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Can' load SimpleIDE in Linux Mint, revisited. — Parallax Forums

Can' load SimpleIDE in Linux Mint, revisited.

PaulPaul Posts: 263
edited 2014-04-28 10:08 in Propeller 1
Just read Loopy Byteloose's thread.

Background: I'm also running Mint.(64bit) I can install SimpleIDE v0-8-5 ok but can't install SimpleIDE v0-9-45 from Learn.Parallax.Com.

OK, so, It appears to install just fine but NOTHING happens when I enter "simpleide" at the command line. Even if I cd into /opt/simpleide/bin and enter "SimpleIDE"... crickets.

Everything looks to 755 that should be. As far as I can tell, LoopyByteloop's solution was to dump Mint and run Debian? Maybe I misunderstood him somewhere. Not sure where to go from here.

Ps. I'm not getting Chinese characters anywhere. (that would be weird,eh?)

Comments

  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2014-04-16 17:01
    I assume this page is the one you used. http://learn.parallax.com/propeller-c-set-simpleide/linux

    That is a 32 bit version, and will require some libraries for 64-bit use. For example $ sudo apt-get install ia32-libs

    There is a small type-o in the INSTALL.txt (./simpleide should not be used to run the program) otherwise it should work. Use the instructions here.
    Paul wrote: »
    Even if I cd into /opt/simpleide/bin and enter "SimpleIDE"... crickets.

    Right. That's not how you start it. Please use /usr/bin/simpleide (assuming /usr/bin is in your path, you should be able to type simpleide in any directory assuming you have 32 bit support and followed the instructions link above.

    Paul wrote: »
    Just read Loopy Byteloose's thread.

    Background: I'm also running Mint.(64bit) I can install SimpleIDE v0-8-5 ok but can't install SimpleIDE v0-9-45 from Learn.Parallax.Com.

    OK, so, It appears to install just fine but NOTHING happens when I enter "simpleide" at the command line. Even if I cd into /opt/simpleide/bin and enter "SimpleIDE"... crickets.

    Everything looks to 755 that should be. As far as I can tell, LoopyByteloop's solution was to dump Mint and run Debian? Maybe I misunderstood him somewhere. Not sure where to go from here.

    Ps. I'm not getting Chinese characters anywhere. (that would be weird,eh?)

    I suggest reading Loopy's signature line - it's kind of a disclaimer. His Chinese character problem was a bit innocently self-inflicted as I recall ... he lives in Taiwan.

    No, you shouldn't have to dump Mint for Debian.

    One of the things on my todo list is to revisit current linux support. Some things in the process got out of control. I'll update this thread when I get to it.
  • PaulPaul Posts: 263
    edited 2014-04-16 19:04
    Bingo! That looks like it fixed it. The instructions from your link worked great. So I'm executing /usr/bin/simpleide instead of a script in my PWD. That makes sense.
    sudo apt-get install ia32-libs
    I never would have figured this one out. Wow, that was a lot of little files!, lol. I had a feeling there was a 32bit vs 64bit mismatch somewhere.
    ... he lives in Taiwan.
    Yeah, I got that.
    I'll update this thread when I get to it.
    I'm sure you're busy on everything else. I've got to admit that my little Linux 64bit setup is probably .001% of the PC's out in the wild. Thanks for taking the time.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-04-17 11:20
    Hi all, you are talking about me.

    I have Linux Mint, but it is 32bit, not the 64bit OS. You may require a 64 bit version of SimpleIDE, or maybe not. Heater got everything confused in that thread. Jazzed helped me out.

    The thing about installing SimpleIDE is that you have to run the setup.sh as a SU. But the actual installation will not run at all under a SU account. You have log in as a regular user and then use it.

    SimpleIDE is the ONLY Linux application that I have ever run into that will not allow the Superuser to run it, once it is installed.

    Also after you get SimpleIDE running, you have to plug in a Propeller to get /dev/ttyUSB0 present and go back into SU to add yourself to the group rights for the 'dialout' group.

    It isn't hard. But for some reason, I have to use simpleide.sh to start the program... not the Icon. That seems to be because I just installed in a sub-directory of my Desktop, not in /usr/bin/simpeide/...

    I guess that I now am officially shamed into reinstalling my SimpleIDE to the correct directory.

    And NO, I did not dump Mint and install Debian. I successfully installed SimpleIDE on two computers -- one Mint, the other Debian.

    +++++++++++++++++++
    I hate to admit that the Chinese character problem was a sloppy migration from Ubuntu 12.04 to Mint. I had the Ubuntu working in both Chinese and English. Mint is no Asian language support. I did clean all that up and it has NOTHING, absolutely nothing to do with the integrity of SimpleIDE.

    Oh, and if you read my personal information.. I do admit to mild misanthropy upon occasion. Heater and I debate about nearly everything.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-04-17 15:59
    Loopy,
    Heater got everything confused in that thread
    Oh, thanks.
    SimpleIDE is the ONLY Linux application that I have ever run into that will not allow the Superuser to run it, once it is installed.
    That's amazing. Ever since 1996 or so, with different Linux distros I have been faced with this:
    # kdiff3
    QFSFileEngine::open: No file name specified
    No protocol specified
    kdiff3: cannot connect to X server :0
    
    kind of thing when trying to run any GUI application as root. The last line is the important part there.


    How do you manage to avoid that?


    I would never have expected SimpleIDE to run as root so easily.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-04-18 06:12
    Heater. wrote: »
    Loopy,

    Oh, thanks.

    That's amazing. Ever since 1996 or so, with different Linux distros I have been faced with this:
    # kdiff3
    QFSFileEngine::open: No file name specified
    No protocol specified
    kdiff3: cannot connect to X server :0
    
    kind of thing when trying to run any GUI application as root. The last line is the important part there.


    How do you manage to avoid that?


    I would never have expected SimpleIDE to run as root so easily.

    How do I manage to avoid that? Simple ignorance combined with inexperience.
    Of course, I am trying to learn... so the last line seems to imply that some things just are incompatible with X server's GUI.


    ++++++++++++++
    I pretty much have concluded that by not installing the SimpleIDE in /usr/bin/simpleide/ and installing it in /home/george/APPS/... (where I have installed other stuff); I got the unusal start behavior.

    Why do I prefer /home/george/APPS over /usr/bin/simpleide/.. ??????????
    I occasionally dump my /root partition which includes /usr and retain my /home partition when I get inspired to change my Linux OS to another distribution. Also, I do limited backups of /home partitions and generally don't bother with saving Root.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-04-18 06:38
    Loopy,
    Well I never, this works to run simpleide as root on Debian:
    $ xhost local:root
    $ su
    ... enter password...
    # simpleide
    Next question is, why would anyone want to be running apps like this as root?
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-04-18 08:07
    @heater
    Well, I did not have group rights to /dev/ttyUSB0 and SU does. The SimpleIDE installation doesn't really go into specifics for Linux install (or at least didn't when I last looked). I suppose all this stuff is rather automatic in Apple or MS.

    I wonder why anyone would use kdiif3 as it is a bit of a challenge to use. But that's another story.

    I still have to run my Minicom in SU in order to use /dev/ttyUSB0
    For the casual user or the user that prefers to keep dialout group secure ... not attaching group rights to individual users seems like it might be a good idea.

    Or you might just call me lazy.

    Next question?
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2014-04-18 08:19
    Well, I did not have group rights to /dev/ttyUSB0 and SU does.
    Oy vey.

    $ sudo adduser $USER dialout
    Log out, then log in again.

    Other commands can be used.

    http://jesin.tk/fix-serial-port-permission-denied-errors-linux/

    For the casual user or the user that prefers to keep dialout group secure ... not attaching group rights to individual users seems like it might be a good idea.
    LOL. Being root all the time is more secure?
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-04-19 11:23
    Loopy,
    I wonder why anyone would use kdiif3 as it is a bit of a challenge to use. But that's another story.
    I love another story.

    What is so challenging about "kdiff3 oldFile newFile"?

    kdiff3 imediatly shows me both files side by side and highlights any differences.

    This is great when I want to review changes, especially if they come from other people or is something I did last week and can't fully remember any more (Where did I break my program?).

    Not only that it allows me to select changes and move them across from one file to the other, no typing required.

    kdiff3 has proven invaluable many times.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-04-25 02:04
    @Heater
    After looking at it, kdiff3 does seem very worthwhile. Unlike Apple and MS, Linux provides a lot of Unix utilities for free and this is one of them.

    My concern about complexity in kdiff3 is that it will also compare 3 files, and when you go from a simple comparison of 2 files to a comparison of 3 files, everything gets much more complex.


    When you go looking for the same in iOS or Windows, somebody wants to sell it to you as an independent application for $$$$.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-04-25 02:32
    To be honest I have never used the 3 way diff/merge capability of kdiff3 or any such similar tool.

    I have a hard enough time sorting out the differences between two files :)
  • dgatelydgately Posts: 1,630
    edited 2014-04-25 16:24
    Unlike Apple and MS, Linux provides a lot of Unix utilities for free and this is one of them.
    When you go looking for the same in iOS or Windows, somebody wants to sell it to you as an independent application for $$$$.

    Wha? Apple provides many actual Unix utilities for free in Mac OS X. You may need to download XCode for some utilities (and that's free), but many are shipped with the OS. diff is a command-line tool, but Apple provides the FileMerge app, as well.


    dgately
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-04-27 09:41
    Hmm. That actually makes sense as Apple is a UNIX based system.
    Windows certainly doesn't provide much in comparison to Linux.

    In all honestly, I have never used or owned an Apple product. I was just going on reports that the software is expensive. I guess anything is better than MS in this aspect.

    Linux has BusyBox, which is pretty much a compact version of the bulk of core Unix utiltiies. But there are a lot more.

    I suppose that some could be compiled on an Apple from Linux if not available. But Linux does have GUI version of utilities that are plentiful and free. I have no idea is these tend to cost someting on an Apple OS.

    http://busybox.net/about.html
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2014-04-27 10:40
    Oy vey.

    $ sudo adduser $USER dialout
    Log out, then log in again.

    How come this doesn't happen automatically as part of the install process? Is there ever going to be a case where this SHOULDN'T happen by default when installing simpleIDE? As I understand it there is no way to get to the USB virtual comport without membership in dialout group.
    I pretty much have concluded that by not installing the SimpleIDE in /usr/bin/simpleide/ and installing it in /home/george/APPS/... (where I have installed other stuff); I got the unusal start behavior.

    Doesn't the tool (or the author) know where the software is supposed to be installed? I had a bunch of issues in the past with software installs on linux, the "instructions" would say "install it where ever you want" and then would not like where it was installed. Asking for help resulted in answers like "You are supposed to already know that". Not a good strategy, the people that have to ask could not possibly know in advance; this eliminates most new users.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-04-27 10:55
    Well, SimpleIDE is rather terse about Linux installation.

    Configuring the USB port could be done in a shell script, easily. But just telling the new user what to do is easy too.

    I do prefer to install software in my /home directory, but that is a personal configuration choice. My /home directory is on a separate partition for security and to allow me to rebuild a Linux installation without touching my personal stuff.

    It seems that SimpleIDE is installed in /opt/simpleIDE/.... even though I have a copy of the Binary in my /home/george/Desktop/SimpleIDE. The shell program starts the binary in the /opt/SimpleIDE/...

    Overall, I am happy. SimpleIDE is working nicely. I just started it with the simpleide.sh (I mouse click on that rather than the simpleIDE binary).

    +++++++++++
    I have grown weary of expecting standardization in anything..... I just learn to work with what is.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-04-27 13:50
    I like to have packages like propgcc, simplide placed into /opt. Along with my firefox, google chrome, sublime, emscripten, clang etc etc etc.

    These things are not part Debian. And they are not me either. My home is full of my stuff and gets backed up, synched here and there and so on. Those packages I don't worry about backing up. If they ever disappear I can always fetch and/or build them again. They are constantly being updated anyway.

    Also what if I have more than one user on the machine that want's to use that stuff?

    As for the serial port permissions. An app install should not be messing with that. Such security policy issues are not it's business.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-04-28 09:23
    Yeah, I do understand the Pro and Con of having SimpleIDE in /opt.
    But it doesn't fit my personal preferences. It is nothiing serious. I can live with it. It just seems that with programible devices, everyone will do something a bit differently.

    As long as I can retain my own work in my /home... everything is okay. I just backup that one partition as a complete image with 'dd' and more requently with 'rsynch'.

    And I do see that in a school setting with a share computer, installing to /opt/simpleide/... is a better solution as the students don't have administrative rights that might corrupt the installation.

    ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, I would much rather have the Linux installation the way it is than to have a long and complicated set of instructions. New users never seem to read the long and complex instructions.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2014-04-28 10:08
    ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, I would much rather have the Linux installation the way it is that to have a long and complicated set of instructions. New users never seem to read the long and complex instructions.

    New users never seem to read any instructions. ;-)

    I suppose we should add an "This is the way it will work, is this acceptable Y/N" question to setup. That way if you answer no, the application won't be installed.

    Heater we are revisiting the way the SimpleIDE Workspace is being handled this week. We should be able to avoid annoying you with that ;-)
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