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Why there are no major brand Li-Ion rechareables on marked, besides 18650 ? — Parallax Forums

Why there are no major brand Li-Ion rechareables on marked, besides 18650 ?

CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
edited 2014-03-18 17:43 in General Discussion
We all know major Li-Ion battery manufacturers such as Panasonic, Sanyo, LG Chem, Samsung, Sony, etc. etc. However, on the mass market, I've noticed two very interesting facts:

1. Neither digikey, mouser, newark or any other tier1 distributors will have even 18650 cells. They only restricted to low power li-ion ones. Any regulations? then why they don't apply to bgmicro, tenergy or other shady sellers?

2. Even if you can get, 18650 is your only choice. 18500 might be somewhat available, but other sizes - no chance to get from major brands (and they do manufacture, for example, Minolta NP-800 battery houses two 14500 cells made by panasonic). 14500, 18350, RCR123A and others are only available from noname, fake capacity chinese "manufacturers".

Any ideas?

Comments

  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2014-03-16 11:46
    I've been told that all lithium batteries come from just two or three manufactures, and are just rebrandeded. Sort of like ICs. But I can't prove it and don't have anything to back it up, so I'm interested in an authoritative answer as well.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2014-03-16 12:26
    Yes, only very few - Sony, Sanyo, LG Chem, Samsung, Panasonic, ATL, BAK are big brand names. The question is, why only 18650 -s on sale, while they do full spectrum?
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2014-03-16 13:57
    What is the shelf life of an 18650?

    They are not a popular item, can explode, and probably an insane minimum volume to sell for a profit, then you have the competition. I would shy away from it too lol.
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2014-03-16 18:34
    The question is, why only 18650 -s on sale, while they do full spectrum?
    What other sizes are there?
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2014-03-16 20:43
    Cells sorted by accurence (personal experience, might not include all available uses)

    18650 - used in laptops, flashlights, video camera batteries (Sony F series)
    18500 - used in thermostats, video camera batteries (Sony FM, QM series)
    16340 - used in video camera batteries (Panasonic CGR series)
    14500 (AA size) - widely used in flashlights, digital camera (sony-nikon-canon) batteries
    CR123A - most popular in flashlights, film cameras, used as backup for clock in industrial devices.
    Huge selection of prismatic cells, used mainly in mobile phone, digital video and still camera batteries.
  • evanhevanh Posts: 15,932
    edited 2014-03-17 04:38
    It's as simple as there was never any intention to sell the basic cells to consumers. It's basically buyer beware when it comes to the lithium-cobolt based cells, they're easily mismanaged without protection. Major brands aren't into selling to consumers in this manner.

    Even the various lithium-phosphates aren't just handed out as branded, and they're way more forgiving of mistreatment.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-03-17 07:03
    Must be an American thing... I can buy all of these in Kaohsiung, Taiwan. Too many choices if you ask me.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2014-03-17 07:25
    Yes, it is certainly American thing. For example, DeWalt, an American company, produces both NiCd and NiMh cell based batteries for their cordless tools. NiMh ones are only sold outside USA :)
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2014-03-17 17:18
    The UltraFire 16340 Li-Ion cells I buy from Asian sources are certainly not "fake capacity." All the cells I've purchased have exhibited full advertised capacity (1200mAh) and a very low self-discharge rate. There are also some inexpensive yet excellent chargers available for this cell. I don't know what else one might want from them except local availability. But who wants to pay 3X?
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2014-03-18 08:16
    The 18650 cell is used in the Tesla - Like 7,000 18650's per car battery system. That's why we use them in the Lion Charger Power Packs- ready availability and reasonably inexpensive.

    -MattG
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-03-18 09:30
    Hmmm.. so if a car theif were to steal a Tesla, the theif would have 7000 cells to sell on Ebay.

    I have the 18650s, some 14500, and another that is half the length of the 18650. All work in the same charger. But I am sure the charge is NOT UL approved.

    Could it be that the charger is the bottleneck due to UL approval, so the cells are not sold individually?
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2014-03-18 11:33
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?111513-How-many-chargers-have-UL-Listed-Symbol-Yours

    UL does not have anything to do with low-voltage DC devices, so you shouldn't expect to find anything on the charger itself.
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2014-03-18 16:59
    Matt Gilliland wrote: »
    The 18650 cell is used in the Tesla - Like 7,000 18650's per car battery system. That's why we use them in the Lion Charger Power Packs- ready availability and reasonably inexpensive.

    -MattG

    Don't they also use them on all of the hybrids?
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2014-03-18 17:43
    Buck Rogers wrote: »
    Don't they also use them on all of the hybrids?

    Tesla is unique in that they use the many smaller, off the shelf (or almost) cells. The other manufactures prefer to make larger, custom cells.
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