printing
    Why then would they be on clearance already?
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-05-31 19:19
    NWCCTV wrote: »
    EBay has lots of sources for Polymorph colors: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR6.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpolymorph+color&_nkw=polymorph+color&_sacat=0&_from=R40

    Thanks. I hadn't seen those.

    I purchased these.

    GordonMcComb wrote: »
    IOW, these appear to be merely colored PCL, and not just an inert dye colorant. Cheap enough to find out, though...

    I'm not so sure. While I wouldn't be surprised if most of the pellet is plastic, the pellets look darker than one would want to use in a 3D printer.

    pRS1-17489394w345.jpg

    I think the green in particular looks like it's a concentrated color.

    I ordered a set to try.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-05-31 19:25
    Let us know how it all works out. Technology in plastics has sure come a long ways. I use to work at a Plastic Injection Molding facility. Took some doing to melt down the color mix for plastics.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-05-31 20:14
    Like with 3D printing you add these to the white pellets. Unless you want a really dark color, in which case you could use the pellets by themselves. They must be of a compatible material because they're so bulky.

    As for why they are on clearance, this is the same company trying to close over a quarter of their stores. Let's just say they've made some product choices that haven't been a resounding success for their market. How could a chain that wants to sell mobile phones to millennials also sell 3D printers in an already over-saturated market? In the past RS has succeeded when they were among the first to offer something into the mainstream (CB, personal computers, cordless phones). But I digress...

    For those wanting to stay with PCL, do keep in mind that it's biodegradable, exposure to both air and water. This shouldn't be too much of a problem for most robots, but it's not the stuff for an underwater UAV.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-06-09 21:22
    I had the Radio Shack colored plastic "shipped to store" and I went to pick it up today.

    I was initially disappointed at how small the containers were but finding some U Mold for 90% off cheered me up.

    I plan to "dilute" the colors and decided to try a 10% color batch to start. I counted out ten of the little green pellets and weighed them. The ten pellets totaled 0.1327g. I added 1.1981g of white Polymorph. This made a 9.97% green mixture. This was as close as I could get to the exact 10% value without cutting the small Polymorph pellets.

    I placed ten green pellets to the side of the container to show the amount of green pellets inside the container (most of which were under the white pellets).

    attachment.php?attachmentid=109054&d=1402373393

    The green pellets seemed to melt just fine. They kind of felt like crayons but the green didn't mark my hand as I mixed it in. As you can see a 10% mixture is still darker than one would want to use in most projects.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=109055&d=1402373396

    The colors purchased from ebay have also arrived. I plan to test them in a similar way to the Radio Shack colors. So far I'm very please with how the Radio Shack colors are looking.

    To melt the Polymorph and colored pellets I used a hot air gun. I'll try the other colors and "dilute" the green even more soon.
    PolymorphGreen140609a.jpg
    661 x 477 - 80K
    PolymorphGreen140609b.jpg
    743 x 396 - 79K
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-06-10 16:50
    I've been using these colors a bit more today and I'm finding I like the Radio Shack colors much better than the ones I purchased off eBay.

    The Radio Shack colors are much easier to combine with Polymorph and are much darker in color.

    I found some color pellets on ebay that look a lot like the Radio Shack pellets.

    $_12.JPG

    At $18.90 delivered they cost a little less than the RS pellets. The picture makes it look like there are more pellets than you'd get from RS but the ebay pages say each tube contains 3g. I wanted to compare this against the amount of the RS pellets and was surprised I couldn't find any weight information on the RS website.

    I weighed the contents of the red pellet container and found it contained just about 5g of pellets (the weight of the pellets was 4.9828g). If the ebay pellets are the same as the RS pellets then RS is offering them at a much better price.

    I'll upload some photos once I get all the colors mixed in with the Polymorph.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-06-10 17:00
    The main question is: what do they taste like. I'm betting something like this:

    250px-Jujubes-Box-Small.jpg
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2014-06-10 18:40
    Let's just hope the melting point is somewhere north of 98.6F then.

    -Phil
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-06-10 20:58
    When I made things with some colorful polymer clay, the items looked like they should taste good but so far, none of the colored Polymorph looks appetizing.

    Here are the two different blue colors. Both samples are 9.96% color additive by weight.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=109071&d=1402458667

    The tube from ebay is the sample on the left and the sample colored with the Radio Shack pellets is the sample on the right.

    The RS pellets cost 4 times (by weight) as much as the ebay powder but I'm thinking the RS pellets are the better value. I'll need to continue to "dillute" the RS color to see how colors look and how much Polymorph it can color compared to the powder. I'm pretty sure the RS pellets can color at least twice the Polymorph the powder can but I'm not so sure it can color four times as much Polymorph. If the RS pellets can color four times the Polymorph compared with the powder then the RS pellets will clearly be the better buy.

    The RS pellets are much easier to work with. The pellets merge with the Polymorph very easily. The powder from ebay has to be folded into the Polymorph. There isn't any sort of attraction between the powder and the Polymorph to aid in its ability to fuse together. Adding the ebay powder is kind of like mixing fine sand into the Polymorph. The RS pellets are obviously made specifically for this sort of application and work very well.
    PolymorphBlue140610a.jpg
    974 x 427 - 132K
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-06-10 22:17
    I've "diluted" the Radio Shack pellets down to 2.5% (in Polymorph) and the RS pellets at 2.5% looks more saturated than the ebay powder treated Polymorph at 10% concentration. (See edit below.)

    I think Radio Shack wins this round with ebay.

    I've only tested the blue colors thoroughly so far but I strongly recommend anyone reading this who wants to color their Polymorph to use the Radio Shack pellets rather than ebay powder I linked to earlier in the thread.

    I'll post pictures of the treated Polymorph tomorrow.

    Edit: As I was showing my wife the various samples, I found myself doubting my earlier claim about the 2.5% RS pellet Polymorph looking more saturated than the 10% powder Polymorph. I still like the RS colors better but there may be applications where the ebay colors are a good choice. I'll add more detail tomorrow.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-06-17 20:13
    I find it kind of odd that the 10.5 Oz. box is $19.99 yet the 17.63 Oz. box is on clearance for $7.50. I bought the last 2 boxes one local Shack had. The other had none and of course neither of them had anything Parallax on clearance.

    Anyhow, @ Duane Degn, do you just heat yours with a heat gun or oven? I can not see using water as it seems to me that would make for a big sloppy mess. I have a heat gun on my rework station and I also have an old toaster oven I use for drying painted parts, etc.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-06-17 21:08
    NWCCTV wrote: »
    I find it kind of odd that the 10.5 Oz. box is $19.99 yet the 17.63 Oz. box is on clearance for $7.50. I bought the last 2 boxes one local Shack had. The other had none and of course neither of them had anything Parallax on clearance.

    Anyhow, @ Duane Degn, do you just heat yours with a heat gun or oven? I can not see using water as it seems to me that would make for a big sloppy mess. I have a heat gun on my rework station and I also have an old toaster oven I use for drying painted parts, etc.

    Yeah, even at the RS website the 500g box is less expensive than the 300g box. When I picked up the colored pellets at our local RS, they only had one 500g box and it was 90% off.

    Hot water works well for melting this stuff. It's not as messy as one would think. The water squishes out between the pellets so it's not hard to get the plastic reasonably dry.

    The heat gun I use was made to shrink Monokote type covering on RC airplanes. I think the hot air from a rework station would be too hot to use with this plastic.

    It's possible to melt Polymorph in an oven but generally ovens don't have temperature settings low enough keep from burning the Polymorph. I don't think it's a good idea to get the Polymorph above the boiling temperature of water (100C).

    One thing I like about using a heat gun is the Polymorph sticks to things better when the object you're attempting to apply it to is also hot. As I mentioned in the aluminum wallet thread, I used Polymorph for strain relief and insulation in low profile connectors.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=108783&d=1400646724

    There wasn't enough room for normal connectors so I made some using sections of machine pin headers and Polymorph. I also used Polymorph to insulate wires and PCBs.

    I recently made a three axis gimbal using Polymorph and four servos. IMO, Polymorph is one of those great materials which makes prototyping easier.

    I have some additional Polymorph links in post #1 of this thread.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-06-17 21:54
    So what is a good working temp for it? My rework station is adjustable and I believe the lowest temp on it is like 90 degrees Celsius. I did not buy any color yet. I want to make sure I am able to work with it well enough before spending the money on the color.

    BTW: Nice work. I hope I can get mine to turn out as good!!! I am working on designing something to hold 4 of the LED Matrixes: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/151868-Cheap-8x8-LED-Displays
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-06-17 22:20
    Which EBay colors did you buy?? I see there are a few different sellers from China and England. I think I might try the stuff from England. Seems cheap so I might get what I pay for but worth a try.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-06-17 22:55
    NWCCTV wrote: »
    Which EBay colors did you buy?? I see there are a few different sellers from China and England. I think I might try the stuff from England. Seems cheap so I might get what I pay for but worth a try.

    The first link in post #12 is to the seller I used. I haven't tried the stuff from the UK. It does look like it's selling for a good price. I really like you can purchase the individual colors. I'll probably try a few of their colors.

    Polymorph melts at about 50 degrees C. I think 90C might be low enough not to burn the plastic.

    Once you've melted some Polymorph It's tempting to make into a big block thinking it will be easier to store that way. Don't! It takes a long time to melt a big block of Polymorph. I always try to shape any extra Polymorph into thin sheets or strips to make it easier to melt it again.

    I notice the UK seller shows cold water being used to cool the Polymorph in their video. I often keep some canned air (for dusting) nearby when using Polymorph. I hold the canned air upside down and spray the Polymorph with the cold liquid to speed up the cooling process. I'm not sure what this does to the strength of the Polymorph but it still seems pretty strong after being cooled quickly.
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