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Ethernet challenge — Parallax Forums

Ethernet challenge

Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
edited 2014-05-12 18:57 in Propeller 1
How low can the cost be for a propeller ethernet server?

Wired connection (not wifi) and we want to detect a switch being on or off. Upload to a web server. No complex web page needed so no SD card required.

Ok, start with some industrial controllers - there are quite a few that are perfect for the job... and cost $500-$600 each.

We can do this with a PC. Or a laptop/netbook. But this takes power/space and it would be silly to keep a PC running to detect if the fridge light stays on *grin*

Arduino? Can we mention it here? ;) Super simple setup with a one page tutorial http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/WebServer If we buy this on the arduino site it is maybe $60-$70. Shop around on ebay and you can get the board plus the ethernet shield including shipping for as low as $32. So lets set this as the price to beat.

Ethernet has got cheaper. Wiznet seems to be $10-$20. ENC28J60 boards have come down more - $3.90 for a board including shipping http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-ENC28J60-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Module-For-51-AVR-STM32-LPC-2014-/281282799394?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item417dc2e722&_uhb=1

Gadget Gangster have a board with the DIP version of the chip http://gadgetgangster.com/find-a-project/56?projectnum=349

So... propeller $8, sundry xtal caps etc maybe say $16 and a $3.90 board, and with 10+PCBs low as $5 or less, it should be possible to get the price under $32.

Software - there is a driver on the obex but the link to Harrison Pham's site appears to be broken http://obex.parallax.com/object/222

Could the propeller be the cheapest web server? Are there other options?

Comments

  • D.PD.P Posts: 790
    edited 2014-05-06 18:37
    Dr_Acula wrote: »
    How low can the cost be for a propeller ethernet server?

    Wired connection (not wifi) and we want to detect a switch being on or off. Upload to a web server. No complex web page needed so no SD card required.

    Ok, start with some industrial controllers - there are quite a few that are perfect for the job... and cost $500-$600 each.

    We can do this with a PC. Or a laptop/netbook. But this takes power/space and it would be silly to keep a PC running to detect if the fridge light stays on *grin*

    Arduino? Can we mention it here? ;) Super simple setup with a one page tutorial http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/WebServer If we buy this on the arduino site it is maybe $60-$70. Shop around on ebay and you can get the board plus the ethernet shield including shipping for as low as $32. So lets set this as the price to beat.

    Ethernet has got cheaper. Wiznet seems to be $10-$20. ENC28J60 boards have come down more - $3.90 for a board including shipping http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-ENC28J60-Ethernet-LAN-Network-Module-For-51-AVR-STM32-LPC-2014-/281282799394?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item417dc2e722&_uhb=1

    Gadget Gangster have a board with the DIP version of the chip http://gadgetgangster.com/find-a-project/56?projectnum=349

    So... propeller $8, sundry xtal caps etc maybe say $16 and a $3.90 board, and with 10+PCBs low as $5 or less, it should be possible to get the price under $32.

    Software - there is a driver on the obex but the link to Harrison Pham's site appears to be broken http://obex.parallax.com/object/222

    Could the propeller be the cheapest web server? Are there other options?

    Get a spinnertte, load Tachyon and Extend.fth: FTP, HTTP, Telnet included. Plus you get all the source :)

    Job done, next
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2014-05-06 19:49
    Spinneret is a very nice board - I bought one a few years ago. But it is $59.99 plus shipping and I'm wondering if there are cheaper options? Some of that would be the cost of someone soldering surface mount parts. I might have a go designing a board with a DIP propeller chip - I reckon it might be possible to get the cost a bit less.
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2014-05-06 21:13
    Dr_Acula wrote: »
    Spinneret is a very nice board - I bought one a few years ago. But it is $59.99 plus shipping and I'm wondering if there are cheaper options? Some of that would be the cost of someone soldering surface mount parts. I might have a go designing a board with a DIP propeller chip - I reckon it might be possible to get the cost a bit less.

    The Spinneret uses the older W5100 chip but I am using the W5200 with the Prop and am running a very nice WEB/FTP/TELNET serve along with multiple FAT32 file and virtual memory. I will be upgrading to the W5500 and WIZnet have an inexpensive module for this but I will be making up a minimal PCB to show off the Wiznet and Parallax chips. When P2 is available then I will also have that too.
  • FredBlaisFredBlais Posts: 370
    edited 2014-05-06 21:28
    I would be interested with the project of making the cheapest Propeller node. It would be neat to make this open source and esay to get the PCB on OSH Park.
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2014-05-06 21:29
    That sounds interesting Peter - I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2014-05-06 21:57
    Dare I say the cheapest is probably a WR703N ($20-25 eBay) and a switch wired to the pcb. Includes power supply (US plug tho') and nice little box. Runs *nix. Lots of hacked software for it.
    I am looking at using the serial and an I/O pin for reset to interface to the prop. Has Ethernet, WiFi and USB.
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2014-05-06 22:18
    Dr_Acula wrote: »
    That sounds interesting Peter - I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

    I forgot too that I had already designed an Ethernet node pcb to fit in a small case with 8 inputs or outputs when basically mostly just needs to read smoke alarms etc. I will take another look at that project and see about some PCBs. The W5500 costs around $4, add a magjack and a Prop etc and there you go.
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2014-05-07 00:22
    @Cluso re WR703N. I've been using routers reflashed with ddwrt to extend my wifi network. Yagi antennas and repeater bridges etc. How many "real world" pins would a hacked router have? One is good, but many pins is better...

    Spinneret has quite a few real world pins. The $32 arduino combo also has quite a few pins, and has an advantage to the propeller in that those can be A to D pins (I see on another thread the new prop chip will have these too).

    @Peter,
    The W5500 costs around $4, add a magjack and a Prop etc and there you go.
    I like that. Once the cost comes down to tens of dollars or less, it becomes possible to automate all sorts of things.

    One technical question - some of the sites I looked at mention MAC addresses. They say that if you have one device just use a generic address. But with multiple devices, they say you have to pay someone. How does that work? If you built two boards and they had the same MAC address but different IP addresses would there be problems?
  • Mike GMike G Posts: 2,702
    edited 2014-05-07 03:22
    If you built two boards and they had the same MAC address but different IP addresses would there be problems?
    The MAC address must be unique to the network node.

    Controlling and monitoring stuff over the internet with a propeller has been done many times over. See the Spinneret forum or Peter's work.

    As for component costs, just do a little internet surfing.
  • ManAtWorkManAtWork Posts: 2,176
    edited 2014-05-07 03:55
    I use the following combination for my CNC controller:
    P8X32A $4.67
    ENC28J60 $2.11
    Magjack $2.42
    24AA02E48 $0.21
    I buy them in 1000 quantities so I get a good discount and the BOM for the whole PCB is ~$10
    The EEPROM from microchip has a preprogrammed unique MAC address. It is much easier to handle than to program a different file to each EEPROM manually. The "thumper" internet radio project comes with a full TCP/IP stack and HTML server source code plus driver for the ENC28J60.
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 10,193
    edited 2014-05-07 04:57
    Dr_Acula wrote: »
    @Cluso re WR703N. I've been using routers reflashed with ddwrt to extend my wifi network. Yagi antennas and repeater bridges etc. How many "real world" pins would a hacked router have? One is good, but many pins is better...

    Spinneret has quite a few real world pins. The $32 arduino combo also has quite a few pins, and has an advantage to the propeller in that those can be A to D pins (I see on another thread the new prop chip will have these too).


    @Peter, I like that. Once the cost comes down to tens of dollars or less, it becomes possible to automate all sorts of things.

    One technical question - some of the sites I looked at mention MAC addresses. They say that if you have one device just use a generic address. But with multiple devices, they say you have to pay someone. How does that work? If you built two boards and they had the same MAC address but different IP addresses would there be problems?

    As mentioned there is the 24AA02E48 EEPROM with MAC address solution (in addition to the Prop's EEPROM) but I am using an MCP79411 RTC with MAC address or simply generating a 32-bit random number on the first cold start and then appending an unused OUI of $02FFxx to complete the MAC address. These parameters and others currently assume you are using a 64KB EEPROM and uses the top of that to maintain this. I will make my pcb available as soon as I prototype it but the server and file software work really well. I can even talk to Forth over Telnet and write code etc.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2014-05-07 08:01
    This is probably the cheapest Ethernet board at $19.99:

    http://www.ti.com/tool/ek-tm4c1294xl

    I got one recently. It was very easy to get it on-line with the demo software.
  • dMajodMajo Posts: 855
    edited 2014-05-08 11:05
    Dr_Acula,

    This is all you need http://tibbo.com/products/modules/minimo/em500.html
    They are very easy to program and reliable.

    ... for a switch detection ... when I say all it means all, no propeller needed at all.
    For higher requirements I found them to be a nice complement to the prop.
  • abecedarianabecedarian Posts: 312
    edited 2014-05-08 18:25
    I have one of those TI boards and when the peripherals it provides beyond Ethernet connectivity are considered, I believe nothing P8X32A could touch it.
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2014-05-12 08:44
    Reading 4bits at 50mhz is too fast, but maybe you can write to it (using vga) and set 10Base-T mode-only and then maybe Prop1 can keep up?
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Micrel/KSZ8081RNDCA-TR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuXKgZRMPEonetHRE70qVWI%252buOhwc2oVl4%3d

    SPI version if Prop1 can not handling doing the mac:
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Micrel/KSZ8851SNLI-TR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuXKgZRMPEonetHRE70qVWIQXQkVWA38WQ%3d
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2014-05-12 18:57
    DIR505L + Prop is what I am currently using.
    DIR505L is like RPI in that its a full blown linux system, but adds ethernet AND wifi, and cost $25 - $35 US, in a nice plastic case.

    We can pop off the power board (the part with the wall plugs) and I THINK we can hook it up to those cheap USB power bank and run all afternoon. But I did n't get that far yet.

    If one talks sysnchronous serial from DIR505L (or any linux) communication os about clock speed on the prop. Bonus is that since we have to write the serial driver on both sides anyway, we can ensure that the comms are done right (whatever we decide at the time).

    If wifi in not mandatory it might not be the cheapest solution.

    HC05 allows communication to the command line via bluetooth using a smart phone.

    My plan it to run off the USB powerbank, but plug into a wall outlet for recharging. Code is not posted yet.
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